Dry Habanos Smoke Better??

[Shooter]

So tonight I found a Cohiba Robusto from '06 that had been in a leather two-sided "pouch" for a week and a half and I cringed a bit when I found it thinking I shouldn't have left such a quality stick in this condition for so long.

Even when I pulled it out from the carrier the wrapper was coming unraveled near the head. I had it laying out in plain sight on my desk all day to remind me to do something with it (like get it re-humidified!).

After dinner I decided I'd just smoke the silly thing. Mind you--I smoked its "twin" 10 days ago and it was "OK" so I was curious how this guy would smoke, being somewhat "abused" and on the definite "dry-side."

Well, well, well. Would you believe this was one OUTSTANDING CoRo!!!? Well it was!! I smoked it down to the NUB!!

I couldn't believe how much flavor it had--and the burn was PERFECT! Smoke just billowed effortlessly from this legendary Robusto and it was chock-full of Cohiba flavors! It was leaps and bounds more enjoyable than the "properly humidified" one I'd smoked a week earlier. For what it's worth--my Aristocrat M-Plus is pretty darn consistent at the 65 percent humidity I set it for.

At this point I'm about ready to do some experimenting. I've had some other "dry" Habanos over the years and noticed above-average smoking characteristics there too but always leaned towards the "preventing dryness" mentality.

I've read some threads on Habanos smoking better down around the 60-62% range and I'm ready to get a dry-box going!

It makes me wonder how many of the "mediocre cigars" I've smoked could have provided an entirely different experience had they been at a lower humidity. I've always been conscious of it but tonight's Cohiba really reminded me that I need to explore the "drier-side" of Habanos.

I think I'm going to place a few Monte 2's (a fickle stick for me and others I know) in the dry-box and see if this doesn't "bring them around" to the cigar they're purported to be (at least by legend).

Have any of you experienced this? Nobody likes a cigar which starts unraveling but we ALL want to enjoy our cigars to the fullest! What say ye!?

[shrink]

Shooter... a week and a half isn't that long. Now if it were sitting in a car in 100 degree heat, now that would be something else.

My experience is primarily with "tight" cigars that I have dry-boxed for a few days. In almost every case, the draw was better, and thus the flavor.

[IShotAManInReno]

I like 'em a little dry too, as long as the filler is still moderately humified. I think it actually helps it burn better if the wrapper is a bit on the dry side. Mind you, Virginia in July is not exactly a dry climate.

I wonder what would happen if you left it sitting out in January. Or, what if you put one in the freezer overnight? Now there's and experiment I'm not willing to try.

[jdbrown]

I drybox all cigars in a very small desktop humidor that I place in a cooling unit which is 40/40. half hour to an hour or so. Flavor improves exponentially. Seems to bring those underlying muted flavors out and added depth.

[Wiley]

My problem with dry ones is that the wrappers tend to disintegrate as soon as I touch them with a cutter.

[effinwill]

my experiences are limited, but i always prefer an overly dry cigar to an overly wet one. I also prefer a razor sharp cutter and try not to clip anything but cap. :-D

loose rolls don't perform well at the 60-62 RH of my humi; ditto honduran sticks with those thick filler leaves.

[SmokinAl]

» My problem with dry ones is that the wrappers tend to disintegrate as soon

» as I touch them with a cutter.

Ditto. Nice way out is don't use a cutter. Slice (don't stab) a circle with a really sharp pen knife. I do this for all excepting figuardos.

[shrink]

» My problem with dry ones is that the wrappers tend to disintegrate as soon

» as I touch them with a cutter.

Wrapper damage is much less likely if you moisten the head with some saliva a minute or two before cutting. It's part of my ritual, and you get to taste the wrapper, too.

[Mel]

Cut them before you dry them.;-) When you do this you can also asses the draw and dry a little more if you need to.

Dry for an hour or two? It is more important to know the RH of the enbvironment in which you "dry" the cigar. Laying a cigar out of the humidor in FL mid summer may cause the cigar to gain water.:-D

[Wiley]

Great ideas on cutting, thanks guys!

[greenpimp]

I like to dry mine gradually, in a tubo for a couple of weeks in a fairly dry environment. Gets the filler binder and wrapper the same moisture content, I find.

[Tampa1257]

I maintain my humidor between 62-65% rh, yet recently I have begun dry boxing the cigars I want over the weekend for about 3 days. I have noticed that they draw easier, and the flavors are richer. This may be because of the typical conditions here in Florida where I smoke, I do notice that during the winter, I do not need to dry box. Interesting?

