Cigars and mold

[Cam]

Due to my recent hair raising experience I thought I'd post my thoughts (and welcome others) on mold, bloom and how to spot the differences.

I have been recently obssessed with counterfeit cigars and correct cigar storage after 16 Dom Perignons were destroyed after a champagne bottle exploded in my cellar (yes it does happen, Dom Perignon, destroying Dom Perignons).

I recently opened a box of 98 Bolivar Coronas which I had brought from Rob, to my great horror I found mouldy cigars, were the fans not circulating enough air? was it over humidified? No to both of them, the fans were doing their job and the humidity was at a constant 69.9% and the temperature 68.8F. But the cigars were covered in white *mold*, after talking to a friend in Casa del Habanos (in France) thats what we concluded it to be.

I had decided in all my wisdom (being a kiwi) to smoke them anyway. So I cut one, put it in my mouth, closed my eyes and lit the first moldy cigar...

...

What a delight! The cigar drew perfectly, the taste was chocolate and coriander, with hints of cedar and rimu/bark and it burnt perfectly even, could this mold be bloom?? Still not convinced, with service to my brothers on Friends of Habanos in mind, I like up 6 others in the one night, all the same except one which was slightly plugged ( the less *moldy* one ).

I guess my question to the rest of you pros is, can bloom cover a cigar like mold, ccan it be as thick? And im talking thick!

Cam -

[Colt45]

Cam, bloom / plume is crystalline - like fine sugar, salt, or tartrites.

Mold is webby / cottony, can be gray/white, blue/green.

[El Presidente]

Can you post a pic Cam?

[genevapics]

» Cam, bloom / plume is crystalline - like fine sugar, salt, or tartrites.

» Mold is webby / cottony, can be gray/white, blue/green.

What he said...

[asmith]

» Cam, bloom / plume is crystalline - like fine sugar, salt, or tartrites.

» Mold is webby / cottony, can be gray/white, blue/green.

What Rob trained me to tell clients was that all cigars we sold at Czars that were moldy were actually covered in Bloom. If the same cigar was sold by the competition it was clearly mold?

Hope that clears it all up. :-D

Hi Rob how's business?

[Colt45]

» What Rob trained me to tell clients was that all cigars we sold at Czars

» that were moldy were actually covered in Bloom. If the same cigar was

» sold by the competition it was clearly mold?

»

» Hope that clears it all up. :-D

»

» Hi Rob how's business?

Smithy, you bloody brasser, how's everything up on shangri-la-di-da island?

[Mark Twain]

» Due to my recent hair raising experience I thought I'd post my thoughts

» (and welcome others) on mold, bloom and how to spot the differences.

»

» I have been recently obssessed with counterfeit cigars and correct cigar

» storage after 16 Dom Perignons were destroyed after a champagne bottle

» exploded in my cellar (yes it does happen, Dom Perignon, destroying Dom

» Perignons).

»

» I recently opened a box of 98 Bolivar Coronas which I had brought from

» Rob, to my great horror I found mouldy cigars, were the fans not

» circulating enough air? was it over humidified? No to both of them, the

» fans were doing their job and the humidity was at a constant 69.9% and the

» temperature 68.8F. But the cigars were covered in white *mold*, after

» talking to a friend in Casa del Habanos (in France) thats what we

» concluded it to be.

»

» I had decided in all my wisdom (being a kiwi) to smoke them anyway. So I

» cut one, put it in my mouth, closed my eyes and lit the first moldy

» cigar...

» ...

»

» What a delight! The cigar drew perfectly, the taste was chocolate and

» coriander, with hints of cedar and rimu/bark and it burnt perfectly even,

» could this mold be bloom?? Still not convinced, with service to my

» brothers on Friends of Habanos in mind, I like up 6 others in the one

» night, all the same except one which was slightly plugged ( the less

» *moldy* one ).

»

» I guess my question to the rest of you pros is, can bloom cover a cigar

» like mold, ccan it be as thick? And im talking thick!

»

» Cam

I found this article on Vitolas.net to be very enlightening.:-) [link]http://www.vitolas.net/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=1[/link]

As for mold. I have had some problems with this (those who are aware of what I'm talking about know just how much I'm understating things):-(

and I can honestly say that mold on the wrapper of the cigar, depending on if it is just white mold and not green mold, should not affect the taste of the cigar or lead to a negative smoking experience. Mold on the foot of the cigar is another matter entirely.

