From a buyers perspective. Some suggestions for HSA.

[ARRV]

While we appreciate the cerdo's posts and positions, we simply wish he had 10,000 more brothers with similar tastes.

This is the only answer in reality.

I am sure everyone must realise that the business must be run to make a profit (inherent in the definition of business) - and that this necessarily has unpalatable results from time to time. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on the context) in modern capitalist societies cash is king and tradition and loyalty always take a back seat to that. Take professional sport for instance, let alone other commercial enterprises where no prisoners are taken and close friends can be sacked from employment for the greater good of the company (the dollar).

If in the minority of the cigar buying market and you are concerned about being rolled (pun?), then I guess you have to buy 10,000 more cigars of the types you like before possibly enforcing demands.

But perhaps some other options for HSA are to niche market and sell. Maybe that is what they consider they are already doing with the smaller RG sized cigars. I would have thought that this forum provides a perfect niche market with a retailer/distributor already in place to utilise to sell to that market. Particularly so in circumstances where one would think that the ban on smoking will bite soon and casual sales of cigars may drop.

Apart from the bitter irony of ROI dictating the policies of a tobacco manufacturer based in a communist country, the reality is that unless you match the cash made in other markets you cannot dictate policy. Of course that does not mean that one cannot persuade, cajole and plead. But cash remains king.

The only other option I could think of would be to wait until the embargo folds, then with the US cash looming large the communist goverment will fold (reinvent itself) and then once property rights are established buy your own tobacco farm, build a factory and roll whatever the hell you want. That is the ultimate dream.

[Mr. Japan]

I've loved reading this post , especially the reply's of Mr.ROI.

Do you smoke Hoyo du Roi?

[anacostiakat]

Very good post Harry (and others as well).

It is imperative that a sustainable product go to market and as we all know branding and loyalty are only sustainable as offshoots.

Construction has clearly improved from the "bad" years and more so over the past two years. There is still a ways to go though.

As in the liquor industry HSA has to recognize the tiering of it's products to the different markets. Otherwise they will lose a market segment.

An example would be if I am buying something ( ) and research the different places I can procure this product I might find a spread of pricing. Now, personally, if I find a best price but the place I have dealt with before is competitive then I will most likely go with the place I have done business with before for the obvious reasons. If not, and the spread between the two sources is large enough then I might be tempted to purchase from the lowest.

So one aspect.

If I am a collector/connosseur then I am a different class of buyer. HSA or anyone for that matter would not be smart to kick a market segment to the curb by realigning product lines to the point of alienating their customers.

[Punch Joe]

Well, if that has blown my letter to the boys at H SA, they can **** off too!

Same, bro. This is not an UFC championship and there´s no Cindy Crawford watching you from the seat. I would be happy if we could swap positions/ jobs for one month and see what I have to say after that. Sorry Piggy, but when was your last time in Havana? It´s far more easy to fight a war from the distance, an I really appreciate all the help you can give, I mean it, but nothing like fighting a war from the inside and it´s really killing me out after 7 years of wondering myself where the heck did all the common sense go? I can´t even picture you here, probably you won´t be able to go through different levels of heart attacks while listening to the jerks on the big chair talking about revenues at all cost! Never ever a comment was said better (at all cost) After a week you probably would be tendering your resignation since no one can cope with this for long time. I bet you´d drive all the way to Reno on your Harley without looking back. Plus, we can switch wages for a while, (can´t be more Hilarious) I can give you a daily quota of fresh cigars right from my friends at the factory, you will be allowed to participate at the weekly tasting, I think this can work for you and at the same time maintaining your code of ethic, stick to your values and friends, don´t fall in the mindfields of everyday black market, learn to survive without flirting with illegal... Better stay on your chair. I really thank you for your letter (though cathartic at least sincere) just broaden my view from a buyer´s perspective and let me know if someone else form Habanos s.a. type some words out for you. Or just say hello. Or say thanks for your input. Or maybe, you are fuc...right! Let me know, that would brighten my day!!! I can not reply to everyone´s questions since my time and connection to the Website is very limited and I have job to do as well. Pricing, strategies, diversification, expansion, discontinuing are hot topics but I not the only one to answer that.

On the side: I´m not a boy, I have put my cojones on the table more than once, even when 10 out of 12 are against me. But not an easy task and I´m getting older, and not willing power, and watching the things going in diverse directions instead of the right one... and then, one got tired and die. I´m 39 and it´s not my time yet. Please let me know if we are definetely switching jobs to arrange things properly before the embargo/blockade is lifted. Stay well, buddy

[PigFish]

Well, if that has blown my letter to the boys at H SA, they can **** off too!

