Fake Hoyo de Monterrey Epi 2 Cigar?

[benjamin831]

Bought these from an online source that easily comes up when you Google Cuban cigars. These were on sale for a good price and now I'm starting to have some buyer's remorse. The barcode checks out on Habanos SA's website but the band looks off to me. I've reached out to the vendor and they're adamant they're real (of course they are) and will not take them back. 

 

[Shrimpchips]

Is the box code from mid 2017?

 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, benjamin831 said:

but the band looks off to me.

In what way?

This latest run of fakes can be detected by the UV seal anomaly. If the serial checks out and the code is 2017 then it's probably fine. 

[Fuzz]

Welcome to FOH.

It is customary to introduce yourself here, before requesting the Forum for assistance.

[benjamin831]

1 hour ago, Shrimpchips said:

Is the box code from mid 2017?

 

No FEB 2019. Factory ABO

Also, how do you tell the date from the barcode? I plugged it into Habanos' websited but I'm not sure how to arrive at a date code from it.

 

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

In what way?

This latest run of fakes can be detected by the UV seal anomaly. If the serial checks out and the code is 2017 then it's probably fine. 

If you look at the red and gold line, I believe they're meant to be touching on the legit bands.

 

1 hour ago, Fuzz said:

Welcome to FOH.

It is customary to introduce yourself here, before requesting the Forum for assistance.

Ok, will do!

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, benjamin831 said:

No FEB 2019. Factory ABO

Also, how do you tell the date from the barcode? I plugged it into Habanos' websited but I'm not sure how to arrive at a date code from it.

That's not good. 

Here's the serial ranges by date:

2011-2013: 00001

2014: 000021-000026

2015: 000027-000029

2016: 000031-000036

2017: 000037-000039

2018: 00004

2019: 000044-000047

2020: 000047-000050

2021: 000050-000053

2022: 000053-

1 hour ago, benjamin831 said:

If you look at the red and gold line, I believe they're meant to be touching on the legit bands.

I don't see anything jumping out at me but band anomalies are usually the least persuasive evidence of fakery. 

Can you take a blacklight to the seal? It's really the best evidence there is today. That'll be the decider. With the serial out of sequence I'd say 50/50 the UV seal checks out. 

You're looking for either a missing patch or numbers here:

[vladdraq]

Cubans "on sale" at good price it's a giveaway nowadays.

[vladdraq]

there is a box of Epicure no 1 on 24:24, looks different to me...

[Arabian]

Band looks off to me, the band dots and crown I think supposed to be raised (run your fingers) HDM position and font seems odd.  

[ha_banos]

A reference for bands. Sometimes the dots touch and not touch!

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/brand/hoyo-de-monterrey/bands

 

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/img/brandbands/hoyo-de-monterrey-standard-band-e_1400x366.jpg

 

[benjamin831]

18 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

That's not good. 

Here's the serial ranges by date:

2011-2013: 00001

2014: 000021-000026

2015: 000027-000029

2016: 000031-000036

2017: 000037-000039

2018: 00004

2019: 000044-000047

2020: 000047-000050

2021: 000050-000053

2022: 000053-

I don't see anything jumping out at me but band anomalies are usually the least persuasive evidence of fakery. 

Can you take a blacklight to the seal? It's really the best evidence there is today. That'll be the decider. With the serial out of sequence I'd say 50/50 the UV seal checks out.

Thanks for the date code reference, that's invaluable. 

I haven't yet done the blacklight test yet, as I don't have a UV light on hand. But I read something about the microcode in the warranty seal matching the main barcode and unfortunately none of the microcodes match. 

I think between the datecode, microcodes, and sketchy band, there's enough doubt to confirm what we probably knew from the start that these are fake Cubans. Thanks guys!

I think the question now is what to do about them. Should I toss them or do you think they're safe to smoke? They seem really well made so I suppose they might be just rebanded non-Cubans? It's real shame indeed.

[ha_banos]

21 minutes ago, benjamin831 said:

Thanks for the date code reference, that's invaluable. 

I haven't yet done the blacklight test yet, as I don't have a UV light on hand. But I read something about the microcode in the warranty seal matching the main barcode and unfortunately none of the microcodes match. 

I think between the datecode, microcodes, and sketchy band, there's enough doubt to confirm what we probably knew from the start that these are fake Cubans. Thanks guys!

I think the question now is what to do about them. Should I toss them or do you think they're safe to smoke? They seem really well made so I suppose they might be just rebanded non-Cubans? It's real shame indeed.

Whoah. If the micro printed codes don't match the main bar code. You have enough evidence. Go back to the vendor, tell them this, send them a note of the reddit thread on this subject or some of the articles being published. Demand a refund. And please, PM me the source if you don't mind!

[Bigkahuna]

They are fugazi. Reach out to @Tstew75 @gregspringer1 

[Silverstix]

4 hours ago, benjamin831 said:

But I read something about the microcode in the warranty seal matching the main barcode and unfortunately none of the microcodes match. 

