more insanity

[Ken Gargett]

okay, i know i am not supposed to touch this and no offense to anyone's beliefs intended but i am just on a wave of really getting pissed off (apols for the language) at brain dead stupidity. and i cannot think of anything that fits that category more than the announcement i heard today from the pope in africa, condemning the use of condoms as a way of trying to stop the aids epidemic. that sort of irresponsible mindbogglingly moronic comment condemns many thousands of innocent people, including who knows how many children, to endless misery and a slow death (i know drugs making an impact etc but he has no idea of how little will get to those who need them). i really hope i heard wrong and that he said nothing of the kind. but if he did then i cannot imagine ever having the slightest respect for him again.

it is 20 years since i went through africa and even then, you'd drive through villages where everyone was obviously ill, many of them thinner than broomsticks. it was tragic then and can' imagine any better now. the villagers we met all called it 'thin'. that was the name of the disease and they had no idea how or why.

frankly, for a person in his position to come out with this rubbish should condemn him to a very long stint in a very nasty jail.

[sandholm]

okay, i know i am not supposed to touch this and no offense to anyone's beliefs intended but i am just on a wave of really getting pissed off (apols for the language) at brain dead stupidity. and i cannot think of anything that fits that category more than the announcement i heard today from the pope in africa, condemning the use of condoms as a way of trying to stop the aids epidemic. that sort of irresponsible mindbogglingly moronic comment condemns many thousands of innocent people, including who knows how many children, to endless misery and a slow death (i know drugs making an impact etc but he has no idea of how little will get to those who need them). i really hope i heard wrong and that he said nothing of the kind. but if he did then i cannot imagine ever having the slightest respect for him again.

it is 20 years since i went through africa and even then, you'd drive through villages where everyone was obviously ill, many of them thinner than broomsticks. it was tragic then and can' imagine any better now. the villagers we met all called it 'thin'. that was the name of the disease and they had no idea how or why.

frankly, for a person in his position to come out with this rubbish should condemn him to a very long stint in a very nasty jail.

Its not only in africa, the moron Sarah Palin and the rest of the "pro-life" opposes the use of birth control pills and condoms among married couples, so this has nothing to do with trying to stop aids or not, it comes down to religious narrow minded people

insaine, pro-life my #ss

[OZCUBAN]

Hi Ken yes I do believe we are on thin ice here.

lucky I am not a a left footer (so I can't burn in hell ).

When I looked at the Calender this morning I was sure it said we are in 21 st century.

suffice to say it was very well said.

Who's more out of touch the Poli's or Priests

Cheers

Oz Cuban

[Mr. Japan]

......................this has nothing to do with trying to stop aids or not, it comes down to religious narrow minded people

I fully agree, and I live in Italy.

[Ken Gargett]

Hi Ken yes I do believe we are on thin ice here.

lucky I am not a a left footer (so I can't burn in hell ).

When I looked at the Calender this morning I was sure it said we are in 21 st century.

suffice to say it was very well said.

Who's more out of touch the Poli's or Priests

Cheers

Oz Cuban

if there really is a heaven and hell (and i know rob has heavily backed non-existence of the latter, given the evidence of his lifestyle), then every pollie and a few too many priests will have already booked long term acommodation in the hot place.

[Ken Gargett]

I fully agree, and I live in Italy.

absolutely. if it had the slightest connection with stopping aids, then we would not be having this discussion as they'd handing out condoms in africa like confetti at a wedding.

[Guest rob]

Fully agree.

I cant say much without sounding like I'm picking on these stupid idiots... so I wont.

[Rogers72]

I consider myself a very conservative Christian who also happens to be extremely "pro-life". That said, I am definitely in favor of birth control and most any means of slowing down the spread of STD's...with condoms being one of the most logical means. Let's not paint with too broad of a brush and lump all religious, pro-lifers in with the likes of the Pope and Sarah Palin.

[Ken Gargett]

I consider myself a very conservative Christian who also happens to be extremely "pro-life". That said, I am definitely in favor of birth control and most any means of slowing down the spread of STD's...with condoms being one of the most logical means. Let's not paint with too broad of a brush and lump all religious, pro-lifers in with the likes of the Pope and Sarah Palin.

my comments were directed solely at the utterances of the pope, though anyone getting on board with that is tarred with the same brush, for me.

[Rogers72]

I also detest this comment from the Pope. I am not Catholic and admittedly don't know much about the Catholic Church but it seems from the outside looking in that it has been heading in a much different direction than other Christian denominations for quite some time now. I only hope that this comment by the Pope does not influence or reflect the views of the millions of people that he represents.

[asmith]

Gargett you a little bored down there in Adelaide, just jumping on line and stirring up trouble?

[anacostiakat]

my comments were directed solely at the utterances of the pope, though anyone getting on board with that is tarred with the same brush, for me.

Well being a filthy papist my only comment is to not forget he hasnt ever been laid . .

[laficion]

too many priests will have already booked long term acommodation in the hot place.

Ken,

I am, by name, a Catholic and I have my faith in me that I believe in, BUT,

I don't believe in the "Roman Catholic Church INC. S.A." .

I believe that a pope should live a life of humble means and true faith .