Same, bro. This is not an UFC championship and there´s no Cindy Crawford watching you from the seat. I would be happy if we could swap positions/ jobs for one month and see what I have to say after that. Sorry Piggy, but when was your last time in Havana? It´s far more easy to fight a war from the distance, an I really appreciate all the help you can give, I mean it, but nothing like fighting a war from the inside and it´s really killing me out after 7 years of wondering myself where the heck did all the common sense go? I can´t even picture you here, probably you won´t be able to go through different levels of heart attacks while listening to the jerks on the big chair talking about revenues at all cost! Never ever a comment was said better (at all cost) After a week you probably would be tendering your resignation since no one can cope with this for long time. I bet you´d drive all the way to Reno on your Harley without looking back. Plus, we can switch wages for a while, (can´t be more Hilarious) I can give you a daily quota of fresh cigars right from my friends at the factory, you will be allowed to participate at the weekly tasting, I think this can work for you and at the same time maintaining your code of ethic, stick to your values and friends, don´t fall in the mindfields of everyday black market, learn to survive without flirting with illegal... Better stay on your chair. I really thank you for your letter (though cathartic at least sincere) just broaden my view from a buyer´s perspective and let me know if someone else form Habanos s.a. type some words out for you. Or just say hello. Or say thanks for your input. Or maybe, you are fuc...right! Let me know, that would brighten my day!!! I can not reply to everyone´s questions since my time and connection to the Website is very limited and I have job to do as well. Pricing, strategies, diversification, expansion, discontinuing are hot topics but I not the only one to answer that.

On the side: I´m not a boy, I have put my cojones on the table more than once, even when 10 out of 12 are against me. But not an easy task and I´m getting older, and not willing power, and watching the things going in diverse directions instead of the right one... and then, one got tired and die. I´m 39 and it´s not my time yet. Please let me know if we are definetely switching jobs to arrange things properly before the embargo/blockade is lifted. Stay well, buddy

I guess because of translation I don't know if was scalded or agreed with!!! Perhaps someone can help me out here. If my ranting has offended any or all of you, please forgive me.

PJ, I am not here to fight with the Cuban people and that includes you. Do you want to know what is really interesting... this is not my fight at all? That's right, the fact that a consumer must "stand up for" a product that he pays for is preposterous! Okay... call me an arrogant pig! I am one arrogant pig who happens to buy and enjoy some cigars; cigars that come from your homeland. I truly love cigars. I truly love Cuban cigars but with no offense meant to you my friend I am not Cuban and this is not a life or death struggle for me, just a passionate calling. I am really nothing more than a ******* consumer albeit a passionate one who enjoys a product produced by you and your countrymen.

Perhaps when I openly addressed H SA I offended you. My crime is one of a passionate call, not a personal insult to you, unless of course you are personally responsible for my favorite cigars being cancelled. Are you? If not and you took it personally please accept my sincerest apology. The jab about the hats was one pointed at my friend Rob and to a broader extent the bureaucracy of assholes that most of us are compelled to deal with in our lives.

PJ I never said that you were at fault for some of my favorite cigars being cancelled but I am asking you now. Are you? I took a methodical approach to indicating that I am passionate about the subject. I am not a speculator nor a spectator, I am in the game and vote for my favorite players when I spend my money. I did not produce bank receipts but I have shared pictures of cigars that have been stated to have little, no or untimely ROI(s) as products; products that I purchase and that I consume. I have stood up and taken a stand for "minority" products against the trends, against the odds and have invested my time freely to support anyone who wishes to use my voice as an argument. I did not get paid for this writing and I have goodly amount of my time, time valuable to me, invested in it.

I assume by your post that you work at H SA or in some form of the tobacco industry in Cuba. I am not here to argue about the complexities of your job or what you get compensated for it. I live in a free society so it is my choice what I do for a living. I hope that you have the same freedom and I will pray to my God for you if you don't and would ask it of me... that is the best that I can do. I am not here to start political discussions about Cuba, free societies, communist societies, fee lunch, medical plans, the Democratic party, George Bush, Obama, Castro, the Catholic church or any other divisive talking points I just want to talk about cigars.

My favorite cigars are produce on the island of Cuba. Currently there are nameless, faceless individuals on that island and elsewhere around the world making decisions about products that I like and have proven to like by the fact that I have purchased them. They are cancelling some of them and I think it is a mistake. I don't have to travel to Cuba to make that claim. I understand that the Swedish government is not going to bail out Saab. I don't have to travel to Sweden to have an opinion! I don't own a Saab and don't give a **** about it. I own a lot of cancelled Cuban cigars and I do care about those.

