The Insanity Continues

[Corylax18]

The Biden Admin just announce more Viase restrictions for 8 more members of the Cuban Government. 

Maybe doing the same thing will result in a different result this time. Maybe. 

I refuse to give up all optimism, but it gets harder every day. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/us-announces-travel-ban-8-cuban-officials-crackdown-protesters-rcna11343

[anacostiakat]

While it is good seeing these types of announcements I don't think it will result in much.  

[Bijan]

4 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

The Biden Admin just announce more Viase restrictions for 8 more members of the Cuban Government. 

Definitely doesn't make me any less cynical given what some other countries are up to in terms of domestic and even international repression and the US response to those.

But practically it's not like those Cuban officials were going to the US soon anyways.

[Nino]

The insanity continues ... in Cuba.

I don't see anything wrong with the Visa restrictions to people oppressing protesters.

https://translatingcuba.com/united-states-sanctions-eight-more-cuban-officials-for-their-role-in-repression/

United States Sanctions Eight More Cuban Officials for Their Role in Repression

EFE/14ymedio, Washington/Havana, 6 January 2022 — The US State Department announced on Thursday the imposition of visa restrictions on eight more Cuban officials, whose identities were not disclosed, for the arrest and prosecution of people who participated in the July 11 protests.

“The State Department took measures today to impose visa restrictions on eight Cuban officials implicated in attempts to silence the voices of the Cuban people through repression, unjust detentions and harsh prison sentences,” Secretary of State Antony Blinken explained in a statement.

Blinken said that about 600 protesters remain in jail, some of them “in deteriorating health conditions and without access to food, medicine or calls to their loved ones.”

Although Blinken has not revealed the names of those sanctioned, it could be the prosecutors who have requested excessive sentences against the protesters and whose names have been disseminated in recent days through social networks.

The July 11 protests, unprecedented on the island in more than six decades, brought thousands of Cubans to the streets shouting for freedom and demanding the resignation of President Miguel Díaz-Canel. The demonstrations came amid aggravated food and medicine shortages, prolonged power outages and rampant inflation.

These demonstrations, which included peaceful marches, clashes with the police and occasional looting, were followed by a wave of arrests of hundreds of people critical of the government.

The playwright Yunior García Aguilera, one of the leaders of the Archipelago platform and the main promoter of 15N (15 November), had to leave Cuba after the acts of repudiation against him orchestrated by the regime. After getting off an Iberia flight, together with his wife, Dayana Prieto, he said he was arriving in Spain “with our ideas intact.”

Last November, the United States announced sanctions against nine other Cuban officials against whom it imposed visa restrictions. Through his Twitter account, Secretary of State Antony Blinken then announced the measure and reiterated his administration’s support for the island’s people “in their fight for fundamental freedoms.”

Those sanctions sought to penalize “those who undermine the ability of the Cuban people to improve their political, economic and security conditions” in the face of the repression against the Civic March of 15N, Blinken explained. However, the official did not offer details about who has been the target of these measures.

The State Department, in response to an email sent shortly after from the 14ymedio newsroom, also declined to reveal the names of those punished. “We are taking steps to suspend the entry into the United States of nine people, including high-ranking members of the Ministries of the Interior and the Armed Forces.”

[Corylax18]

9 minutes ago, Nino said:

I don't see anything wrong with the Visa restrictions to people oppressing protesters.

I don't see anything "wrong" with it. But its totally unproductive. 

As @Bijan stated, none of these restrictions actually change anything. Its just optics, bullshit optics, to make it "look" like we care. This doesn't help the Cuban people at all, it doesn't improve the situation at all. Its just one more cut to the nose, one more empty gesture in a string of them.

If Joe ACTUALLY cared about the situation Western Union would be operating down there again, the travel restrictions would be lifted again. There is a list of actions a mile long that could be taken to start improving the situation. But instead, the state department is wasting their time drawing up this bullshit. 

The Insanity continues on Both Sides of the Straits.  

[Nino]

40 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

I don't see anything "wrong" with it. But its totally unproductive. 

As @Bijan stated, none of these restrictions actually change anything. Its just optics, bullshit optics, to make it "look" like we care. This doesn't help the Cuban people at all, it doesn't improve the situation at all. Its just one more cut to the nose, one more empty gesture in a string of them.