Poorer then the poorest preists in the smallest town and not one of the richest men on the

planet, sitting on a golden seat.

It would be interesting to know how many children are born from the pope's little

gang of Cardinals and how much money comes in from all the real estate and *****

houses they own in Rome. Then we can maybe talk about morals.

But then on the other hand, what would you expect from an Austrian.

Sorry about being so blunt but this has always pissed me off. all religions are man's

hell on earth.

[Freefallguy]

Gargett you a little bored down there in Adelaide, just jumping on line and stirring up trouble?

Where in the world is Kenny Gargett? I'm not sure but something has his knickers in a knot.

Ken- can I posit something... is it possible that more lives would be saved through abstinence? Is there harm in education? Not a sermon, justa thought.

I'm concerned for you, post another "insanity" thread and you may well be taking your meds from Nurse Ratched.

[Colt45]

Ken- can I posit something... is it possible that more lives would be saved through abstinence? Is there harm in education? Not a sermon, justa thought.

Yes, but why let a little common sense get in the way of a good whinge?

Practicing catholics will already be heeding church doctrine, for others it's just words in the wind.

[SethG]

Its not only in africa, the moron Sarah Palin and the rest of the "pro-life" opposes the use of birth control pills and condoms among married couples, so this has nothing to do with trying to stop aids or not, it comes down to religious narrow minded people

insaine, pro-life my #ss

That's a bit of a straw man. The majority of pro-lifers are proponents of birth control, only catholics are opposed to it officially. Unofficially the majority of catholics probably believe strongly in birth control. Probably less than 1 out of 10 pro lifers oppose birth control.

Remember, as much as we'd like the Pope to be a public figure that works to be voted in every term and responds to public opinion, the Pope is a religious leader.

Ken, how about going after the Imam's in the theme of fair game?

As a side note, Rachel Carson has killed more Africans than AIDS ever has. It'd be sensible to bury her beliefs with the pope's when it comes to policy towards Africa.

[Van55]

Here's one pundit's defense of the Pope:

So let me stick up for Benedict. He declares that the Church's historic teaching that chastity outside marriage and fidelity within it would prevent the spread of killer diseases such as Aids. Whatever your views on the subject, that simple statement is undoubtedly true. And Benedict is in the truth business.

But it is a category error to expect the Pope to concede that this is a divine solution to the human condition. It is of no earthly use - and I choose my words carefully - for him to compromise what his Church sees as God's truth. And his calling is to speak that truth. It's his job. That's what he is for.

The fact of the matter is that, so long as the Pope is convinced of the truth of the scripture, it would be insanity to think he would support the providing and use of condoms for disease prevention.

[El Presidente]

Ken, being a Catholic in todays world is not easy. They do so much good at ground level (communities) and yet I know few of them who take the Popes word as "Gospel" .....and that includes quite a few priests.

"Rome" is an abberation for many Catholics who work with the poor, the struggling and the downtrodden. You have those Catholics on the right, the centre and the left. In our neck of the woods most fall into the centre and left.

Questions like the one you raised hang heavy in the hearts of many Catholics. "Are you truly a Catholic if your conscience and beliefs do not/cannot support extreme elememnts of papal doctrine?" "Is it right to cherry pick those elements of Catholicism that you believe in and shun/ignore the rest?"

I have found myself in that same situation. Raising a family as Catholics but finding myself continually questioning core aspects of doctrine. I was educated by Marist Brothers who were left leaning and continually asked us to question and agitate within the confines of the Church. Agitate for social good/social change to protect those less fortunate. Over the past decade however there has been (in OZ) a rebirth and enforcement of rightist doctrine. Do we fight for change or do we leave? Hard to leave a philosophy/religion you grew up in.

Can you be a Catholic and believe in birth control? I do as do millions of others. Perhaps we are being forced out the door.

While I respect your right to attack the viewpoint of the Pope, threads such as this have the potential to open wounds and inflame broader attacks on people who do not deserve it. Like political threads, viewpoints held are often deeply entrenched and I question what can be achieved.

Still, Aids/poverty in Africa has far more to do with the actions of African Governments than actions of the Pope. It was the South African Government which until very recently banned the use of the most effective anti aids drugs. Almost everywhere through the continent, graft, corruption, war has led to displacement, and unimainable poverty and desperation.

Condoms should be available to all (personal belief) as should health clinics, sexual education (including the option of abstinence) but condoms in themselves are a small part of the problem.

As proof in point, Condoms are freely available to our own indigenous population. Catholic doctrine is not a strong influence in Palm Island or Bamaga. Still, the incidence of sexual disease, child abuse, life expectancy, teenage pregnancy etc (in remote communities) is some of the highest in the world.

The problem is poverty, lack of opportunity, desperation, lack of education, lack of positive role models, abuse of alcohol and irreconcilable cultural differences.

Just my 2 cents.

[bolivr]

Funny, I agree with Rob AND Ken.

To lighten things up a bit....

SethG said:

Ken, how about going after the Imam's in the theme of fair game?

Here's one example, ROTFLMAO

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...5013404,00.html

[shrink]

I was educated by Marist Brothers who were left leaning and continually asked us to question and agitate within the confines of the Church.

Rob, I always thought that you were educated by the Marx Brothers.