If you have taken it personally as a Cuban or as an employee of H SA what I have said, then like I have said, I am sorry. It was not personal, not at all. If you are saying that you are equally frustrated with the buracracy at your work then I empathize with you brother, welcome to life in general. If you disagree with what I have said okay... lets still be friends, like I said, nothing personal. If you agree and can't do anything about it then put your boss on the terminal.

Lastly don’t go getting yourself in trouble for my cigar tastes, I never asked you to speak up for me and put yourself or your job in jeopardy. You were never considered when I posted here. My understanding was that Rob was looking for some fuel for his fight. Getting you in trouble was not a part of the bargain and I never would have taken part here if I knew that there would be some sort of partisan backlash against a member here. That is not what this is about.

I admittedly don’t understand life on Cuba beyond those of the political ideologies that I simply will refuse to debate. But please, please don’t put yourself in harms way for the sake of my taste in cigars; that my friend would be a mistake.

Best regards Amigo, Ray

[Padrino]

I know this thread is about POSITIVE feedback but i honestly haven't seen anything positive from them in the last 5+ years. I'll just add to the bitching with what I believe is the main problem with Habanos S.A.

The problem > Mr/Don Buenaventura Jiménez Sánchez-Cañete

I'll simplify it.

In Spain we call people like him "pijos", which directly translated would be "Snobs". They belong to the upper crust of Spanish society and often have little or no clue on how the average man in the street goes about his daily business. Money is all they know and care about.

Now, as head (or co-head) of Habanos S.A. this man's true character has come to the fore. Just look at the changes that have slowly crept on us since he appeared on the scene in 2006. The $$ is the bottom line and little else matters. The prices go up every year with little or no reasoning to them. This year will see another 15% hike in prices. The rollers will still get paid the same, and some of them will even lose their jobs. No one cares.

In these tough economic times they.....push up the prices. In it's current incarnation there is no human side to Habanos S.A. and there is no room left for sentiment. Can anyone honestly explain or justify the Montecristo "Open" ?? or the Replica of the 10th Festival Box ??? or the luridly colored "tubos" that are now en vogue ??

Personally i'd like thank Don Buenaventura Jiménez Sánchez-Cañete with a nice long email....

I just hope the good guys keep fighting the good fight.

[Wiley]

This annoying situation is the bastard child of communism and capitalism. Plain and simple, if there wasn't a government monopoly, small businesses would be cropping up to fill in the gaps. Maybe, hopefully, someday Cuba will allow new, private, cigar houses again.

(Apologies if someone has already stated the obvious. This thread is so long I can't remember all that has been said.)

[Punch Joe]

Mi Amigo Ray

Thanks for your valuable time invested in the reply. I wasn´t able to do so because the connection was so slow that I had to wait everybody shut down their computers and letf home to post mine. I work in HSA, for about 7 years now if you didn´t know that. I really like this Forum, and I do care about consumers, that´s all. Some things, call it bureacracy or whatever, are not under my control, that´s frustating when it comes to the business I feel passion for. I´m a tobacco man, been talking ´bout cigars every day of my life since I joined the Industry 10 years ago at the Tobacco Seccion at the Ministry of Agriculture. I remember saying that I appreciate your lines but it sounds a little offensive anyway if you think that everyone in HSA thinks the same and if adressed openly to any working here. But nevermind, I took it personally as you said because I might be the only one reading the thread at HSA. At the marketing Division, we have raised harsh controversy many times regarding the future strategies and some of us were very dissapointed with the list of cigars that they plan to have discontinued. Once they are gone, are gone. And I don´t want that. Loved the pics of the Petit Coronas, long time no see them at the stores. It´s sad, I know but nothing could be done. I wish I could have the ability, or necessary resources or strenght to change people´s old mentality. You know, 4 years ago i wanted to know what did it feel like by purchasing cigars with my own money. I did it in the airport on my way to Europe, later I spent more on cigars than anyhting else during my travel. I was really upset when finding out that one of my sticks didn´t draw. That´s a complete different situation because I ussually don´t spend a dime on cigars, they are given to me and I smoke them. What I´m trying to say is that I fully understand what you and others have said here.

Thanks for your concerns and opinions. Don´t think I am jeopardizing my job or position for something I dare to say. What do I have to loose? It would be a big mistake if someone fires me for my opinion on any subject. I am sure they are very fortunate by having me here working. We are talking about cigars and we will do so as long as we live.

