interesting look at current US/Cuba relations from Newsweek

[Ken Gargett]

As World Set to Condemn U.S. at U.N., Cuba Calls Embargo 'An Act of War'

BY TOM O'CONNOR ON 6/23/21 AT 6:00 AM EDT

On the eve of a United Nations General Assembly vote in which the vast majority of the international community was likely to condemn the United States for its ongoing economic embargo against Cuba, the communist-led island's envoy to the U.N. has likened the trade chokehold to an act of war.

"To understand the essence of the blockade and the bilateral relations between Cuba and the U.S., we must understand the blockade as an act of war, a policy that causes calculated damage to an entire people," Cuban permanent representative to the U.N. Pedro Luis Pedroso Cuesta told Newsweek.

"It is an expression of hostility," he added, "that denies the Cuban people their right to self-determination, the right to build and develop the political, economic and social model that Cuba has decided to create in a sovereign manner."

The restrictions date back about six decades to when then-U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower first began to institute sanctions on Cuba as a revolutionary movement led by Fidel Castro rose to power. The measures were later intensified by the succeeding administration of President John F. Kennedy, who attempted to overthrow Castro by force by backing the 1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion and, the following year, sent U.S. warships to counter Soviet naval forces bringing nuclear-capable missiles to the island in a standoff that sparked the Cuban Missile Crisis, bringing the world to the brink of nuclear war.

 

The end of the Cold War 30 years later shifted international opinion on Cuba, however, as Havana was left without a superpower ally and a new consensus has held for nearly three more decades. Since 1992, the year after the fall of the Soviet Union, the U.N. General Assembly has voted annually to condemn the lasting U.S. policy toward Cuba, with the exception of last year due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

In the most recent vote held in November 2019, some 187 countries supported the "Necessity of ending the economic, commercial and financial embargo imposed by the United States of America against Cuba." The only three nations to vote against it were Brazil, Israel and the U.S. itself, while Colombia and Ukraine abstained.

 

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That vote came as then-President Donald Trump reversed historic steps taken by his predecessor, former President Barack Obama, to ease the embargo by freeing up certain travel and trade rules. In the final week of Trump's administration, his State Department returned Cuba to the U.S. list of State Sponsors of Terrorism, ushering in additional red flags in any dealings with the country and its ruling Communist Party.

On Wednesday, U.N. members will again weigh in on the embargo, and will do so for the first time since President Joe Biden took office in January. The new U.S. leader served as vice president when Obama pursued his detente with Havana and has set out on a broad policy review of Trump's foreign policy measures.

 

Biden, whose wife, now-First Lady Jill Biden, traveled to Cuba on an educational and cultural trip just weeks before the 2016 election, asserted on the 2020 campaign trail last September that Trump's approach has since "inflicted harm on the Cuban people and done nothing to advance democracy and human rights." Five months into office, however, he has yet to roll back any of his predecessor's decisions relating to Cuba.

"The President Trump administration adopted 243 coercive measures against Cuba in its intention to intensify the blockade and bend Cuba, 50 of those measures were taken during the year 2020, that is to say, in the midst of the global COVID pandemic, with the purposeful objective of causing greater suffering," Pedroso said. "All those measures remain in force today, and are a reflection of the unprecedented levels that the economic war against Cuba has reached, bringing about hardships of all kinds and material shortages in the daily lives of every Cuban."

He placed the cost of U.S. restrictions between April and December of last year at $3.5 billion, and the damage incurred between March 2020 and April 2019 at $9.1 billion.

"At current prices, the accumulated damages in almost six decades of application of this policy amount to more than $147.8 billion," Pedroso said.

 

Cubans drive past the U.S. embassy during a rally calling for the end of the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba, in Havana, March 28. Cubans have regularly marched and rallies in opposition to the Cold War-era restrictions against the communist-led island.YAMIL LAGE/AFP/GETTY IMAGES

Neither the White House nor State Department has yet to release any recent updates regarding the progress of the Cuba policy review and the Biden administration has remained relatively quiet on the matter as it tackles an array of pressing issues at home and abroad.

Reached for comment by Newsweek, the U.S. mission to the U.N. referred to the State Department.

"The Administration has committed to carefully reviewing U.S.-Cuba policy, including our posture regarding economic sanctions on Cuba, to ensure it advances the goals the Administration is trying to achieve, including improving the political and economic wellbeing of the Cuban people," a State Department spokesperson told Newsweek.

