Storing Cigars in Winter

[Deeg]

OK, so, here's my situation. In Kyoto it gets pretty cold - not like where I grew up (Chicago). But average Jan. highs maybe 40-45 F, lows 30-ish. Too cold for ideal cigar storage, anyway. I can't afford to heat the whole room all day when I'm not home - here, at least, heating is more expensive than cooling.

The wild card here is that I have what the Japanese call yukashita storage - a compartment under the floor. I store my cigars in there as it's more temperature and humidity stable than above ground, but it still gets cold down there in the winter. The space is probably big enough to hold 2 or 3 small-medium size tupperdors, so I'm thinking - how about finding a way to heat just that?

So - any of you bright sparks have an idea for how to cost effectively do that? I could run a small lamp of some sort down there, but I don't know if a 75 watt (for example, which would cost maybe $8 a month) bulb would generate enough heat. Any other suggestions? 

Thanks in advance for your help.

[BrightonCorgi]

How cold is it inside your home?

[Deeg]

11 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

How cold is it inside your home?

When I go to work I'm gone 9-10 hours so if it's, say, 40F outside in January it'll probably be 50 in there when I get back.

[gormag38]

While I don't know the specifics of your set up and such, I would think that so long as you're not consistently going below 50/55 F you're probably good to just keep your set up as is (eg. without a heat source). 

I have kept my cigars in tupperdors and coolerdors for years in my basement in Michigan. While there is 'some' heating it's not consistent. I've never had any issues with long term aging or the cigars themselves. One of the shops in London (Davidoff I think) has their aging program with cold temps as well. There's a link somewhere that talks about it. 

[Deeg]

Yeah, I've read most of those threads but my belief is that the cigars do suffer at those temps over time - they lose their flavor oils and such. 

I wonder if something like a terrarium heater would work.

[BrightonCorgi]

It's harder to maintain humidity as temps go down. Consider a room humidifier for the room where the cigars are being stored to help maintain a base humidity throughout the day.

[Lucas Buck]

As long as you maintain steady RH the cold will not be a problem. I wouldn’t worry about it. 

[Cigar Surgeon]

8 hours ago, Deeg said:

When I go to work I'm gone 9-10 hours so if it's, say, 40F outside in January it'll probably be 50 in there when I get back.

Wow! In Canada I wouldn't let my house go very far below 60F because you'd start to run into issues of exterior pipes freezing, or other structural issues.

I came into say that my cigars are stored in the basement and typically sit around 60F to 65F most of the time with no issue. Honestly I don't think 50F will hurt them, it's just going to lower the available humidity.

[JohnS]

I remember a video interview with Eddie Sahakian around 7 to 8 years ago whereby he mentioned that the London Davidoff store maintains their cigars around a 12°C (54°F) temperature.

[Fugu]

5 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

Wow! In Canada I wouldn't let my house go very far below 60F because you'd start to run into issues of exterior pipes freezing, or other structural issues.

This!

I’d be way more concerned about my house than my cigars (those, too) under such conditions. Not so much pipe freezing as mould.

[Deeg]

19 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

Wow! In Canada I wouldn't let my house go very far below 60F because you'd start to run into issues of exterior pipes freezing, or other structural issues.

I came into say that my cigars are stored in the basement and typically sit around 60F to 65F most of the time with no issue. Honestly I don't think 50F will hurt them, it's just going to lower the available humidity.

Nobody here heats their house when they aren't in it. It's f*****g expensive. Most of the wall, AC units (central heat is basically non-existent outside Hokkaido) don't go below 18 C on the heat side, and it would cost a ton to have that running 24/7. On the rare nights it goes below freezing I leave the faucets dripping, and if it's going to stay below freezing during the day (which would be extremely rare), I would do so when I went to work as well.

[Bagman]

As someone who studying extreme long term ageing, I could only wish to have your temps. What I wouldn't give to store my cigars around 52f. Not feasible though. Closer to 59. During the summer it gets to 62 with a/c and that drives me nuts. Way too warm for long term ageing. Your statement that cigars would suffer in those conditions is not accurate, at least in my experience. Pay attention to RH as always. Heating like you wanting to do will decrease the RH in your space making it harder to maintain your RH. All summer long my area has perfect RH. Then the heaters come on during the winter and the higher maintenance follows. Just advice from someone who vacuum seals everything and runs as cold as possible for best long term results. As for the video that everyone is talking about (where the great masters also store in cold temps):  

[Deeg]

A 75 watt bulb or build heater wouldn’t impact RH much, would it?

 

[Bagman]

10 hours ago, Deeg said:

A 75 watt bulb or build heater wouldn’t impact RH much, would it?

Find any girl ever who used an easy bake oven, they are probably the expert there!

The real issue you will deal with is in your mass temp variances. That will cause all sorts of RH issues. Remembering to turn off what ever heat source you go with while you are home every time seems more hassle than it's worth. We can all have our preference with a temperature, but whatever temp you go with must be fairy consistent. Going from comfortable to having to drip your water to not freeze is a recipe for a disaster for you cigars. I would look for a climate controlled humidor.

