Rum ageing

[Dr.G]

Hi all,

Just a stupid question regarding brown rum, from someone who is more used to drinking whiskey.

Does brown rum improve with age? I've got a bottle of Venezualean brown rum I got off my dad, Ron Anejo Aniversario Pampero, which has at least 10 years of age in the bottle. Will this improve the spirit or will it deteriorate?

Thanks,

George

[havanaclub7]

Hi George,

I'm not sure about whether the spirit would deteriorate -- I guess that would probably depend on the storage conditions, light exposure, etc. In general all "dark" distilled spirits stop aging when they are removed from wooden casks and bottled. So your 18 year old scotch is still 18 years old even though you might have had it in your drinks cabinet for another 10 years. Maybe others will have other opinions. Hope this helps!

[Ken Gargett]

» Hi all,

» Just a stupid question regarding brown rum, from someone who is more used

» to drinking whiskey.

»

» Does brown rum improve with age? I've got a bottle of Venezualean brown

» rum I got off my dad, Ron Anejo Aniversario Pampero, which has at least 10

» years of age in the bottle. Will this improve the spirit or will it

» deteriorate?

» Thanks,

»

» George

george, once in the bottle, that is it. ain't going to get any better - a rule in general for all spirits. that is he cutoff. if not stored well, can go downhill. the colour brown from colouring usually so that not relevant.

had some pampro on our last trip. thought it a good rum.

you should be able to keep it for quite some time if in a dark palce and at a contant, as much as possible, temperature, without vibration. but the seal all important. if that holds, helps a lot. no reason it shouldn't if well looked after. won't keep forever.

i have some of the original inner circle yet to open. hoping it kept well.

[sandholm]

» Hi George,

»

» I'm not sure about whether the spirit would deteriorate -- I guess that

» would probably depend on the storage conditions, light exposure, etc. In

» general all "dark" distilled spirits stop aging when they are removed from

» wooden casks and bottled. So your 18 year old scotch is still 18 years old

» even though you might have had it in your drinks cabinet for another 10

» years. Maybe others will have other opinions. Hope this helps!

Hi, no you are 100% right.

When the distillate is poured from the barrel it dies. Its actually the oak barrel that give a lot of the tast and the color, if not a sugar coloring is added, all distillates are transparent, thats why we say VSOP about cognac, Very Superior Old Pale. Actually it was the british who taught the french about destilling and storing cognac in oak barrels, the same with Champagne and the wine bottle... they are actually "british" inventions... very simple, english solder gets hurt, end up in a french hospital and falls in love with the nurse, who father owns a wine yard... and no Don Perignon did not invent Champange, he fintuned the process and made it a bit famous, but it was actually a swedish lady who brought champange out to the masses, the Champagne is actually "named" after here, with the color she liked.. .. anybody want to guess?

To sum up, storing a VS cognac (or rum) 2 more years dont make it to a VSOP, when a destillate is pored over to a bottle it will not improve, only deteriorate if its not kept in good storage condition (keep it away from light and heat...)

cheers

(I am on a airport... boored...

[Fuzz]

As far as I can recall, dark spirits (rum, whisky, brandy etc) only age in the barrel (that's where they get their colour from). Once bottled they cease aging.

As long as your rum has been kept in a dark, cool environment and the seal is still intact it should be perfectly fine to drink. Once it start to evaporate you may get problems.

[anacostiakat]

» Hi all,

» Just a stupid question regarding brown rum, from someone who is more used

» to drinking whiskey.

»

» Does brown rum improve with age? I've got a bottle of Venezualean brown

» rum I got off my dad, Ron Anejo Aniversario Pampero, which has at least 10

» years of age in the bottle. Will this improve the spirit or will it

» deteriorate?

» Thanks,

»

» George

Drink it George!

[n2advnture]

According to Seagrams, it depends on the spirit.

When asked, they said no to scotch but yes to rum (maybe because Baccardi sucks to begin with - LOL!)

~M

[El Presidente]

Constantly amazed at the knowledge of the members of this forum......on topics such as alcohol/women/fishing/cross dressing :-D

[Dr.G]

Thanks everybody for your helpful answers...thought I'd find a fellow bunch of alcohol-enjoyers here! :-D

It's been kept in a leather pouch, which the bottle comes in, so light won't be a problem.. and in Toowoomba, heat won't be an issue either!

Cheers,

George

[Ken Gargett]

yes re the colouring. should have said that a colouring component was just one alternative for the final colour and that cask ageing another.

re bacardi, try the 8 year old. not a bad rum at all.

[Ken Gargett]

Actually it was the British who

» taught the french about destilling and storing cognac in oak barrels, the

» same with Champagne and the wine bottle... they are actually "british"

» inventions... very simple, english solder gets hurt, end up in a french

» hospital and falls in love with the nurse, who father owns a wine yard...

