Simple Beetle Question

[eggtimer]

Hi all,

I am still confused about beetles. Perhaps some straight questions could solve some of my concerns. I would appreciate any inputs!

1) If I store a cigar at the mythological 70/70, will beetles hatch?

2) if a cigar is stored at a temperature that prevents beetles form hatching, how long will the eggs survive, i.e., how many days after can they still hatch if the climate is more accommodating?

3) If a cigar store has a box of cubans stored at 70/70 for 8 months, can it still have beetles/fertile eggs?

Thanks,

Egg

[iSneed]

Everything qban i get goes into freeze protocol regardless of the source to help prevent this. Fridge 1 day - Freezer 3 day - Fridge 1 Day and then rest for a month minimum before i touch them

[eggtimer]

48 minutes ago, iSneed said:

Everything qban i get goes into freeze protocol regardless of the source to help prevent this. Fridge 1 day - Freezer 3 day - Fridge 1 Day and then rest for a month minimum before i touch them

Oh, I was really hoping for some insights re my questions.

[NSXCIGAR]

50 minutes ago, eggtimer said:

If I store a cigar at the mythological 70/70, will beetles hatch?

Don't know where this came from but it needs to die a painful death. Eggs can technically hatch down to around 66° if I recall correctly. I'll double check that exact number. So, there's some risk of eggs hatching above that temp. At 70° they will likely hatch within a week. 

56 minutes ago, eggtimer said:

2) if a cigar is stored at a temperature that prevents beetles form hatching, how long will the eggs survive, i.e., how many days after can they still hatch if the climate is more accommodating?

I've read "many months". Freezing will kill both beetles and eggs. 

57 minutes ago, eggtimer said:

3) If a cigar store has a box of cubans stored at 70/70 for 8 months, can it still have beetles/fertile eggs?

Eggs hatch inside of a week after being laid. Your cigars may not have beetles but that may be because they've already eaten their way out of the cigars. 

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Don't know where this came from but it needs to die a painful death. Eggs can technically hatch down to around 66° if I recall correctly. I'll double check that exact number. So, there's some risk of eggs hatching above that temp. At 70° they will likely hatch within a week. 

I've read "many months". Freezing will kill both beetles and eggs. 

Eggs hatch inside of a week after being laid. Your cigars may not have beetles but that may be because they've already eaten their way out of the cigars. 

The 70/70 rule is a myth. Something made up out of thin air, like the 6 feet covid distance rule. Rubbish.

[eggtimer]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Don't know where this came from but it needs to die a painful death. Eggs can technically hatch down to around 66° if I recall correctly. I'll double check that exact number. So, there's some risk of eggs hatching above that temp. At 70° they will likely hatch within a week. 

I've read "many months". Freezing will kill both beetles and eggs. 

Eggs hatch inside of a week after being laid. Your cigars may not have beetles but that may be because they've already eaten their way out of the cigars. 

Thanks so much for the reply. I don't understand how one would then not know immediately if there is an infestation? If most cigar stores follow the myth, each box would either have

1) no beetles and there can't be any anymore since these boxes are (at least in Australia) at least 8 months old by the time one can buy them

2) has beetles and they are visible either through the damage done or the expired ones in the box?

Thanks,

Egg

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, eggtimer said:

Thanks so much for the reply. I don't understand how one would then not know immediately if there is an infestation? If most cigar stores follow the myth, each box would either have

1) no beetles and there can't be any anymore since these boxes are (at least in Australia) at least 8 months old by the time one can buy them

2) has beetles and they are visible either through the damage done or the expired ones in the box?

Thanks,

Egg

Egg, I have seen critters crawling at 17.5 degrees C.   moving slowly but moving. 

If you had a perfectly sealed environment and holding a temp below 18 C, 11 months would see you in a beetle safe state. 

That is until you introduce:

• unfrozen cigars into the store
• client lockers
• client's walking into the store with their own cigar/s.  "I loved havana Rob!, Today I am going to smoke this Yolanda Corona that I brought back"
• Faulty cooling/blackout. 

 

 

 

[eggtimer]

5 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Egg, I have seen critters crawling at 17.5 degrees C.   moving slowly but moving. 

If you had a perfectly sealed environment and holding a temp below 18 C, 11 months would see you in a beetle safe state. 

