Should Bush make an end of the embargo?

[cliff]

now with the hurricane that has passed, Two prominent Cuban dissidents (roque and roca) asked to suspend the embargo...

my question is now, should the embargo stay or should it go?

(permanently)

thanks

ps: still looking for cuban davidoff's and dunhill's :-D

[yossie]

» now with the hurricane that has passed, Two prominent Cuban dissidents

» (roque and roca) asked to suspend the embargo...

»

» my question is now, should the embargo stay or should it go?

» (permanently)

»

» thanks

»

» ps: still looking for cuban davidoff's and dunhill's :-D

Not yet. They should continue it until I die or finish smoking. (maybe the same meaning)

Such cigars are still available but quite expensive. If you're interested in them, PM me.

[zuma]

» Not yet. They should continue it until I die or finish smoking. (maybe the same meaning)

I agree yossie... but it'd be good for Cuba's economy. I wish it meant cheaper and higher quality Habanos for us outside of the US... but I have a feeling that the contrary is more likely.

[Claudius]

I'd like the embargo to remain in place for another 20 years. By then, I'll have accumulated enough boxes to smoke and prices can explode and quality go down the drain again for all I care :-D And Rob wont care either, he'll have a flower shop by then

[yossie]

» I'd like the embargo to remain in place for another 20 years. By then,

» I'll have accumulated enough boxes to smoke

If you don't give your cigar a Japanese, You would reduce your stock ;-)

[El Presidente]

Get rid of the embargo.

FOH can become a co-operative, purchase our own finca run by Jose with Hamlet and Rainer making the cigars we want :-D

[Grasso]

End it. I want to be able to exercise my rights as I should be allowed to. The embargo is an ineffective antique of a law, and our politicians are too stubborn to swallow their pride and throw it out.

[harryleech]

For the sake of the Cuban people, definitely remove it. They're the only ones who suffer from it, not the Cuban government, not the US government. It's been a ridiculous policy since a year or two after it's inception and all it's done is impoverish the Cuban people and give the US a lot of bad press around the world: The US government is seen as a bully by many around the world due to this policy towards one of their nearest neighbours.

It would be great if FOH became a cooperative making their own boutique cigars, but I would imagine that there would be a lot of protection of the cigar industry by the Cuban government, irregardless of the end of the embargo. We could have the "FOH Presidente" cigar as the innaugural vitola!

[asc]

Keep it for selfish cigar price loving reasons.

Would the people really benefit from increased business? Or would it benefit those who are in power? Honest question.

[Claudius]

» Keep it for selfish cigar price loving reasons.

»

» Would the people really benefit from increased business? Or would it

» benefit those who are in power? Honest question.

It'd only make those in power richer. Not sure what Rob is talking about, but the fact that the US removes the embargo doesnt mean Cuba would change governments.

[sepp]

» but the fact that the US removes the embargo doesnt mean Cuba would change governments.

And they shouldn't have too! We get along with a lot of other governemnts that are far more abusive and terrible world nieghbors than Cuba... Ooops they have oil!

I do dread what will become of that beautiful country if it get's baterdized by american interests, but even the current government would probably welcome the infusion of cash the golden arches would bring thier way.

[Punch Joe]

I wouldn´t touch the subject with a ten foot pole. anyway some corrections and ideas.

1 For us is blockade.:-(

2 We have an internal blockade as well. I want to exercise my rights too. Las Vegas Big Smoke here I go!!!:-D

3 Politicians are the same **** everywhere. They get richer while the people is working their arses off.:-|

4 For those who want the blockade to continue,:-) I will extend an invitation to live near my place in a shag I will be happy to give away as soon as they get the cuban citizenship. The first ones will be very fortunate. :-D So you can a better appreciation while smoking my humidor finest. You are WELCOME!

5 I tell you what might happen if the blockade is lifted tomorrow morning. many US brethens will come and partake on their own fave cigar. They will take as much as they can get leaving the local market out of stock in a few months. They won´t be waiting for their cargo to be shipped, They will come over.

