Silverstix Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Bijan said: Yeah there's a long list of things my son knows are for adults: Wine is for grown ups, Knives "is" for grown ups, Etc. Yeah man, parenting is the front line of defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigar Surgeon Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 17 hours ago, Fuzz said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cigar Surgeon Posted March 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 5, 2022 I just finished watching over 7 hours of the NASEM panel meetings, the group who was tasked by the FDA to study premium cigars as a category for health impacts, how they're marketed, etc. My takeaways: The panel essentially knows nothing about cigars. Most of the experts believe that there is not a significant difference between a cigarillo and a premium hand made cigar There is next to zero solid scientific study data available controlled for premium hand made cigars and cigar smokers Their report is being released next Thursday morning, and I will be attending the session I am expecting a worse case scenario after listening to the evidence and discussions so far If you asked me: Do I believe that this panel would find that cigar companies like Privada or JSK have marketed towards kids based on the packaging? The answer would confidently be yes, absolutely, 100% this panel would find that. 8 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meesterjojo Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Trash trash trash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enduin Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 3 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said: I just finished watching over 7 hours of the NASEM panel meetings, the group who was tasked by the FDA to study premium cigars as a category for health impacts, how they're marketed, etc. My takeaways: The panel essentially knows nothing about cigars. Most of the experts believe that there is not a significant difference between a cigarillo and a premium hand made cigar There is next to zero solid scientific study data available controlled for premium hand made cigars and cigar smokers Their report is being released next Thursday morning, and I will be attending the session I am expecting a worse case scenario after listening to the evidence and discussions so far If you asked me: Do I believe that this panel would find that cigar companies like Privada or JSK have marketed towards kids based on the packaging? The answer would confidently be yes, absolutely, 100% this panel would find that. Isn't it amazing how often a panel specifically chosen to assess and decide on something knows absolutely nothing about the very thing they are assessing? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain Karl Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Enduin said: Isn't it amazing how often a panel specifically chosen to assess and decide on something knows absolutely nothing about the very thing they are assessing? I’m sure the panel is political, not chosen on merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigar Surgeon Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 12 hours ago, Kaptain Karl said: I’m sure the panel is political, not chosen on merit. Actually I would say they're fairly apolitical based on the discussions I've listened to. They're all academics, and most of them seem genuinely interested in finding out information. The biggest issue is that most of the studies they're presented with have poor or incomplete data, and/or the experts that are providing that information can't answer basic questions that are asked because the area hasn't been researched. There's one of the panelist members, I believe he's a Professor, and he's asked some laser focused questions that highlight most of the information being presented on health risks, advertising and usage with kids doesn't control for 'premium cigars' at all, which is what they're supposed to be investigating. I hope I have the opportunity to address the panel on Thursday when they release their findings. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enduin Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 44 minutes ago, Cigar Surgeon said: Actually I would say they're fairly apolitical based on the discussions I've listened to. They're all academics, and most of them seem genuinely interested in finding out information. The biggest issue is that most of the studies they're presented with have poor or incomplete data, and/or the experts that are providing that information can't answer basic questions that are asked because the area hasn't been researched. There's one of the panelist members, I believe he's a Professor, and he's asked some laser focused questions that highlight most of the information being presented on health risks, advertising and usage with kids doesn't control for 'premium cigars' at all, which is what they're supposed to be investigating. I hope I have the opportunity to address the panel on Thursday when they release their findings. Please keep us posted! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairo Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 On 3/2/2022 at 10:21 AM, jakebarnes said: I unfortunately spend time trying to counsel marketing types on how to not be an idiot--they rarely take my advice. Your time might be better spent trying to get senior management to fire them before they cause real damage. Sometimes that actually works. 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ha_banos Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Wow. Quite an interesting thing to follow! But I'm sure these guys are looking around and seeing markets behaviour Where's the plain packaging... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MrBirdman Posted March 8, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2022 On 3/5/2022 at 3:39 PM, Cigar Surgeon said: If you asked me: Do I believe that this panel would find that cigar companies like Privada or JSK have marketed towards kids based on the packaging? The answer would confidently be yes, absolutely, 100% this panel would find that. What is essential to keep in mind here too is the history of tobacco marketing in the US - specifically cigarettes. The reason why the FDA and regulatory agencies around the globe have such a strong anti-tobacco bias is that cigarette manufacturers perpetrated the greatest collective act of corporate malfeasance in human history during the 20th century. Their actions included research into how to market cigarettes effectively to children. The lesson coming out of that entire era was, simply, that tobacco manufacturers cannot be trusted. Are cigarettes the same as cigars, with respect to health or user demographic? NO, of course not, and no one here would dispute that. But to the FDA, the trustworthiness of premium cigar manufacturers is a matter of assertion that must be consistently demonstrated. It is not whether a marketing decision will actually appeal to children that is really at issue here - it is whether anyone can construe that marketing as too appealing to children. CM's article challenged anyone to defend the need for this kind of marketing, to which Privada replied that "there is absolutely a need- if the maker deems it so. It’s integral for the creation of an authentic, artistic product." I don't know much about creating or marketing cigars, but that claim strikes me as disingenuous to the point of being self-satirical. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodStix Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 3 hours ago, MrBirdman said: But to the FDA, the trustworthiness of premium cigar manufacturers is a matter of assertion that must be consistently demonstrated. It is not whether a marketing decision will actually appeal to children that is really at issue here - it is whether anyone can construe that marketing as too appealing to children. CM's article challenged anyone to defend the need for this kind of marketing... Well said. Thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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