"As part of the ongoing review, the Department of State has actively engaged, and continues to engage, with a wide range of stakeholders representing diverse opinions," the spokesperson added. "The views shared by Cubans, Cuban-Americans, and other stakeholders provide valuable information to policymakers."

Among those in Cuba that the U.S. identified "with a voice and a desire to be heard" were artists, entrepreneurs, independent journalists and environmental activists as well as religious, minority and human rights advocates.

"We seek to empower the Cuban people to determine their own future," the State Department spokesperson said. "In addition to listening to civil society stakeholders, as we conduct our review of U.S.-Cuba policy, we continue to maintain human rights and support for democracy at the core of our efforts. We are concerned for the well-being and rights of artists and others who remain detained simply for exercising their basic human rights, and we will express our concern and denounce abuses when they occur."

The State Department was open to other forms of assistance as well.

"We are committed to considering all options available to support the Cuban people, particularly as they face the pandemic and a scarcity of food and medical care," the spokesperson said. "We are committed to considering all options available to support the Cuban people."

Such a message echoed that of U.S. Secretary Antony Blinken who addressed the Cuban people directly on the May 20 occasion of the 119th anniversary of Cuba's formal independence from the U.S. He said that the administration sought to "celebrate the strong bonds between our two peoples, as well as the diverse backgrounds and ideas of" various elements of Cuban society, including those mentioned by the State Department spokesperson to Newsweek.

"The United States stands with you and seeks to support you as you pursue freedom, prosperity, and a future of greater dignity," Blinken, who served as Obama's deputy Secretary of State during the rapprochement with Cuba, said in his statement last month.

Blinken also said that the Biden administration "recommits to accompanying the Cuban people in your quest to determine your own future," and "will support those improving the lives of families and workers, cuentapropistas who have forged their own economic paths, and all who are building a better Cuba – and a better tomorrow for themselves in Cuba."

The term cuentapropistas refers to non-state workers with whom the U.S. has sought to build bridges despite the geopolitical tensions between the two nations.

The U.S. has long accused the Cuban government and the Castro family which has dominated the country's politics since the 1959 revolution of perpetrating human rights abuses. These allegations were featured in the State Department's latest annual human rights report released in March and include oppression, censorship and arbitrary detention, torture and executions.

Pedroso defended his country's human rights record, for which he said Cuba "has sufficient grounds to feel proud." He acknowledged existing issues in this field but at the same time contended that the country was well-equipped to tackle them. He also said Washington too was guilty of abuses that Havana would like to see addressed.

"Our challenges in terms of human rights, like those of any other country, are known to our people and our government and we will continue to work on their solution on the basis of our Constitution," he said. "But Cuba is equally concerned about the human rights situation in the United States. Flagrant violations are committed here on a daily basis, which arouse concern within the international community."

Pedroso said his country was willing to discuss human rights with the Biden administration as "Cuba has never refused to engage in a civilized and respectful dialogue on these issues, which was demonstrated during the President Barack Obama administration."

In a milestone move following the Obama administration's outreach to Cuba, the U.S. abstained for the first time during the U.N. General Assembly's 2016 vote against the longstanding embargo. Abstention remains an option for Biden as well, though the ramifications for such a move would be felt not only in foreign policy, but domestically as well.

Many Republicans, including a strong bloc of Cuban Americans residing mainly in Florida, fiercely resist normalization with Cuba, even after Raúl Castro's handover of the Cuban Communist Party leadership to President Miguel Díaz-Canel in April marked the first time in the country's post-revolutionary history that a Castro has not held a formal position of power. Biden lost last year to Trump in Florida, a key battleground state with potential to decide elections.

Also complicating a path toward more robust U.S.-Cuba relations are the two countries' support for rival sides of Venezuela's political crisis, where Biden too has followed in Trump's footsteps by cutting off Cuba-allied socialist President Nicolás Maduro in favor of opposition-controlled National Assembly head Juan Guaidó, as well as the reports of mysterious "sonic attacks" said to have targeted U.S. staff at the Havana embassy in 2016 and are currently being investigated by the Biden administration.

At the same time, an increasingly vocal U.S. contingent, also including Cuban Americans, has emerged calling for restoring ties with the island nation. Organizations such as Bridges of Love and other solidarity groups have staged rallies, protests and caravans nationwide in hopes of pushing the Biden administration to soften its strategy.