Yes, this is a conversation killer.  Look no further.  Fake 100%.  Sorry you're dealing with this.  Demand the refund and if you don't mind can you also PM me the name of the vendor?

Very interested to see how this one plays out

[NSXCIGAR]

8 hours ago, benjamin831 said:

But I read something about the microcode in the warranty seal matching the main barcode and unfortunately none of the microcodes match. 

Yep, that's enough. I hadn't even asked about that as many of this recent wave of fakes we've seen does have matching numbers so that alone can't confirm authenticity but if they don't match it's an automatic fail. Although many authentic cigars do have the 999999999 anomaly in the microprint, mismatching numbers is probative for fakes. 

I would contact the vendor as non matching numbers is a serious red flag and get a full refund and never do business with them again. I would also PM @Cigar Salute and let him know the background on these. He's the main man when it comes to chasing down vendors selling fakes.

[benjamin831]

OK, I reached out to the company and they dismissed the microcodes matching being a real issue, saying that they don't have to necessarily match. However, they have nothing to say about the dodgy bands, which I thought was weird.

Nonetheless, they said they would allow me to return for a refund, however, because it has a been several months since I purchased it, their system cannot process a refund anymore. I'm not sure how true that is. I did leave it in my humidor for a few months since I bought it before I became suspicious. I stupidly just assumed all was well when the barcode checked out on Habano SA's website, datecode notwithstanding. 

 

[vladdraq]

change them for something not faked, at least you'll have peace of mind. 

[ha_banos]

"they dismissed the microcodes matching being a real issue, saying that they don't have to necessarily match. " - they DNGAF

As mentioned above, I'd hope you reach out to @Cigar Salute with all the details. Hope we can name them too.

Boils my blood.

[NSXCIGAR]

9 hours ago, benjamin831 said:

saying that they don't have to necessarily match.

That's funny--they match on every (real) box I've ever had. I guess their batch is the exception...

If they don't let you return for a full refund tell them you'll do a charge back on your credit card and expose them on Reddit for selling fakes. 

Regardless, I hope @Cigar Salute gets the details on this and gets to the bottom of it. 

We've gone from CoRo to Hoyo Epi in less than a week. PSD4 is next I'm sure and then what, RG Perlas?

[benjamin831]

2 hours ago, vladdraq said:

change them for something not faked, at least you'll have peace of mind. 

I'm not sure if that's really an option. If they can fake this at this level, and not seem to admit it. Then it's probably safe to assume all their inventory is fake? I might be wrong.

I'm still pushing for a refund but have to say it's not looking too optimistic. Thankfully it wasn't outrageously expensive, but still money down the drain. 

Will definitely reach out to @Cigar Salute with the information about this vendor. 

[vladdraq]

41 minutes ago, benjamin831 said:

I'm not sure if that's really an option. If they can fake this at this level, and not seem to admit it. Then it's probably safe to assume all their inventory is fake? I might be wrong.

I'm still pushing for a refund but have to say it's not looking too optimistic. Thankfully it wasn't outrageously expensive, but still money down the drain. 

Will definitely reach out to @Cigar Salute with the information about this vendor. 

I would change them for something non cuban, from the higher end side. 

[Tstew75]

9 hours ago, Bigkahuna said:

They are fugazi. Reach out to @Tstew75 @gregspringer1 

Appreciate the tag.

OP, can you PM me where these were sourced from?

[benjamin831]

1 hour ago, vladdraq said:

I would change them for something non cuban, from the higher end side. 

Good idea!

I'm unsettled by how sophisticated fakes have become and it really pays to be vigilant. But I'm also relieved that how easy it is still to spot a fake, it just takes some quick research online. That being said, I'm sure tons of people are being scammed by these online stores and are none the wiser. Such as this poor fella. The band is 100% a carbon copy of my dodgy bands. I won't be surprised if he got it from the same source as I did:

https://www.casasfumando.com/hoyo-de-monterrey-epicure-no-2-cuban/

Lesson learnt. 

[vladdraq]

4 hours ago, benjamin831 said:

 Such as this poor fella. The band is 100% a carbon copy of my dodgy bands. I won't be surprised if he got it from the same source as I did:

https://www.casasfumando.com/hoyo-de-monterrey-epicure-no-2-cuban/

Lesson learnt. 

Doesn't look like triple cap to me. Not even getting into the details...

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, Tstew75 said:

Appreciate the tag.

OP, can you PM me where these were sourced from?

And/or @benjamin831, let us know if if this is even a trusted vendor. Coming up on a Google search doesn't mean this is a legit vendor. There is at least one vendor that is very prominent in a search that has been the most famous purveyors of fakes for about 20 years, still going strong. In fact a notorious faker comes up in the first four results for me.

If it's not a trusted vendor it's something of a false alarm, but it is still surprising how good the quality of the seal is. If you are able I'd like to see the UV seal.