Esplendidos Gran Reserva ... only 600USD/cigar

[GP012]

Article from Halfwheel: https://halfwheel.com/cohiba-esplendidos-gran-reserva-cosecha-2017-arrives-in-germany-at-e540-per-cigar/442115/

On Monday, Aug. 26, La Casa del Habano franchises in Germany began selling the newest Gran Reserva cigar from Habanos S.A. In Germany, where prices are strictly controlled by the government, the cigar is priced at €540 ($601) per cigar or €8,100 ($9,000) per box of 15.

My favorite is the marketing photo showing the quality of the bands - what excellent alignment on the taino heads. But hey, it's Cuba! 🤣

[El Presidente]

Interestingly we were just discussing it yesterday on FOH Zoom. 

One of our group knows a buyer who purchased 10 boxes. 

[PartagasIV]

Ready for a reversion to mean after half of these go unsold. (Just kidding, they'll all probably sell).

[GP012]

21 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Interestingly we were just discussing it yesterday on FOH Zoom. 

One of our group knows a buyer who purchased 10 boxes. 

If one has the means, why not? If they smoke well young and are enjoyable, smoke away.

For speculation purposes, just look at how much the Sig VI Gran Reserva and Majestuoso 1966 humidors have appreciated over the years. Granted, 6k as a baseline is very high and you've got a long way to go to realize a large return, but they hit all the hype points - Cohiba, Gran Reserva, Esplendido. I'm surprised they were this late in the order of GR releases.

[El Presidente]

8 hours ago, GP012 said:

If one has the means, why not? If they smoke well young and are enjoyable, smoke away.

For speculation purposes, just look at how much the Sig VI Gran Reserva and Majestuoso 1966 humidors have appreciated over the years. Granted, 6k as a baseline is very high and you've got a long way to go to realize a large return, but they hit all the hype points - Cohiba, Gran Reserva, Esplendido.

They will be considered cheap in the years to come 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

Majestuosos are well over $1000/stick. I'd say $600/stick for these is an excellent investment. 

[Glass Half Full]

No doubt you are right...but IMO this was all meant to be for fun, not for investment.

I won't be buying Pappy anytime soon either. There's a lot of fun to be had without following the herd.

[Li Bai]

9 hours ago, El Presidente said:

One of our group knows a buyer who purchased 10 boxes. 

🤯

I have discussed these with my local retailer on Monday, he told me they were going to be sold around 10000 euros a box here in France but they wouldn't be available until 2025.

[Fugu]

"In Germany, where prices are strictly controlled by the government"

Nonsense.

[Li Bai]

50 minutes ago, Fugu said:

"In Germany, where prices are strictly controlled by the government"

Nonsense.

I don't understand, I thought prices in Germany were official, just like in France?

[MrBirdman]

16 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Interestingly we were just discussing it yesterday on FOH Zoom. 

One of our group knows a buyer who purchased 10 boxes. 

Scalpers will have almost as much a field day as the fakers on this one. 

I would buy two if I could find them, one to keep and one to sell. I haven’t a clue how I’d go about that unless I was greasing palms at a distributor. Let alone 10. I would never buy these on the secondary market, unless they were authenticated in person.

[Fugu]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:36 AM, Li Bai said:

I don't understand, I thought prices in Germany were official, just like in France?

Pricing isn’t controlled by the government, taxation is. But taxes on tobacco products are to be paid upfront, not on retail level, which is the reason why it may look from the outside like a governmental price control.

It works as follows: The German distributor 5th Avenue Trading (the entity putting the goods into circulation) is totally free to set net pricing as they please. Cigars are kept in bonded warehouse until dispatch. Before they get sent out to retail every box/unit receives its particular tax stamp. Technically, the distributor sets a final retail price (calculated incl. all taxes, i.e. tobacco tax for cigars, VAT), and tax authorities issue him the respective tax stickers. All duties are to be fixed and collected at that point, i.e. at ordering the tax stamps / goods leaving the bonded warehouse. Only after stamps are affixed to boxes like seals can cigars then be shipped to the various retail-outlets.

The effect of such an a-priori taxation is that retail isn’t able and is not allowed to change pricing afterwards. Otherwise, it would need the governmental tax to be recalculated and newly collected, which isn’t possible at that point. Basically, merchants have to request that very price from their customers that’s stamped on the tax seal. That is the reason why in Germany (and a few other EU), all new product carries the same price all across the country. And that is also the reason why you can (could) find boxes in retail of different age with different pricing…the older the cheaper. As soon as the importer/distributor decides on adjusting to a new price the game starts all over again with the new batch of cigars. What’s already on the shelves retains its original price, sometimes for years (well, those times are mostly gone…).

[Li Bai]

2 hours ago, Fugu said:

Pricing isn’t controlled by the government, taxation is.

Alright I see what you mean, in France it's the same, probably most other EU as you say 👍

[Fugu]

2 hours ago, Li Bai said:

Alright I see what you mean, in France it's the same, probably most other EU as you say 👍

Yeah, not sure about most, but many.