If Joe ACTUALLY cared about the situation Western Union would be operating down there again, the travel restrictions would be lifted again. There is a list of actions a mile long that could be taken to start improving the situation. But instead, the state department is wasting their time drawing up this bullshit. 

The Insanity continues on Both Sides of the Straits.  

OK - so let's continue to oppress peaceful protesters and sentence them to 10 - 20 years  in prison for a protest walk in the street.

Totally unproductive you say ? Wonder what you'd say being sentenced yourself for being a peaceful protester  ...

So restrictions don't change anything - just to make it look we care ? How many "official" Cubans make it to the US and have a very comfortable life returning to Cuba after 365 + 1 day to live it up like nothing happened and happy to be back in Cuba ?
I am sure those 8 Cuban officials sanctioned would rather live in Maiamee than stay in Havana. Might change their attitude.

Sure, let's WU operate again and make good profits for GAESA - the military arm controlling all of Cuba's economy.
Paying out 24 CUP a Greenbuck instead of 73 CUP at the street market rate. What a bad joke.

Easy solution - vote for a change in US policy.

As long as that doesn't happen, it is what it is. Grin and bear it.

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, Nino said:

OK - so let's continue to oppress peaceful protesters and sentence them to 10 - 20 years  in prison for a protest walk in the street.

 

The normal course of action, If they actually cared about the protesters, is for the Biden administration to open up discussions about remittances on the proviso that those jailed protesters (they would have the list), are released or sentences reduced to 6 months or whatever. 

However, putting up bans for people who can fly anywhere else but the US........makes more sense. 

 

[Nino]

13 hours ago, El Presidente said:

The normal course of action, If they actually cared about the protesters, is for the Biden administration to open up discussions about remittances on the proviso that those jailed protesters (they would have the list), are released or sentences reduced to 6 months or whatever. 

 

While I still don't see why peaceful protesters ( including minors ) should be sentenced to anything and less so having arbitrary "sentences reduced" the question of remittances is a bonanza for the regime as long as that money is only paid out in local toilet paper at official rates and not in US$ or other hard currency ....

PS : Just found this article of an upcoming trial of protesters in Holguin next week, 15 to 30 years jail and 15 years jail for minors :

More than twenty 11J protesters will be tried in Holguín
Prosecution requests range from 15 to 30 years of deprivation of liberty.
In the case of minors under 18 years of age, the prosecution request is 15 years
Camila Acosta Friday, January 7, 2022

https://www.cubanet.org/noticias/mas-de-una-veintena-de-manifestantes-del-11j-seran-enjuiciados-en-holguin/

[BrightonCorgi]

You'd think Biden would open up everything towards Cuba since he does a 180 on everything Trump did.  Would be almost expected that the embargo whould removed 100% with his course of actions so far.

[Bijan]

6 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

You'd think Biden would open up everything towards Cuba since he does a 180 on everything Trump did.  Would be almost expected that the embargo whould removed 100% with his course of actions so far.

Yeah I think American politicians have learned there are only votes on one side of this issue (in Florida a key state in terms of elections). So it might be a while before anyone decides to go the way Obama did or wanted to go.

This is not the only such issue, where you'd expect the 2 party system to have one party go one way and the other go the other, but in practice only one key demographic cares about the issue, so policy is pretty much frozen.

[Corylax18]

21 hours ago, Nino said:

OK - so let's continue to oppress peaceful protesters and sentence them to 10 - 20 years  in prison for a protest walk in the street.

Totally unproductive you say ? Wonder what you'd say being sentenced yourself for being a peaceful protester  ...

So restrictions don't change anything - just to make it look we care ? How many "official" Cubans make it to the US and have a very comfortable life returning to Cuba after 365 + 1 day to live it up like nothing happened and happy to be back in Cuba ?
I am sure those 8 Cuban officials sanctioned would rather live in Maiamee than stay in Havana. Might change their attitude.

Sure, let's WU operate again and make good profits for GAESA - the military arm controlling all of Cuba's economy.
Paying out 24 CUP a Greenbuck instead of 73 CUP at the street market rate. What a bad joke.

Easy solution - vote for a change in US policy.

As long as that doesn't happen, it is what it is. Grin and bear it.