That is until you introduce:

• unfrozen cigars into the store
• client lockers
• client's walking into the store with their own cigar/s.  "I loved havana Rob!, Today I am going to smoke this Yolanda Corona that I brought back"
• Faulty cooling/blackout. 

 

 

 

Ok, thanks! Very much appreciated! You seem to have a lot of experience. I have heard from some cigar stores in Aus that they hadn't had any issues with major brand cubans since 2005 or so. (In Aus, tax is soooo high that it's not worth smoking a cheap cigar because it's relatively inexpensive to have a big brand dcuban one!)

 

Is their quality control really that good?

[El Presidente]

4 minutes ago, eggtimer said:

Ok, thanks! Very much appreciated! You seem to have a lot of experience. I have heard from some cigar stores in Aus that they hadn't had any issues with major brand cubans since 2005 or so. (In Aus, tax is soooo high that it's not worth smoking a cheap cigar because it's relatively inexpensive to have a big brand dcuban one!)

 

Is their quality control really that good?

I haven't seen a live beetle from a PCC sourced box since 2005. Habanos Freezing has been effective. We only buy from PCC however. 

If a retailer is sourcing stock from multiple sellers (some Cuban, some Dominican, some Honduran/Jamaican/Nicaraguan/Custom cigars). It only takes one cigar with one beetle to screw up the lot.  To enter the humidor it must have been frozen by either the supplier or the vendor.  

In Oz, vendor QC ranges from very good to laughable. One local vendor here use to spray his walk in humidor every Friday afternoon with a can of insecticide. 

[MossybackR]

39 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

n Oz, vendor QC ranges from very good to laughable. One local vendor here use to spray his walk in humidor every Friday afternoon with a can of insecticide. 

😳

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, eggtimer said:

Thanks so much for the reply. I don't understand how one would then not know immediately if there is an infestation?

If cigars have been sitting around in <66°F for 8 months then chances are they don't have beetles. However, beetles can enter a cigar at any time. They enter through the foot of the cigar and crawl up. The females lay eggs and the eggs hatch and they bore outwards like John Hurt in Alien. 

Beetles could have entered the cigars only hours or days before you purchase them despite the above scenario where they've been sitting at a vendor for a year. Beetles can be active at temps above 60° as Rob notes. Their eggs won't hatch however above 66°. Freeze everything you receive. 

Most cigars exported from Cuba leave very shortly after freezing or are now kept secure after freezing in Cuba, therefore almost all exported cigars are beetle-free and most distributors keep them secure as well. I can't recall the last cigar I got from overseas with beetle damage. Very rare. 

In Cuba it's a totally different story. I find beetle damage all the time in the LCDHs, particularly in 4+ year old stock. Earlier this year I found a few dozen boxes of various cigars from 15-17 and almost all of them had damage. I freeze everything I get in Cuba that same day and then freeze again when home as it's impossible to keep most of the cigars secure while in Cuba.

[eggtimer]

4 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

If cigars have been sitting around in <66°F for 8 months then chances are they don't have beetles. However, beetles can enter a cigar at any time. They enter through the foot of the cigar and crawl up. The females lay eggs and the eggs hatch and they bore outwards like John Hurt in Alien. 

Beetles could have entered the cigars only hours or days before you purchase them despite the above scenario where they've been sitting at a vendor for a year. Beetles can be active at temps above 60° as Rob notes. Their eggs won't hatch however above 66°. Freeze everything you receive. 

Most cigars exported from Cuba leave very shortly after freezing or are now kept secure after freezing in Cuba, therefore almost all exported cigars are beetle-free and most distributors keep them secure as well. I can't recall the last cigar I got from overseas with beetle damage. Very rare. 

In Cuba it's a totally different story. I find beetle damage all the time in the LCDHs, particularly in 4+ year old stock. Earlier this year I found a few dozen boxes of various cigars from 15-17 and almost all of them had damage. I freeze everything I get in Cuba that same day and then freeze again when home as it's impossible to keep most of the cigars secure while in Cuba.

Thanks so much! May I ask a follow up on my scenario: I hadn't bought cigars in 5 years so all my stock is aged and beetle free (no visible damage). Now I got a box of Hoyo and some other cigars over the last 2 months. All my cigars are in the same humidor. All from reputable vendors all very upmarket brands.