6 being one of our nearest neighbors, maintaining this policy is more than absurd. It´s criminal. Have you ever seen any of the gov´s people suffering something? I support the idea of lifting this sickness

6 And unfortunately the way I have been seeing things for the past 20 years, laws are going to be very protective regarding national products, let alone tobacco.

7 Bush is not going to do anyhting for us. He sold that idea to rioght winded exiles in Miami and it didn´t work either. Roque is an opportunist who called herself a dame in white and she is the US Section of Interest´s payroll. Roca is a hypocrit who changes everytime the wind blows. With fortune tellers of this kind, we are surrounded

[Colt45]

It's been brought up before, but the U.S. could have gone a long way in helping U.S. - Cuba

relations by reaching out to, and doing what we could to help the people of Cuba.

My greatest "fear" (if I can really call it that), is that whichever administration does finally try

to normalize relations will have done so too late, and that Cuba will have moved on, and won't

really give a rat's behind what we do.

And just thinking out loud, if I ever make it to Cuba, I think one of the last things I'd be interested

in would be cigars.....

[luv2fly]

It would take an act of Congress. The embargo was an Executive Order for years but made law in the 1990's I think. Prior to that, the sitting President could pencil whip the embargo away. Now, the US Congress would have to vote it out. :-(

There have been votes in the past to end the embargo but obviously they did not pass.

Someday maybe.:-D

[Tampa1257]

The Embargo is and has been a FAILED Political Act that has neither worked nor done anything but hurt the people of Cuba. It has never been nor ever had any success it changing the Government of Cuba.

It should end forthwith, immediately if not sooner!

[harryleech]

» » Would the people really benefit from increased business? Or would it

» » benefit those who are in power? Honest question.

»

» It'd only make those in power richer. Not sure what Rob is talking about,

» but the fact that the US removes the embargo doesnt mean Cuba would change

» governments.

In fairness, no matter what you think of the Cuban government (and I am not one to glorify ANY communist government) if riches are going to trickle down in any country, they will in Cuba. It's the reason they've been able to stay in power so long. Even after 40 years of the embargo and 15+ years since the USSR fell there is a decent health system and a passable education system. Without the embargo everyone would be better off in Cuba (albeit not rich.)

That's not to say that some (those in power) will not benifit more: But that happens everywhere.

[Ken Gargett]

key point here is politicians.

serious question - when was the last time any politician on this planet, of any persausion, did anything which did not involve self interest, whether that be to maintaining power or filling their pockets or helping their mates or duping voters to re-elect them?

seriously, the only positive thing any politician, any side of politics, has ever done to benefit the general populace has been to die in office. and big surprise, it is all too rarely a voluntary act.

so don't expect the embargo/blockade/disgraceful trampling of human rights to end unless a politician sees something in it for them.

[Claudius]

Exactly, Ken. Politicians are corrupt, lying pieces of ****. Because of human nature and because of the system: they get elected, so they have to talk as much **** as possible to convince the highest possible number of voters. You cant change human nature, but you can change the system: let's get rid of democracy.

[bolivr]

»

There's 2 answers. Selfishly, if it stays then I get top cigars for the current reasonable prices.

If it goes, the increase in demand will drive a short term shortage pushing up prices quite possibly beyond what I can afford. Cuba will then react with increasing production which is likely to mean a drop in quality for the medium term and some price relief.

Longer term things may return to normal. Some USA smokers will stick with their quality non-cubans which I think have no problems in leaf quality and construction nowadays, it comes down to personal preference. (mine is cuban:-P ) so far....

Its a good time to buy...:-)

For the Cuban people; they need liberalisation of their economy first (with or without the blockade) They deserve better than what they currently get.

[Jimmy2]

Cuba before Castro had over 900 brands and made almost 300 million cigars a year.