Nino, You and I agree on the goal. But these nine guys would have never made it into the the US, regardless of the most recent sanctions. They are members of a government that is a "state sponsor of terror" They would be detained at the airport and imprisoned, before these new "changes" where made. 

I'm all for punishing the Regime in general and Specific individuals for the crimes they are committing, but this isn't it. At all. These "restrictions" don't actually change anything. 

I've never voted in Florida and I probably never will. Beyond that I feel a bit powerless to change things here. Without diving into US politics too deep, my vote in the last election hasn't generated the change in policy I had been hoping for.

[Corylax18]

57 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Yeah I think American politicians have learned there are only votes on one side of this issue (in Florida a key state in terms of elections). So it might be a while before anyone decides to go the way Obama did or wanted to go.

This is not the only such issue, where you'd expect the 2 party system to have one party go one way and the other go the other, but in practice only one key demographic cares about the issue, so policy is pretty much frozen.

Yup, there is very little political gain for any politician, affiliated with either party, anywhere in the country to change the policy drastically. Obama only really did it on his way out, he didn't have much to lose.

[BrightonCorgi]

33 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

Yup, there is very little political gain for any politician, affiliated with either party, anywhere in the country to change the policy drastically. Obama only really did it on his way out, he didn't have much to lose.

Well, there is a lot of debate on that.  Cuba is a huge opportunity for corporations and special interest of all sorts (as is keeping the embargo).  It depends who your political backers are.   Florida is much more red than it has ever been and not the the swing state of 20 years ago. 

Biden knows he cannot win Florida on his re-election campaign.  So why not lift the Embargo?  Ending the war in Afghanistan and ending the embargo in Cuba would be his legacy.

[Nino]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

You'd think Biden would open up everything towards Cuba since he does a 180 on everything Trump did.  Would be almost expected that the embargo whould removed 100% with his course of actions so far.

Ha !

That is the Cuban regime thinking - which is also why they don't do any changes, they just assume that some administration will be benevolent to them and they get a free ride.
They hoped and expected Hillary to win and got Trump. Big mistake. They hoped for Biden to be sugar daddy - failed again...
By now they must be checking the Tarot cards ....

44 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

But these nine guys would have never made it into the the US, regardless of the most recent sanctions. They are members of a government that is a "state sponsor of terror" They would be detained at the airport and imprisoned, before these new "changes" where made. 

 

I read too many reports of exiled Cubans and not-exiled Cubans being free to fly to Miami and have a good time there to have faith in those comments.
Like Rafael Serrano, the chief presenter and mouthpiece of Cuban gvmt. tv news flying in & out of MIA and as I commented before, too many that abuse the US laws, come in as refugees, and after 365 days + 1 start flying back to Cuba as mules and to have a good time.

 

[Nino]

14 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Biden knows he cannot win Florida on his re-election campaign.  So why not lift the Embargo?  Ending the war in Afghanistan and ending the embargo in Cuba would be his legacy.

Hmmmm - not diving into US poltics here and if not appropiate please delete - but :

The war in Afghanistan was not ended by JB, he just made a tremendous mess of a deal struck by DT and left pants down in a shit show that will haunt the US foreign relations for many decades like the pic of that chopper out of Saigon in 1975.

[Corylax18]

2 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Well, there is a lot of debate on that.

There is? What exactly does a senator from California, Texas or Massachusetts have to gain from pushing to lift the embargo? Most Americans know nothing about the situation and don't care to learn. It doesn't matter, at all, to the vast majority of Americans.  The number of Americans that can discuss this in the detail we are is Tiny, and the number of Americans with a Real, vested interest is even smaller.

 

2 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Ending the war in Afghanistan and ending the embargo in Cuba would be his legacy.

If he's going to handle this like he handled that, I would rather he do nothing at all. 

[Corylax18]

2 hours ago, Nino said:

 

I read too many reports of exiled Cubans and not-exiled Cubans being free to fly to Miami and have a good time there to have faith in those comments.
Like Rafael Serrano, the chief presenter and mouthpiece of Cuban gvmt. tv news flying in & out of MIA and as I commented before, too many that abuse the US laws, come in as refugees, and after 365 days + 1 start flying back to Cuba as mules and to have a good time.

