Embargo turns 60.

[NSXCIGAR]

4 hours ago, ElJavi76 said:

I just don’t agree that for 60 years the Cuban voters in Florida have been the biggest hurdle to ending the embargo.

It doesn't seem so, but since FL became the most important swing state in 2000 the Democrats are desperate to win it and the Republicans desperate to hang on to it. Certainly the presidency but don't forget FL had a Democrat senator until 2018. The Senate may be much more important and the Miami Cubans are critical votes in those races. Neither party's candidates can afford to risk losing the Miami Cuban vote. 

I don't know if there's any other explanation for the lack of momentum in ending the Embargo. Not even Obama--the most progressive politician on Cuban policy--ever made any serious push to end it. 

I don't see ending the Embargo as a viable policy proposal. It's a radioactive issue for both parties that see it as something that can only lose them votes in possibly the most strategically important state. 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:01 AM, RichG said:

do you think the majority of Cuban Americans at this point in time generally support the embargo, or do you think there are more divides along factors such as age?

Incredibly, it appears the Embargo is increasing in popularity 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna957266

[El Presidente]

I love my Miami Cuban mate who wears his MAGA hat, loves the USA, marches in every protest supporting liberation of the Cuban people ....and is stridently anti embargo. 

We discussed this at last week's FOH Zoom session. On this issue Cubans come in all colours. 

[juri]

just ask yourself this, if there is a embargo for cuba solely for ethical and just reason's with no bias  then ....... why is there no embargo on china? or countless other countries responsible  for crimes against humanity?

[NSXCIGAR]

25 minutes ago, juri said:

just ask yourself this, if there is a embargo for cuba solely for ethical and just reason's with no bias  then ....... why is there no embargo on china? or countless other countries responsible  for crimes against humanity?

I don't think anyone denies the hypocrisy of the policy. Do you think any politician could even engage in a thoughtful discussion of the Embargo? Of course not. So it has truly evolved into a non-political issue. The status quo rules. The Democrats don't openly condemn it and the Republicans don't openly support it. Neither party risks losing votes that way. Very few non-Cuban or Hispanic Americans give a second of thought to the Cuban Embargo. There's very few votes to be gained and many to be lost by challenging the status quo on this issue. 

[ElJavi76]

Little footnote here for context… they once pointed missiles at the US. Other countries might have horrible human rights records and be bigger threats today to the US. However, Cuba pointed guns at the US. 
 

If someone held a gun to your head and then apologized (which Cuba hasn’t) profusely, would you all of a sudden be like, yeah this guy’s cool? We sell more goods to Cuba than anyone else. The embargo is a farce. Cuba could end it but there’d rather identify as the victim. The real victims are their citizens. 
 

On the Florida swing state thing… I’m sure there are Cuban democrats out there and plenty of them. (Roughly 38% of registered Cubans identify as Dem) In south Florida they’re outnumbered. What Democrat is clinging on to Cuban votes in Florida? Last general election cycle Florida went to the losing candidate and it’s happened a dozen times. The idea that the more liberal party wants to garner Cuban votes is laughable to me. Florida may have become a bigger swing state since 2000, but by then the embargo was already 40 years old. Eager to end the embargo? Talk to the PCC and tell them to quit the blame game and help their citizens live a normal life. 

[Corylax18]

On 2/6/2022 at 1:11 AM, NSXCIGAR said:

I don't see ending the Embargo as a viable policy proposal. It's a radioactive issue for both parties that see it as something that can only lose them votes in possibly the most strategically important state. 

 

On 2/6/2022 at 6:05 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

There's very few votes to be gained and many to be lost by challenging the status quo on this issue. 

Its this more than Florida, in my eye. The vast Majority of US citizens and politicians view the entire situation with total apathy. If they even think/talk about it. 

This apathy is born from ignorance in most cases and isn't a malicious thing, but its very real. 

[Fuzz]

46 minutes ago, ElJavi76 said:

Little footnote here for context… they once pointed missiles at the US. Other countries might have horrible human rights records and be bigger threats today to the US. However, Cuba pointed guns at the US. 
 

 

So does Russia and China. You think they don't have nukes locked on to targets in the US right now? And vice versa with the US.

[NSXCIGAR]

9 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Its this more than Florida, in my eye. The vast Majority of US citizens and politicians view the entire situation with total apathy.

Correct, only the Miami Cubans care. But the Miami Cubans are seen as a critical vote by US political experts. FL is key to the presidency and key to the Senate. Without the Miami Cubans the Senate flips one seat (meaning the whole senate can flip) and the presidency is likely flipped. They may be the most important voting bloc in the US right now. They care, and they want the embargo to stay. They dictate the policy because it unites the most of them.

The bottom line is that no politician will win net votes in any state opposing the embargo (as no one cares) and will always lose net votes in FL--the state no one can afford to lose. This makes opposing the embargo politically foolish. Politicians will always ignore or be apathetic about things that they don't see as important issues. The embargo is definitely unimportant for nearly all Americans and the few who it is important to lean 70% one way.

[El Presidente]

10 hours ago, ElJavi76 said:

Little footnote here for context… they once pointed missiles at the US. Other countries might have horrible human rights records and be bigger threats today to the US. However, Cuba pointed guns at the US. 

.....oh how many holes do you really need punched in this argument....

Love you mate 

[ElJavi76]

10 hours ago, Fuzz said:

So does Russia and China. You think they don't have nukes locked on to targets in the US right now? And vice versa with the US.

 

58 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

oh how many holes do you really need punched in this argument....

 

Where is the Chinese Missile Crisis… I don’t watch much news these days maybe I missed it. Cuba tried flexing on the US in the 60s cause they had USSR backing. Now they got who? Made your bed, now sleep in it. 
 

Breaking news, I hate communists. I’d say my stance is rather cemented in real visceral emotion. Not a thing I read or discuss could ever change that sentiment. Take what I type as just another opinion. I will never view the Cuban govt as some innocent victims. There’s plenty of hypocrisy from the US dealing with other totalitarian govts. However, being a nuclear threat isn’t equal to what happened in the 60s with the missile crisis. You can believe that. I don’t subscribe to that ideology. 

[El Presidente]

smokecreens.  

How many wars and conflicts has the US been involved in since the 1962?  

Have no doubt what the objective of the embargo was. 

Overthrow via decreasing real wages and the creation of hunger and desperation. 

 

It is time for a new approach. 

 

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”  Einstein

 

[Fuzz]

Funny how history sees the Cuban Missile Crisis as being between the US and USSR. Even the US State Department recognises it as such.

From the US State Dept website:

"After the failed U.S. attempt to overthrow the Castro regime in Cuba with the Bay of Pigs invasion, and while the Kennedy administration planned Operation Mongoose, in July 1962 Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev reached a secret agreement with Cuban premier Fidel Castro to place Soviet nuclear missiles in Cuba to deter any future invasion attempt."

Who pointed the gun first?

[ElJavi76]

Cuba was a pawn ♟ and we all know what happens to pawns. They were a willing pawn. Their muscle has since left them in the lurch. The false bravado does nothing for Cubans. 

[BrightonCorgi]

11 hours ago, ElJavi76 said:

Where is the Chinese Missile Crisis… I don’t watch much news these days maybe I missed it. Cuba tried flexing on the US in the 60s cause they had USSR backing. Now they got who? Made your bed, now sleep in it.

I would not rule out China leasing land in Haiti, Cuba, or somewhere close to the US in the Caribbean as military base in the not so distant future.  China already has shipping ports in the region and those could easily be cover for something else if need be.