[Edicion]

2 hours ago, Fugu said:

Pricing isn’t controlled by the government, taxation is. But taxes on tobacco products are to be paid upfront, not on retail level, which is the reason why it may look from the outside like a governmental price control.

It works as follows: The German distributor 5th Avenue Trading (the entity putting the goods into circulation) is totally free to set net pricing as they please. Cigars are kept in bonded warehouse until dispatch. Before they get sent out to retail every box/unit receives its particular tax stamp. Technically, the distributor sets a final retail price (calculated incl. all taxes, i.e. tobacco tax for cigars, VAT), and tax authorities issue him the respective tax stickers. All duties are to be fixed and collected at that point, i.e. at ordering the tax stamps / goods leaving the bonded warehouse. Only after stamps are affixed to boxes like seals can cigars then be shipped to the various retail-outlets.

The effect of such an a-priori taxation is that retail isn’t able and is not allowed to change pricing afterwards. Otherwise, it would need the governmental tax to be recalculated and newly collected, which isn’t possible at that point. Basically, merchants have to request that very price from their customers that’s stamped on the tax seal. That is the reason why in Germany (and a few other EU), all new product carries the same price all across the country. And that is also the reason why you can (could) find boxes in retail of different age with different pricing…. the older, the cheaper. As soon as the importer/distributor decides on adjusting to a new price, the game starts all over again with the new batch of cigars. What’s already on the shelves retains its original price, sometimes for years (well, those times are mostly gone…).

This makes a lot of sense in theory, but then what if it is sold at retail as per the sticker, then resold at whatever price the new buyer pleases, would the control function not apply? I guess that's the way around it.

[Li Bai]

2 hours ago, Edicion said:

This makes a lot of sense in theory, but then what if it is sold at retail as per the sticker, then resold at whatever price the new buyer pleases, would the control function not apply? I guess that's the way around it.

Well I can only speak for France but here only "tabacs" (official B&Ms) are allowed to sell tobacco products.

[Edicion]

48 minutes ago, Li Bai said:

Well I can only speak for France but here only "tabacs" (official B&Ms) are allowed to sell tobacco products.

Are there no private cigar lounges or membership clubs that sells (at least you barn buy at) cigars in France? 

[Li Bai]

1 hour ago, Edicion said:

Are there no private cigar lounges or membership clubs that sells (at least you barn buy at) cigars in France? 

Bars, restaurants, prisons, gas stations and military barracks are allowed under strict restrictions to sell tobacco to their customers but it can only be a small amount per month and I'm not sure they have the right to sell full cigar boxes.

Individuals can't sell anything tobacco related.

[Fugu]

4 hours ago, Edicion said:

This makes a lot of sense in theory, but then what if it is sold at retail as per the sticker, then resold at whatever price the new buyer pleases, would the control function not apply? I guess that's the way around it.

Not sure I am getting your point. But not applying for a private reseller of course. Private transactions fly below the governmental radar. Same if you sell your car (or else) privately, you aren’t subject to taxation, unless it reaches commercial dimensions. Different story when you’re the holder of a car dealership…

You will notice perhaps that in countries with such a taxation scheme (tobacco) you won’t find any auction houses dealing in cigars.
 

2 hours ago, Edicion said:

Are there no private cigar lounges or membership clubs that sells (at least you barn buy at) cigars in France? 

Well, you say it - private. If commercial venture - box-price applies.

[Edicion]

9 hours ago, Li Bai said:

Bars, restaurants, prisons, gas stations and military barracks are allowed under strict restrictions to sell tobacco to their customers but it can only be a small amount per month and I'm not sure they have the right to sell full cigar boxes.

Individuals can't sell anything tobacco related.

Ok so it went from only tabacs to a wide range of places. 

8 hours ago, Fugu said:

Well, you say it - private. If commercial venture - box-price applies.

In Asia, there are many private lounges that sell, they are not individuals, they're companies, certainly commercial. They can buy directly from the distributor or shops and sell at their establishment, most often at prices way above retail. I was curious to know if this applies to other places as well.

[Li Bai]

6 hours ago, Edicion said:

Ok so it went from only tabacs to a wide range of places. 

Someone's being fussy, alright, alright, alright... I'll try to be more exhaustive then.

There are very few lounges left in France and it's not a place to buy a box, most won't let you do it.

I've never seen a gas station selling something else than cigarettes.

Prisons, well, it's for inmates only and the barracks are for the military or the firemen (they happen to belong to the military in France btw).

Restaurants will more often sell cigarettes and when they sell cigars, it's by the stick and those places are really rare, even in Paris.

No individual, no private lounge or club is allowed to sell tobacco.

So no, I definitely wouldn't say "a wide range of places". If you're looking for cigars in France, it's a tabac you're looking for and the average tabac will only sell cigarillos or J.Cortes at best...

Hope I've been thorough enough this time 😁