All this bull about a drop in quality is way over rated a shortage yes for a couple of years but no drop in Quality. As they will only make what they can until they have what they need to make more and not have a drop in Quality.I think they have learned from 99 to 2001 about doing more than they can handle.

Once US helps out Cuba with our superior agricultural know how all will be better in know time.As we did in helping Cuba pre 59 in growing the leaf.

[cliff]

"At the time of nationalization, there were reported to be 960 registered trademarks for cigars in

Cuba, not to mention hundreds of old, discontinued brand trade names. 1,726 now-discontinued export brands which

were produced in Cuba between 1810 and the nationalization of the tobacco industry in September 1960. "

if the embargo ends today, many Americans will go to Cuba, and even with a limit of 2 boxes pp, shops wil run out.

so more and more brands will be created just like before the revolution.

before the revolution they made cigars and hoping it would be a hit, the quality had to be good (like I can see for myself in my collection)

but when lots and lots of Americans would go to Cuba and will buy Cuban cigars, any quality will sell because the demand will be higher than they can offer.

so I'm afraid that poor quality will become standard and the prices for the better quality will rise though the roof...

however, as long as the politicians haven't smelled money, the embargo will stay.

[Jimmy2]

Quality will not go down because they will suffer long term from buyers like us they Habano S.A. have worked hard to get were they are since 1999 to 2001..

Look how many of those years are floating around and why most dont want them plugged alot of them and taste like cardboard or bland.Because Quality was down those years and looked what happened do you really think they want to go that path again for the short term to make money?

Like it or not when American was helping the tobacco fields in Cuban it was smooth as silk .In a couple of years production will be up and the Quality to match it.

But if it does end (Embargo) mean less shipped to some stores around the world so the US can stock some of their stores.And slowly when production is increased with the Quality to match all stores will have there stock to a good level.

Those who dont want the Embargo to end because of cigars !!!

Come on the people there suffering because of the Embargo kind of selfish for some to wish it to stay?

I think most are scared to if Embargo ends American will get the better cigars (if true as i dont think that true) too as we have a bigger market here i think..

Again is comes down to people are afraid of change because it might hurt there own interests while not thinking of the ones it might benefit.

Thank You....

[havanaclub7]

In my opinion, there are too many people alive and living in the U.S. today who had all of their property stolen by Castro when he nationalized private property. I don't think it's possible to lift the embargo until those victims of Castro's Communism are no longer living.

[Claudius]

» Those who dont want the Embargo to end because of cigars !!!

»

» Come on the people there suffering because of the Embargo kind of selfish

» for some to wish it to stay?

If the embargo ends and the US market, the largest cigar market in the world, opens up, you seriously think the Cubans wont try to meet demand and make the same mistakes as in the past? You think they learned something from the late nineties cigar boom? - I seriously doubt it. :-)

The Cuban people arent suffering because of the embargo, the Cuban people are suffering because they have a dictator running the country with a communist regime! They can (and do) buy food from the US and sell their cigars, sugar, nickel, etc. to the rest of the world. It would simply be cheaper and faster to trade with the US as they're so close geographically. But the reason for their poverty is the regime, not the embargo.

[bolivr]

» In my opinion, there are too many people alive and living in the U.S. today

» who had all of their property stolen by Castro when he nationalized private

» property. I don't think it's possible to lift the embargo until those

» victims of Castro's Communism are no longer living.

Yes even second and third generation exiles are a political force who punch way above their weight, pro embargo to the bitter end. Both sides of US politics are affected it seems pretty much equally, since Obama is pro embargo.

It is very simple - the embargo was put in place to pressure Castro and until he (and his brother) have gone they aren't going to change direction. No-one in power is going to rock the boat risking votes in Florida especially. IMHO we won't see a change until there is a political reason for it. Economic arguments have failed so far - farmers in Idaho for instance wanted Cuba as an open market for their produce, but no dice...:-|