Hope in the future we can meet each other and share good cigars over a fine red wine and BBQ. I´m not as bad as they say. LOL.

P.S. Politics, Thank you, not interested. I was just being ironic when talking about switching jobs but I´m no really good at jokes. Sorry for that. JOSE

[laficion]

Thanks Punch Joe for the writeup. It was quit interesting and infomative.

The only thing That I would like to say to HSA is,

I want to be able to smoke, enjoy and have NO problems, EVERYTIME, with the cigar that I paid for.

My best to you, amistad

[El Presidente]

Thanks Punch.

As an insider who tries his utmost to hold the line we here believe in, it must be despondent reading some of the commentry on this thread.

Hold the line amigo. Fight the fight.

I have mentioned it many times before, HSA is broken up into several groups of competitng factions competing on ideas of direction.

We need to support the factions that think along the way we do. Support through ideas and encouragement.

We need to bring down the Spaniards, Educate the English (Imperial) and support the Cubans for a better industry which respects history and delivers proper pay and opportunity.

[anacostiakat]

Punchie, you are the best brother! Keep the faith...

[Shelby07]

Jose - Thank you for your posts and your concern. I've been on the forum for less than a year, but I know from many posts that you are a very valued member here.

I have a couple of questions for you. Does H SA know what is still out at their retailers? If so, is it possible that they feel there is still enough product out there to maintain availability for a few years? Also, what effect do you think the "fakes" market might have on some of the better cigars being discontinued. Is it reasonable to think that since the more popular lines get copied that it affects the sales figures for them?

Thanks,

Mark

[CigarZen]

Joe Punch. from one consumer, thank you for fighting the good fight ... it is not easy.

But maybe this example may help you with the revenue at all cost crowd at HSA. What they would be smart to understand is quality makes revenue; consumer satisfaction makes revenue.

They may remember when GM dominated the North American car market. Back then GM scoffed at the japanese product saying it was nothing to worry about, as the ROI crowd in GM cared less about quality, less about satisfying the consumer, and revenue was king. I have had many friends in the car industry over the decades, "car guys" I guess you would call them, that love the product. They can share stories, not different than yours in HSA, about the finance/beancounters driving the decisions for revenue and profit instead of reasonable quality and product decisions. Now think about Cuba's historical dominance in the cigar industry and how years ago non-cubans were much inferior. Some say the NCs are getting better (I don't know, they aren't for me). GM by not satisfying the consumer gave its competitors a chance to pick away at it market share. Now look at GM, in demise. Now this example is not perfect; I think, though, there are parallels. Back when GM was king of the market they felt that they did not need to listen to consumers' desires and those inside GM that spoke for them, after all where can they go?

Now those revenue-at-all-costs execs sit back with egg on their face wishing they listened a bit more often to the car guys. HSA has a chance to be wiser and listen to you, a cigar guy. Consumer satisfaction is revenue, even if today's revenues look good.

Best of luck!

Zen

[PigFish]

Joe Punch. from one consumer, thank you for fighting the good fight ... it is not easy.

But maybe this example may help you with the revenue at all cost crowd at HSA. What they would be smart to understand is quality makes revenue; consumer satisfaction makes revenue.

They may remember when GM dominated the North American car market. Back then GM scoffed at the japanese product saying it was nothing to worry about, as the ROI crowd in GM cared less about quality, less about satisfying the consumer, and revenue was king. I have had many friends in the car industry over the decades, "car guys" I guess you would call them, that love the product. They can share stories, not different than yours in HSA, about the finance/beancounters driving the decisions for revenue and profit instead of reasonable quality and product decisions. Now think about Cuba's historical dominance in the cigar industry and how years ago non-cubans were much inferior. Some say the NCs are getting better (I don't know, they aren't for me). GM by not satisfying the consumer gave its competitors a chance to pick away at it market share. Now look at GM, in demise. Now this example is not perfect; I think, though, there are parallels. Back when GM was king of the market they felt that they did not need to listen to consumers' desires and those inside GM that spoke for them, after all where can they go?

Now those revenue-at-all-costs execs sit back with egg on their face wishing they listened a bit more often to the car guys. HSA has a chance to be wiser and listen to you, a cigar guy. Consumer satisfaction is revenue, even if today's revenues look good.

Best of luck!

Zen

...that was an excellent post. Want proof history repeats itself, look at the world economy today? Cheers, -Piggy