Is the only solution for me to freeze them all now? Is the home freezer good enough and is there any risk to the cigars? I do wonder how to desinfect the humidor itself?

[Ford2112]

I want to know if beetle eggs add to the flavor!

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, eggtimer said:

Thanks so much! May I ask a follow up on my scenario: I hadn't bought cigars in 5 years so all my stock is aged and beetle free (no visible damage). Now I got a box of Hoyo and some other cigars over the last 2 months. All my cigars are in the same humidor. All from reputable vendors all very upmarket brands.

Is the only solution for me to freeze them all now? Is the home freezer good enough and is there any risk to the cigars? I do wonder how to desinfect the humidor itself?

If it's a reputable vendor I wouldn't worry that much. If your temps are always below 66° you'll probably be fine. If you're really worried, freeze everything for 3 days in a standard freezer. Dry box in ziplocks for 3 days, then return to humidor. 

As far as disinfecting the humi, I believe a damp cloth or paper towels with distilled water is recommended. I like to add a splash of hydrogen peroxide to the water you're using to wipe down as well.

 

3 hours ago, Ford2112 said:

I want to know if beetle eggs add to the flavor!

Only if they're over easy with some hollandaise. 

[BrightonCorgi]

If you could train the beetles, you could manufacture flutes out of cigars.

[vladdraq]

I know they fumigate the walk-ins in Cuba, if they have beetle damaged cigars. 

 

[Corylax18]

5 minutes ago, vladdraq said:

I know they fumigate the walk-ins in Cuba, if they have beetle damaged cigars. 

 

They fumigate everything in Cuba. That's more of a Mosquito Zika, Dengue Fever, etc. issue. They didn't fumigate in Havana last summer because of the fuel shortage it was noticeably buggier. I didn't get Covid, but I did come home with Dengue. 

[vladdraq]

7 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

They fumigate everything in Cuba. That's more of a Mosquito Zika, Dengue Fever, etc. issue. They didn't fumigate in Havana last summer because of the fuel shortage it was noticeably buggier. I didn't get Covid, but I did come home with Dengue. 

happened to my group, most of them got Covid...kinda impossible to not get it when everyone touches the same serving tongs/spoons at the buffet ...

[Fuzz AI]

On 1/4/2023 at 6:04 PM, eggtimer said:

Thanks so much! May I ask a follow up on my scenario:elf?

Might want to also post an intro here while you are at it. It is customary to introduce oneself before asking the Forum for advice.

[SCgarman]

21 hours ago, vladdraq said:

happened to my group, most of them got Covid...kinda impossible to not get it when everyone touches the same serving tongs/spoons at the buffet ...

So they have buffet style restaurants in Cuba? Where are the disposable gloves?

[Corylax18]

19 minutes ago, SCgarman said:

So they have buffet style restaurants in Cuba?

At pretty much every all inclusive resort. I've also seen them at the Partagas and Habanos Festival opening dinners. Both of those have a pretty good chance of making you sick too. (they have to operate at government run facilities)

19 minutes ago, SCgarman said:

Where are the disposable gloves?

Being used several times over by medical professionals. Just like everything else, there aren't nearly enough. 

[vladdraq]

disposable gloves? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 never saw one. It's an adventure going in Cuba, they are trying though, but mentally should be prepared going back in time sometimes 50years.

[vladdraq]

They still use those sterilizable syringes like back in the 80'.

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, vladdraq said:

disposable gloves? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 never saw one. It's an adventure going in Cuba, they are trying though, but mentally should be prepared going back in time sometimes 50years.

I would imagine food buffet restaurants are likely a non-sanitary germ laden smorgasbord fit to catch something bad. Most buffet restaurants here in US at least offer the typical clear plastic disposable gloves for handling multiple food utensils for those of us germophobes. FWIW, any ambition I may have ever had to visit Cuba is gone. What's the point? No more cheap cigars, over priced government run hotels. I'd rather go to the Bahamas, Barbados or the like. I have no desire to "rough it" for some sort of bucket list accomplishment. 

[vladdraq]

well, if money is not an issue i understand. Usually is 30% cheaper than DR. Beautiful beaches. And yes, less appealing since the prices hike.