[SmokinAl]

» I maintain my humidor between 62-65% rh, yet recently I have begun dry

» boxing the cigars I want over the weekend for about 3 days. I have noticed

» that they draw easier, and the flavors are richer. This may be because of

» the typical conditions here in Florida where I smoke, I do notice that

» during the winter, I do not need to dry box. Interesting?

Same here in Queensland Tampa. Last few days have seen RH swing between 40 and almost 90%. It makes dry boxing hard unless you fall back to the airconditioner trick (every time the drybox humi starts getting up in moisture, leave it sitting open in front of the aircon for a few hours to dry it out).

[semery74]

» I drybox all cigars in a very small desktop humidor that I place in a

» cooling unit which is 40/40. half hour to an hour or so. Flavor improves exponentially. Seems to bring those underlying muted flavors out and added

» depth.

I tried this tonight. I agree it adds a little more oomph to the technique of dry boxing. I had my cigar at 67F/50%RH for 3 days and then stuck in the fridge for an hour. Put it in a small Pelican case after removing it from the fridge to eliminate condensation.

Thanks for sharing

[jdbrown]

Did you notice an improvement in flavor and burn??

[Claudius]

I noticed better flavor from slightly drier cigars as well (mine are at 64%). However, the first draws tend to be slightly bitter. This goes away when you smoke the cigar and it becomes warm and soft.

IMO the RHs we keep the cigars at are a trade-off between necessary moisture content for structural integrity and flavorful smoking experience. I have also noticed that cigars stored in closed ziploc bags seem slightly softer to the touch than those stored at the same RH in their boxes only.

[semery74]

» Did you notice an improvement in flavor and burn??

The burn was perfect, but I doubt it would have been otherwise even if I hadn't dry box it.

[semery74]

» I noticed better flavor from slightly drier cigars as well (mine are at

» 64%). However, the first draws tend to be slightly bitter. This goes

» away when you smoke the cigar and it becomes warm and soft.

»

» IMO the RHs we keep the cigars at are a trade-off between necessary

» moisture content for structural integrity and flavorful smoking

» experience. I have also noticed that cigars stored in closed ziploc bags

» seem slightly softer to the touch than those stored at the same RH in

» their boxes only.

Do you have a specific temperature you keep your cigars? My cellar is always a constant 67F all year round. Based on this lower temperature I set my RH to 70%. This would be equal to 65%RH at 69F.

[Grasso]

» Do you have a specific temperature you keep your cigars? My cellar is

» always a constant 67F all year round. Based on this lower temperature I

» set my RH to 70%. This would be equal to 65%RH at 69F.

This variable humidity thing is a MYTH. At least you're still running at 70% though - a perfectly acceptable (and preferred by many) level. I've copied this from somewhere else . . . to save myself a lot of thinking and typing :-P :

The Variable Humidity Myth...

Many self-proclaimed "authorities" have been making a serious mistake of confusing moisture content with relative humidity lately. At least one well-known Cigar distributor has added strength to this legend by distributing a table recommending different relative humidities at different temperatures. Don't fall for this "urban legend"! Cigars should be kept at 70% RH REGARDLESS of temperature or you WILL ruin them...

The modern myth of varying humidity with temperature is based on an entirely false premise. Cigars don't care about absolute moisture content. They need just enough moisture to keep the tobacco pliable, but not so much to swell it. This occurs at 70-73% REGARDLESS of temperature.

Tobacco should be kept at a relative humidity, which just keeps the leaves pliable without swelling them. Since that pliability is based on the interaction of the cellular membranes with the air surrounding them, *relative humidity*, not absolute moisture content is what's important.

This isn't chemistry, it's mechanics - on a cellular level. Ideally, the correct point is 70-73% regardless of temperature. At 70% relative humidity (a measure which by definition is independent of temperature) cigar leaves become pliable without swelling. At 75% or higher, the cells begin to swell. at 68% or lower, they can become brittle. These points are regardless of the ambient temperature or the absolute moisture content.

Does it make any sense to a rational person to keep their cigars at close to 100% humidity at 60 degrees? Anyone living in cold climates can attest to the fact that at 60 deg, their cigars are perfect at 70%, and (as they would at any temperature) their cigars are prone to mold and swelling at humidities above 80%. Those living in the tropics will tell you the same thing - their cigars MUST be kept at 70% humidity at storage temperatures of 80 degrees. According to "the table", those cigars should be at 50% humidity? I'll tell you what... If the humidity drops below 68%, your cigars will become dry and crack - I couldn't even imagine how badly dried out they'd be at 50%!