[Deeg]

10 hours ago, Bagman said:

Find any girl ever who used an easy bake oven, they are probably the expert there!

The real issue you will deal with is in your mass temp variances. That will cause all sorts of RH issues. Remembering to turn off what ever heat source you go with while you are home every time seems more hassle than it's worth. We can all have our preference with a temperature, but whatever temp you go with must be fairy consistent. Going from comfortable to having to drip your water to not freeze is a recipe for a disaster for you cigars. I would look for a climate controlled humidor.

Well, the point of the yukashita storage is that the temperature fluctuates less than it does in the main house. 

[Fugu]

First and foremost stability is king, that’s the crucial point! Citing Davidoff London in the OPs context is apple and oranges. The Sahakians do store cool, indeed. But their storage climate is fully controlled. Rock solid.

If I read your post correctly, @Deeg, then even in your basement you incur a rather large seasonal fluctuation, or of even shorter periods, with the temperature dropping pretty low in winter.

This isn’t very well suited for long-time storage, let alone ageing / maturing cigars, as you obviously noticed yourself. Still, seemingly better than your above ground option. I would suggest, as a makeshift perhaps, instead of trying to heat that space, using containers with thick insulation to further dampen at least shorter-term temperature swings. Then, use humidifier-packs (not too few, since their response time is much lower in cold conditions) of a little lower value as you’d use at normal room temperature. At e.g. 50 F in your yukashita you shouldn’t go much above 60 rH. And do check your stash regularly. Plus perhaps just accept that your cigars will not age optimally for decades in there. But that’s probably not what you have in mind anyway. 😄

[Deeg]

53 minutes ago, Fugu said:

First and foremost stability is king, that’s the crucial point! Citing Davidoff London in the OPs context is apple and oranges. The Sahakians do store cool, indeed. But their storage climate is fully controlled. Rock solid.

If I read your post correctly, @Deeg, then even in your basement you incur a rather large seasonal fluctuation, or of even shorter periods, with the temperature dropping pretty low in winter.

This isn’t very well suited for long-time storage, let alone ageing / maturing cigars, as you obviously noticed yourself. Still, seemingly better than your above ground option. I would suggest, as a makeshift perhaps, instead of trying to heat that space, using containers with thick insulation to further dampen at least shorter-term temperature swings. Then, use humidifier-packs (not too few, since their response time is much lower in cold conditions) of a little lower value as you’d use at normal room temperature. At e.g. 50 F in your yukashita you shouldn’t go much above 60 rH. And do check your stash regularly. Plus perhaps just accept that your cigars will not age optimally for decades in there. But that’s probably not what you have in mind anyway. 😄

Well there's no basement, just literally a storage box under the floor of a one-story house. Which fluctuates less than the house itself.

I would love a climate-controlled storage but financially that's a no-go for me. I could try wrapping the tupperdor in a blanket or one of those giant insulating bags for frozen food, that might regulate the temp a bit more than the yukashita itself.

[Fugu]

17 hours ago, Deeg said:

Well there's no basement, just literally a storage box under the floor of a one-story house. Which fluctuates less than the house itself.

Ok, I didn’t realise it’s that small.

Anyways, try to keep it as temperature-stable as possible. Don’t bother too much about were exactly it sides, just see what provides most stability under your conditions, like @Bagman already mentioned. Instead of tupperdor, in your case, I’d rather go the route of insulated boxes.

Mind you, cigars stored that way might need some acclimatisation before indulging.

[Habanoschris]

23 hours ago, JohnS said:

I remember a video interview with Eddie Sahakian 

Same...I always remember he said he felt cold was better in general overall for long term aging.  

[MrBirdman]

Shame @PigFish hasn't been active lately, I'll try to convey what I've learned from him. Basically, if you are keeping your RH stable, lowering the temp will add to the moisture content of your cigars. It sounds counterintuitive given the air has less moisture, but I have confirmed in papers on tobacco curing that this is indeed the case. So in other words, 65% at 55F is closer to 70%RH at 70F. If the cold temps are purely for storage and you aren't smoking them directly, then this isn't an issue. But if you are smoking them, you might want to acclimatize them to a higher temp/lower RH for a few days.

[SUP8333]

There is no need to over complicate things.

[Deeg]

There is if you can’t afford one of those.

[MrBirdman]

5 hours ago, Deeg said:

There is if you can’t afford one of those.

Or you need a solution that makes hiding the size of your collection much easier!

[jay8354]

Maintaining a steady temperature and humidity is the key to long term aging of cigars. 

I would suggest for a cheap solution, that you get a Styrofoam box (like for produce), which is basically insulation itself to store your cigars. This should help with temperature fluctuations. 

[Montezüma]

Packed my cigars in a non air-tight cigar case flying from a tropical climate to Japan last winter and was shocked to find just how dry my cigars were after just a few days.