[wdh]

» I found this article on Vitolas.net to be very enlightening.:-)

» [link]http://www.vitolas.net/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=1[/link]

Not sure if I'm missing something but there's nothing to see/read at this link :-|

[Mark Twain]

» » I found this article on Vitolas.net to be very enlightening.:-)

» »

» [link]http://www.vitolas.net/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=1[/link]

»

» Not sure if I'm missing something but there's nothing to see/read at this

» link :-|

The link works fine for me. Just copy and past the URL into your browser if you're having trouble seeing the site or go to Vitolas.net and type in 'Plume" in the search window to find the article.

[Tampa1257]

Here is a link that I have used for years showing the differences in Mold and Blume or Plume. One thing to remember is that Mold has this fuzzy patchy quality aboiut it, and Plume or Blume looks like the cigar has a light "dusting" covering it.

http://home.alltel.net/jbperry/cig.htm

[Ken Gargett]

i had a 'MOULD/BLUME' INCIDENT YEARS AGO WITH WHICH ROB ASSISTED ME - PRETTY MUCH WHAT SMITHY said.

got a bit frantic but the world didn't end.

very interested in the exploding dom. was it a bottle of dom or was that a subtle referenece to the monk's contribution to fizz?

very rare these days for a bottle to explode if untouched. did you drop it? used to happen a lot a century ago and workers needed armour of sorts to get around the caves. also, even if one exploded, the force to then explode the rest seems extraordinary. were they well cellared? i am assuming from earlier posts they were.

what a tragedy. what vintage were the culprit and victims?

[Freefallguy]

» what a tragedy. what vintage were the culprit and victims?

I can almost hear a dirge swelling

[Mel]

I have had a box or two develope mold at 67%rh and all the others are OK I am puzzled. Have any of you seen this?

[anacostiakat]

Wilkey, Oh Wilkey? Where are you Wilkey?

[Mark Twain]

» I have had a box or two develope mold at 67%rh and all the others are OK I

» am puzzled. Have any of you seen this?

It depends on the RH level and the temp. Mold spores can become present in your humidor if you place an infected box alongside your healthy cigars. My mold issues occured long before I got the cigars and affected one brand specificly. :-(

WOAM covered in mold

Mold on the wrapper of an AF Château SG.

Mold on the foot of a cameroon Shark

The only mold I've had on Cuban cigars came from a vendor who never refunded my purchase. One of the Bolivar PCs was covered in mold.

[El Presidente]

» I have had a box or two develope mold at 67%rh and all the others are OK I

» am puzzled. Have any of you seen this?

I can bring Bloom on by violently dropping the temp of the box, then bringing it back to room temp, then a few degrees higher than room temp before violently dropping the temp again. Do this in a 3 hr timeframe and then store the box for 30 days as per normal.

[Professor Twain]

» I can bring Bloom on by violently dropping the temp of the box, then

» bringing it back to room temp, then a few degrees higher than room temp

» before violently dropping the temp again. Do this in a 3 hr timeframe and

» then store the box for 30 days as per normal.

Does this trauma induced Bloom lead to any clear improvement or decrement in the taste of the cigar? Lore is that Bloom is a good sign for cigar taste.

[Freefallguy]

» I can bring Bloom on

Why?

[Ginseng]

» I can bring Bloom on by violently dropping the temp of the box, then

» bringing it back to room temp, then a few degrees higher than room temp

» before violently dropping the temp again. Do this in a 3 hr timeframe and

» then store the box for 30 days as per normal.

The fact that you can force a cigar to exhibit bloom with this sequence of conditions changes is consistent with what I hypothesize to be the mechanism behind bloom. It also supports my suspicion that bloom consists primarily of various organic acids in the tobacco leaf.

This hypothesized mechanism coupled with published research on the characteristic chemical constituents leads me to the prediction that bloom is not indicative of a more intrinsically flavoursome cigar. That is to say that the variation in level of these organic acids across Cuban cigars is likely to be small relative to the primary flavour components and thus the appearance of bloom is not likely to correlate with a cigar's smoking quality.

Wilkey

PS. Oh, BTW, mold is either (white/fluffy/external/no effect on taste or aroma) or (not white/not fluffy/internal/gives musty aroma and taste). Bloom is flat, crystalline, sparkly, and white or off-white.