» and no Don Perignon did not invent Champange, he fintuned the process and

» made it a bit famous, but it was actually a swedish lady who brought

» champange out to the masses, the Champagne is actually "named" after here,

» with the color she liked.. .. anybody want to guess?

I'm a bit lost with some of this. Am very keen to find out who the Swedish lady who brought champagne to the masses is???? I can only think of Nicole Ponsardin (Madame Clicquot) but she was definitely French according to all info I have.

As for dom perignon, he was an extraordinary man and you are correct, he certainly did not invent champagne. There is a heap of evidence of sparkling wine existing well before Dom P. In fact, there seems to be evidence of quite the contrary. He went to great lengths to keep bubbles out but that ruins the marketing spiel. Equally, there is evidence that he promoted the sparkle. He just seems to have been an extraordinary winemaker, years ahead of his time. His great talent was the blending, which is incredibly difficult – generally considered that the recently retired Henri Krug was the greatest of the last few decades (I did two blending sessions with him where we both had the same grapes – juice – and had to make up the base wine. I did point out to Henri that I thought his were crap, in polite terms, and that I was available to help. I think I detected the merest sad shake of the head and I'm still waiting for the invite. It was amazing what his base wines tasted like, the most bland, unexciting, nondescript things imaginable yet didn't they blossom into something phenomenal. It really is an amazing skill and places like Moet will not let someone like Richard Geoffroy, maker of Dom, a man who has done a lot of work matching Dom and cigars, and he may just be the best blender around post Henri Krug, fly on the same plane with his assistants because if it went down, the 'recipe' for Dom would be lost).

Among the things Dom P did, according to the documentation of the day and reports from contemporaries, were to make the first red wine in the region, the first 'white' wine from red grapes, invented the champagne press almost as we know it today, re-introduced the cork as a stopper to France, took blending varieties and vineyards to a new level (he was considered to have an extraordinary palate and was able to spot grapes from certain districts even after he went blind) and he took to using the stronger English glass in the region. At his time, the bottle was much more squat, bit like Armagnac The earliest wine bottles, as far as I am aware and leaving aside clay pots etc, have been found in Germany, dating back to the fourth century. I'd love to see any references re the Brits actually inventing the wine bottle (not trying to be sarcastic, I really would). There are also references to Roman efforts etc. It is likely that the need for the stronger English bottles is simply to prevent the breaking of the thin local stuff and resulting loss of wine. Hence, the thoughts that Dom P was actually trying to stop the fizz and so prevent breakages.

As for the Brits inventing champagne, lost there also. Would love to learn more about this English soldier which seems to be part of this.

I don't believe that champagne (and I suspect you are referring to sparkling wine in general rather than Champagne specifically – if champagne specifically, please let me know because I find that way out) was 'invented' as such, not by Dom P and certainly not by the Brits (there is some suggestion that sparkling wine was being made by the Brits about a decade before Dom P but also that the Italians were well before that and similar Spanish claims. Southern France was doing it about a century before the Champagne region and England. In that sense, the English suggestion is not too far-fetched as it would have been a cold climate and similar things could easily have been happening as in Champagne but that applies elsewhere too. There is also a thought that the Brits were importing champagne in casks and adding sugar to get the fizz). There are also numerous references in the Bible re sparkling wine Proverbs 23.31 and Matthew 9.17 etc – and yes, I looked this up because no way I could quote anything biblical.

It was much more an evolution than an invention and I suspect far more accidental that anyone cares to admit (in many cases, it was more something they could not prevent rather than set out to achieve). Champagne was/is a very cold region and winemaking back then was basic The onset of winter can have the effect of slowing/stopping fermentation. The wine goes into bottle and then is placed in a warm cellar or summer comes and the rest of the yeasts continue on but the CO2 has nowhere to go and hence is effectively dissolved in the wine in the bottle and fizzes on release (this is all a very simple explanation). Hence the popping of cork, or quite often in those days, exploding bottles and the need for the stronger glass. For a very long time, anyone going down the champagnes caves did so with effectively a suit of amour on for protection from flying glass. Even today, walk through the cellars and you'll see a gap here and there where a bottle exploded.

I am really keen to find out who this Swedish woman is?

[BlackFriar]

Ken, do you have any recommendations on books regarding wine history? Wine tasting books are nice but I like history.

Chris

[Ken Gargett]

» Ken, do you have any recommendations on books regarding wine history? Wine

» tasting books are nice but I like history.

»

» Chris

'the sory of wine' by hugh johnson. bit old now but leaves everything else for dead and you should be ble to get it quite easily.