Try it yourself. The "logic" of varying RH with temp falls apart in the real world. Moisture content is NOT why we keep cigars at 70% humidity...

Here's a more scientific explanation debunking the myth of varying humidity from David E. Patton, Ph.D. at the Department of Physiology, UCLA School of Medicine...

"There has been extensive discussion on A.S.C. concerning the effects of temperature on humidity and its application to proper cigar storage. Much of the confusion concerning these concepts comes from not understanding what is happening at the molecular level. My goal is to explain some of the revalent concepts and then to put the concepts together in such a way as to give an intuitive understanding of how they relate to cigar storage.

Cigars are made from tobacco leaves. Tobacco leaves (like most plant material) consist primarily of carbohydrates and proteins. Protein and carbohydrate molecules contain many binding sites for water molecules. A certain proportion of the water binding sites need to be occupied by water molecules in order for the tobacco leaves to be adequately pliable, to burn properly and to age properly. So when we think about humidity as it relates to cigar storage, the most revalent factor to consider is: are the correct proportion of water binding sites occupied? Water molecules bind to other molecules via hydrogen bonds. Van der Waals interactions also participate. This applies to water bound to protein and carbohydrate molecules (e.g. tobacco leaves) or to other water molecules (e.g. liquid water). For the purposes of this discussion, water bound to tobacco leaves will be treated like liquid water.

Temperature is the main factor determining whether a water molecule will be more likely to be in either the gas or liquid (or bound) phases. This is because at higher temperatures, water molecules (like any other molecule) will have more kinetic energy. The more kinetic energy a molecule has, the higher its probability of being in the gas phase. This is because it will have sufficient kinetic energy to break out of the hydrogen bonds and Van der Waals interactions that would otherwise keep it bound. At lower temperatures molecules have less kinetic energy so when they collide with a carbohydrate molecule, for example, its kinetic energy is insuficient to break away from it. The important point here is that at higher temperatures, a water molecule is more likely to be in the gas phase and less likely to be bound. At lower temperatures a water molecule is more likely to be bound and less likely to be in the gas phase.

Another point that needs to be explained here is the concept of relative humidity. Simply stated, relative humidity is the ratio of the concentration of water in the gas phase divided by the maximal concentration of water the air can hold (the saturating concentration) at a given temperature. Air holds more water at higher temperatures. Therefore, if you hold the relative humidity constant and increase the temperature, the concentration of water molecules in the gas phase will increase. If you think about this superficially you may think that because the concentration of water molecules increases in the gas phase as you increase the temperature (holding relative humidity constant)that your cigars will become over-humidified. This is WRONG. Remember, as you increase the temperature, the water molecules are less likely to be bound to the tobacco and more likely to be in the gas phase. Thus, to keep the same proportion of water binding sites in the tobacco occupied by water molecules, the concentration of water molecules in the gas phase must be increased when temperature is increased.

[Wiley]

Suggesting a humidty level in the 70's is likely to get you stoned to death around here. ;-)

[Grasso]

» Suggesting a humidty level in the 70's is likely to get you stoned to death

» around here. ;-)

Indeed, I'm a 65% guy, myself :-D

[Colt45]

» They need just enough moisture to keep the tobacco pliable, but not so much

» to swell it. This occurs at 70-73% REGARDLESS of temperature.

I can't help but disagree here -- 58° in the coldest of winter, or 70° at the hottest in summer,

I'm trying to maintain 63% to 67% humidity.

[Claudius]

» Do you have a specific temperature you keep your cigars?

YEs I do. I keep the A/C on the lowest setting and it achieves 60 - 62°F.

» Based on this lower temperature I

» set my RH to 70%. This would be equal to 65%RH at 69F.

I would suggest reading the post above and setting your humidity level to 60 - 65% RH for storage. Increasing RH when temp is lowered is ignoring certain parameters, like the kinetic gas theory. I'd also recommend storing the cigars in closed ziploc bags

For smoking, I like the cigars warmer. Same RH (62 - 65%) but warmer.

[semery74]

» » They need just enough moisture to keep the tobacco pliable, but not so

» much

» » to swell it. This occurs at 70-73% REGARDLESS of temperature.

»

» I can't help but disagree here -- 58° in the coldest of winter, or 70° at

» the hottest in summer,

» I'm trying to maintain 63% to 67% humidity.

Are you modifying your humidity throughout the seasons?

[Colt45]

» Are you modifying your humidity throughout the seasons?

Not intentionally, but in the extreme of seasons, humidity will slowly move up and down.

As long as it stays within a certain range, I really don't worry about it.