 

Cuban Exiles, Certainly. They're welcomed with open arms. Or they where at least. Non exiled, active members of the Cuban Government or Military not so much. I cant say its never happened, but I'm certainly not aware of it. 

Rafael Serrano is/was not a member of the Government. He also wasn't a journalist. I'm really not sure what to call him, but those trips ended up costing him his job, rightfully so. 

I'm also OK with Refugee's becoming mules. If not for those mules many Cubans would be dead or in even worse positions than they are now. I dont like the huge profits they make, especially from the pockets of their former country man. It's a terrible system for sure, but I see it as "Don't hate the player, hate the game." 

[Nino]

29 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

I'm also OK with Refugee's becoming mules. If not for those mules many Cubans would be dead or in even worse positions than they are now. I dont like the huge profits they make, especially from the pockets of their former country man. It's a terrible system for sure, but I see it as "Don't hate the player, hate the game." 

So you hate the game .... but like to keep the player happy. Good luck to mental distortion.

 

[BrightonCorgi]

6 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

There is? What exactly does a senator from California, Texas or Massachusetts have to gain from pushing to lift the embargo? Most Americans know nothing about the situation and don't care to learn. It doesn't matter, at all, to the vast majority of Americans.  The number of Americans that can discuss this in the detail we are is Tiny, and the number of Americans with a Real, vested interest is even smaller.

The Embargo has been a part of America for 60+ years, and a lot more Americans know in general what's going on in Cuba than you give them credit for.  Do most citizens lose sleep over the plight of Cubans?  No.  The benefit for Senators or any politician to lift the embargo is virtue signaling, corruption, or a genuine reason for whatever that is.

 

[Nino]

48 minutes ago, therealrsr said:

Just my opinion, but the combination of the protest response and the support for Macro has handcuffed Biden.  He was reportedly a part of the move to open up under Obama.

Help me out please - who is Macro ?

[BrightonCorgi]

29 minutes ago, Nino said:

Help me out please - who is Macro ?

I think he means the Republican Florida Senator Marco Rubio.  If so, Rubio has little impact on Biden's decision making.  Biden attacks Florida, their residents and government all the time in speeches.

It really baffles me that Biden hasn't made a policy change on Cuba.  Such easy and low hanging fruit for him. 

[Nino]

Thanks @Bijan - makes sense now and I should have caught the typo !
At first I thought Macron but that didn't make much sense - now it does.

I am sure it baffles the Cuban gvmt as well, they were all but rolling the red carpet for that decision ... :-)

[Bijan]

Just now, Nino said:

Thanks @Bijan - makes sense now and I should have caught the typo !

I think you mean @BrightonCorgi 😉

[Nino]

3 minutes ago, Bijan said:

I think you mean @BrightonCorgi 😉

I think that "medical" post from @Elpresidente regarding blurry vision has affected me more than I thought ... :-)

Thanks @BrightonCorgi and @Bijan

 

[Corylax18]

19 hours ago, Nino said:

So you hate the game .... but like to keep the player happy. Good luck to mental distortion.

 

That's not what I said. I would obviously prefer that Cuba had a real import/export industry beyond stuffing the cargo holds of the few commercial airliners that are still flying back and forth between Cuba and Florida. But they dont. And these "sanctions" do as much to change that as doing nothing at all. That's my point. 

The State Department took(wasted) time and energy crafting this decision, when they could have been using that time to figure out a way to actually move the needle. That's my problem with it. I guess that doing absolutely nothing would have been slightly more disappointing, but only very very slightly.  

34 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

It really baffles me that Biden hasn't made a policy change on Cuba.  Such easy and low hanging fruit for him. 

Agreed. I don't understand it either. People keep saying "Bigger Fish to Fry", well they obviously spent time and energy(however minimal) on this decision. A decision that fly's in the face of what He was involved with a few years ago. 

13 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

The Embargo has been a part of America for 60+ years, and a lot more Americans know in general what's going on in Cuba than you give them credit for.  Do most citizens lose sleep over the plight of Cubans?  No.  The benefit for Senators or any politician to lift the embargo is virtue signaling, corruption, or a genuine reason for whatever that is.

 

Maybe at a high level, for older individuals. But most college graduates these days cant Identify 25/50 states on a map. Let alone understand the nuance of such a long and complicated issue. Nor do they care to.