Buying Grey Market from China in 5-10 Years from Now?

[BrightonCorgi]

I keep reading that China is a getting a lot of current production Habanos and the Chinese have buying cigars previous to that.  Fair enough...

How confident do you feel buying Habanos 5-10 year from now (with 2020+ codes) that are from China as a source.  Do you think buying from individuals or non-authorized Habanos vendors in China will be too likely to be counterfeit products?  

Does this hurt the collectable value for amateurs in China?
 

[Bijan]

Probably not great.

Does it hurt the market in China? China's a huge market itself.

It's like if you had genuine Habanos and you lived in the US and you had to sell US only. Some effect, not huge.

[BrightonCorgi]

  On 9/18/2023 at 4:42 PM, Bijan said:

Probably not great.

Does it hurt the market in China? China's a huge market itself.

It's like if you had genuine Habanos and you lived in the US and you had to sell US only. Some effect, not huge.

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Will collectors outside of China feel comfortable buying cigars from them?

[Bijan]

  On 9/18/2023 at 4:45 PM, BrightonCorgi said:

Will collectors outside of China feel comfortable buying cigars from them?

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One off, probably not. If there's a big enough foreign market though, someone might organize it, in the style of BR and then maybe.

[El Presidente]

  On 9/18/2023 at 2:30 PM, BrightonCorgi said:

I keep reading that China is a getting a lot of current production Habanos and the Chinese have buying cigars previous to that.  Fair enough...

How confident do you feel buying Habanos 5-10 year from now (with 2020+ codes) that are from China as a source.  Do you think buying from individuals or non-authorized Habanos vendors in China will be too likely to be counterfeit products?  

Does this hurt the collectable value for amateurs in China?
 

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Chinese collectors are largely buying from western sources. Beijing LCDH isn't exactly bursting from the seams. 

I haven't yet seen a Chinese mainland sourced box of Habanos on the wider secondary western market. I am sure it happens or will happen. 

I think the secondary market will increasingly be a "high alert" zone. On BR we get to see a sliver of the attempted infiltration of fakes into the market. It is quite mindboggling. 

 

 

[TacoSauce]

  On 9/19/2023 at 9:10 PM, El Presidente said:

I haven't yet seen a Chinese mainland sourced box of Habanos on the wider secondary western market. I am sure it happens or will happen. 

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There was a box of Sancho Panza Belicosos on BR yesterday that was claimed to have been sourced from a "Chinese Vendor."

EDIT: I now realize that might not mean it was from the mainland. hard to keep track of what is and what isn't "China"

[El Presidente]

  On 9/19/2023 at 10:09 PM, TacoSauce said:

There was a box of Sancho Panza Belicosos on BR yesterday that was claimed to have been sourced from a "Chinese Vendor."

EDIT: I now realize that might not mean it was from the mainland. hard to keep track of what is and what isn't "China"

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Hong Kong certainly. PCC Home base. I will see how we can flesh that out. 

[ha_banos]

Will certainly be a challenge for the platforms to authenticate. Private sales. Nightmare. I'm steering clear.

[Nevrknow]

Other than here forget it. That or WELL and I mean WELL known members I know from here. Certainly not, " I have 30 posts, you know me. " 

I'm done regardless of origin bar the foregoing statement.

[Fireball]

China is the capital of fakes. I would never buy a private sale cigar from China. I would quit before that happened.

[BrightonCorgi]

  On 9/19/2023 at 11:08 PM, Fireball Ron said:

China is the capital of fakes. I would never buy a private sale cigar from China. I would quit before that happened.

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This kind of global sentiment really puts the value of modern Chinese collections are odds.  Beyond just cigars too.

[Greenhorn2]

Unless Rob opens a grey market business in China, it would be a hard no for me.

[Fireball]

  On 9/20/2023 at 2:17 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

This kind of global sentiment really puts the value of modern Chinese collections are odds.  Beyond just cigars too.

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Certainly beyond cigars. Any luxury goods being sold out of China would fall under this sentiment - for me at least. They is an extensive history of fakes in the clothing and fashion industry. But I would imagine that selling items domestically inside of China won’t be an issue for the collectors. It’s a very large market.

For me, I am already very cautious when I buy on BR anyways. But, if I’m looking on BR and something was coming out of China - nope.

.

[RKPStogie]

  On 9/19/2023 at 11:08 PM, Fireball Ron said:

China is the capital of fakes. I would never buy a private sale cigar from China. I would quit before that happened.

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I completely agree.