[El Presidente]

» » I can bring Bloom on

»

» Why?

I don't do it to enhance flavour. I simply noted a few years back that I had bloom develop in boxes which we extracted from the climate controlled warehouse (kept cold) only to put the cigars back in the warehouse (because they were the wrong ones) only to go back an hour later to get the cigars because we were short of that stock anyway (no...not classic Czar business practice ).

Bloom developed in all of those boxes. So I replicated the experiment (albeit more voilently in regards to temp change) and voila....it happened again.

I just wanted to see if Temp changes had anything to do with the formation of bloom. I was never comfortable with the Aged Cigar/Bloom theory because I was finding it occasionally on young stock when it arrived from PCCHK.

[Taino]

It can cover a big part of the cigar, but is (to me) a completely different thing to the eye. Pears and apples, you can say they are both white stuff on your cigars but they are 2 completely different species.

Train your eye, see the difference when you pass the finger over it, maybe buy a big magnifier to see better.

I've never smoked a cigar with any mold that tastes remotely close to good. Maybe it can happened but never has happened to me.

[Mike33]

» It can cover a big part of the cigar, but is (to me) a completely different

» thing to the eye. Pears and apples, you can say they are both white stuff

» on your cigars but they are 2 completely different species.

»

» Train your eye, see the difference when you pass the finger over it, maybe

» buy a big magnifier to see better.

»

» I've never smoked a cigar with any mold that tastes remotely close to

» good. Maybe it can happened but never has happened to me.

I have had quite a few with mold and they taste just the same to me. As long as it is WHITE and on the wrapper and not the foot.....it won't be a problem.

[tapewormboy]

» » I can bring Bloom on by violently dropping the temp of the box, then

» » bringing it back to room temp, then a few degrees higher than room temp

» » before violently dropping the temp again. Do this in a 3 hr timeframe

» and

» » then store the box for 30 days as per normal.

»

» The fact that you can force a cigar to exhibit bloom with this sequence of

» conditions changes is consistent with what I hypothesize to be the

» mechanism behind bloom. It also supports my suspicion that bloom consists

» primarily of various organic acids in the tobacco leaf.

»

» This hypothesized mechanism coupled with published research on the

» characteristic chemical constituents leads me to the prediction that bloom

» is not indicative of a more intrinsically flavoursome cigar. That is to say

» that the variation in level of these organic acids across Cuban cigars is

» likely to be small relative to the primary flavour components and thus the

» appearance of bloom is not likely to correlate with a cigar's smoking

» quality.

»

» Wilkey

»

» PS. Oh, BTW, mold is either (white/fluffy/external/no effect on taste or

» aroma) or (not white/not fluffy/internal/gives musty aroma and taste).

» Bloom is flat, crystalline, sparkly, and white or off-white.

To me, Rob's experiment sounds more like an environmental change leading to biological growth--mold. The initial temperature drop would cause condensation to suddenly occur on the cigars, leaving enough moisture for the mold spores. Raising the temperature afterwards would further put the spores in an environment that they need to flourish. Perhaps the temperature change itself signals to the spores to start growing, much like plants in the Spring. So in the end there's water and the proper temperature.

This, of course, hinges on the fact that what has been described as bloom is actually mold. A test to differentiate mold and crystallized oils would be to move the growth to a nutrient-rich agarose plate. If it continues to grow, you can be sure that it's mold. True bloom (crystallized oils) would not continue to grow as the source of the wrapper oils is gone.

[zuma]

» A test to differentiate mold and crystallized oils would be to move the growth to a nutrient-rich agarose plate. If it continues to grow, you can be sure that it's mold. True bloom (crystallized oils) would not continue to grow as the source of the wrapper oils is gone.

Nothing better than a generous dose of science to annihilate speculation and/or superstition!

I would love to know Wilkey's hypothesis on the mechanisms responsible for bloom formation (a suitable set of journal references would suffice)...

[Freefallguy]

» » » I can bring Bloom on

» »

» » Why?

»

» I don't do it to enhance flavour.

Just the answer I was looking for; I’ve read where cigars with bloom have an enhanced flavor, but the few that I have smoked show no noticeable difference. I thought my taste buds were in the minority.

They still may well be, but you helped on the bloom issue. Cheers