lipstick on a pig????

[anacostiakat]

I think Palin was as much a strategic choice as tactical.

She could run against Hillary in the future and I think this was part of her being chosen. Along with widening the ticket's appeal.

[Mike33]

» » » what the hell was obama thinking? to an outsider, this is an

» » extraordinary

» » » gaffe. will it be seen so in the states? will it hurt him? to me, it

» » might

» » » have been a hail mary selection by mccain but obama just made certain

» » that

» » » doug flutie has not left the building.

» »

» » The whole issue is borderline ridiculous because not only is that a

» common

» » expression here in the states, McCain used it numerous time earlier

» this

» » year and late last year including referring to Hillary's health care

» » proposal. So if Obama was being sexist, then so was McCain.

» »

» » The sad thing is this takes away from the fact that McCain and his

» fascist

» » running mate are terrible on womens' issues, including McCain voting

» » against equal pay numerous times and the Fascist wanting women to pay

» for

» » Rape kits.

»

»

» WTF! This is not the Daily Kos. Go spread your fascism B.S. over there.

» This is supposed to be a gentlemanly site.

»

» By the way, both of my grandfathers fought gainst fascism in WWII. Your

» asenine political swipe cheapens their service.

It was meant as a tounge-in-cheek reply, sorry if it offended you. One of my grandfathers also fought in Europe in WWII, so lets not try to play that card about cheapening service.

[havanaclub7]

» No I don't believe it cheapens your Grandfathers courageous service .

» You should look on it as an affirmation of their successful fight against

» fascism that most people these days really don't know the true meaning of

» the word.

I agree with you Warren that it doesn't cheapen their service. I just get sick and tired of people making mindless political slurs against their opponents by calling them fascists. I work in politics in the U.S. and read those comments on far-left blogs and web sites on a daily basis. As you indicated, most people these days really don't know the true meaning of the word.

[Guest Warren]

You know , I think we're all friends here. That's the beauty of Foh , it's a friendly place.

Most friends will have the occasional disagreement from time to time.

Without the light and shade it's hard to call a friend a true friend.

Politics and religion will always polarise.

The one thing we have that won't is a love of the leaf and the friendship that it brings.

So my friends , fire up your favourite stick and toast the people we come here to be with.

Cheers

Warren

[Mike33]

» I just get sick and tired of people making mindless political slurs against their opponents by calling them fascists. As you indicated, most people these days really don't know the true meaning of the word.

While it may seem shocking, I do know the meaning of Fascism as how it is commonly used in today's world. That is why I used it in a tongue-in-cheek way.

Also, I hope you are equally sick and tired when people make mindless political attacks calling people socialists and communists. It goes both ways...

[havanaclub7]

Also, I hope you are equally sick and tired when people make mindless

» political attacks calling people socialists and communists. It goes both

» ways...

I agree with you on the communist stuff. But when a political candidate advocates redistributing wealth or having the government take over health care, those policies are, in fact, socialism. I never question motives, only policies.

[Mike33]

» Also, I hope you are equally sick and tired when people make mindless

» » political attacks calling people socialists and communists. It goes

» both

» » ways...

»

» I agree with you on the communist stuff. But when a political candidate

» advocates redistributing wealth or having the government take over health

» care, those policies are, in fact, socialism. I never question motives,

» only policies.

That may be your opinion, but then you'd have to classify social security as socialist as well as all other forms of government assistance. And if that is what you believe, then that's ok. But classifying a person as a "socialist" because they want government to take over health care is pretty far out there.

And redistributing wealth doesn't fly either, as all forms of government do this through taxation, and as such it is simply a matter of degrees. So if you are comfortable with people using the socialist tag when it obviously doesn't apply, you shouldn't be so quick to condemn those who throw out other terms that are equally out of place.

Edited to add: The bailout of Fannie and Freddie, going by your analogy, should mean that Bush is a socialist as well.

[havanaclub7]

» » Also, I hope you are equally sick and tired when people make mindless

» » » political attacks calling people socialists and communists. It goes

» » both

» » » ways...

» »

» » I agree with you on the communist stuff. But when a political

» candidate

» » advocates redistributing wealth or having the government take over

» health

» » care, those policies are, in fact, socialism. I never question

» motives,

» » only policies.

»

» That may be your opinion, but then you'd have to classify social security

» as socialist as well as all other forms of government assistance. And if

» that is what you believe, then that's ok. But classifying a person as a

» "socialist" because they want government to take over health care is

» pretty far out there.

»

» And redistributing wealth doesn't fly either, as all forms of government

» do this through taxation, and as such it is simply a matter of degrees.

» So if you are comfortable with people using the socialist tag when it

» obviously doesn't apply, you shouldn't be so quick to condemn those who

» throw out other terms that are equally out of place.

»

» Edited to add: The bailout of Fannie and Freddie, going by your analogy,

» should mean that Bush is a socialist as well.

Come on, Mike. When Barack Obama advocates raising taxes on the "rich" and giving "tax cuts" to people who don't pay taxes, that's income re-distribution and that is socialism. When others advocate for the federal government to take over health care ala' Canada or Great Britian, that is socialism. As for the programs you mention, I wouldn't call the "safety net" socialism. I do agree with you that the government bailout and take over of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac is probably socialism. But people smarter than both of us say that it's necessary to prevent a collapse of the U.S. mortgage market and other financial markets. I also assume and hope that it's a temporary measure as the government doesn't run things very well.

[Mike33]

» Come on, Mike. When Barack Obama advocates raising taxes on the "rich"

» and giving "tax cuts" to people who don't pay taxes, that's income

» re-distribution and that is socialism. When others advocate for the

» federal government to take over health care ala' Canada or Great Britian,

» that is socialism. As for the programs you mention, I wouldn't call the

» "safety net" socialism. I do agree with you that the government bailout

» and take over of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac is probably socialism. But

» people smarter than both of us say that it's necessary to prevent a

» collapse of the U.S. mortgage market and other financial markets. I also

» assume and hope that it's a temporary measure as the government doesn't

» run things very well.

I took off the first part of the quotes to make it shorter.

"Taxes are the price we pay for civilization," Holmes said. Raising taxes on the rich so they won't be able to afford a 5th or 6th home so that the poor can afford milk is not socialism, it's responsible governing. The only way our country works is to reward those who work hard and help those who need it, and that's what our progressive taxes do. If socialism is that, I would be a proud socialist.

And saying government funded health-care is socialist makes about as much sense as saying social security a "safety net." Does Social Security not redistribute wealth and be administered by the government? You can try to distinguish them all you want, but if you are going to call one socialist, then the other damn sure is as well.

My point, and the point before we got into this long-winded discussion, is neither the fascist or socialist label should be used, because everything is a matter of degrees. Again, I apologize if I offended you using that term, but I assure you it was only in jest.

[Jimmy2]

havanaclub7 you are 100% correct....

[JMH]