Ultimately, Pedroso said he looked here, and at what he hoped tomorrow would be another overwhelming rebuke of the embargo, to determine what Biden's next steps would be on Cuba.

"The people of the United States, who wish to maintain a normal relationship with Cuba, including the majority of Cubans living in this country, and the peoples of the world will be the chief judges of what the Biden administration does or does not do with respect to Cuba," Pedroso said.

 

Members of the U.S. Hands off Cuba Committee rally with a car caravan past Los Angeles International Airport (LAX), in Los Angeles, California on June 20. The group showed support for the United Nations vote to end the U.S. blockade against Cuba, planned for June 23, 2021, and to call on President Joe Biden normalize diplomatic relations between the U.S. and Cuba.DAVID MCNEW/AFP/GETTY IMAGES

[NSXCIGAR]

The democrats will rarely do anything for fear of losing Florida, especially with the razor thin margins they have today. 

Biden won't even ratchet back to the Obama policy and kept them on the terror sponsor list for goodness sake. 

It seems there is no practical end in sight for this ridiculous policy. What more do they need to "consider?" Everyone in this administration had been there during Obama. Biden's been in the senate since the Nixon administration. 

They might actually be able to get 10 Republicans to get on board to do something right now but not a peep. 

[Nino]

2 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

"To understand the essence of the blockade and the bilateral relations between Cuba and the U.S., we must understand the blockade as an act of war, a policy that causes calculated damage to an entire people," Cuban permanent representative to the U.N. Pedro Luis Pedroso Cuesta told Newsweek.

"It is an expression of hostility," he added, "that denies the Cuban people their right to self-determination, the right to build and develop the political, economic and social model that Cuba has decided to create in a sovereign manner."

That article is completely one-sided and a piece of Agitprop in the best Soviet style.

It is the Cuban regime that imposes an internal blockade/embargo on its people and imposes calculated damage that is much more harmful than the US, that keeps denying the Cuban people the means to build and develop a free and democratic Cuba and forcing thousands to flee the island.

[Ken Gargett]

20 minutes ago, Nino said:

That article is completely one-sided and a piece of Agitprop in the best Soviet style.

It is the Cuban regime that imposes an internal blockade/embargo on its people and imposes calculated damage that is much more harmful than the US, that keeps denying the Cuban people the means to build and develop a free and democratic Cuba and forcing thousands to flee the island.

hi Nino, appreciate what you say and we have gone over this endlessly, many of us. not expecting to change views. just thought it an interesting piece. i think we all agree what we'd like to happen. just different ideas on how best to get there. 

i accept what you say but for me, the govt uses that embargo to be able to oppress the cuban people. if it is not there, suddenly things become much harder for the cuban govt. who do they blame? 

[El Presidente]

It is amusing that the west continually seeks to impose it's will on other political systems?  There is a built in level of hubris that is fascinating given the internal fractures that have been witnessed over the past few decades. 

On reflection, the west only seeks to impose its will on countries who pose no threat to it. Gutless or pragmatic? Sickening certainly. 

Cubans need to sort out the situation themselves. It may not be a pretty transition, but it isn't pretty right now. Someone/ Some movement is going to have to do some heavy lifting.  Hundreds of thousands marching the Malecon seeking change?  The world will take notice then.  That is not a guarantee of change to come but it is a marker put down. Anytime soon? little points to it right now. If they don't want anything to change, then keep on doing what they are currently doing. 

 

[Corylax18]

1 hour ago, Nino said:

That article is completely one-sided and a piece of Agitprop in the best Soviet style.

It is the Cuban regime that imposes an internal blockade/embargo on its people and imposes calculated damage that is much more harmful than the US, that keeps denying the Cuban people the means to build and develop a free and democratic Cuba and forcing thousands to flee the island.

A Very Poorly Researched Article, at best. Either Garbage Journalism or outright, intentional deception. It doesn't matter which, spreading this kind of crap doesn't help the situation for either side. The U.S. is preventing the Cuban people from "self determining" that they love the single, corrupt Political party in the country? The one that determines everything for the Cuban people, without their input? That's Rich. 

3 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

Many Republicans, including a strong bloc of Cuban Americans residing mainly in Florida, fiercely resist normalization with Cuba, even after Raúl Castro's handover of the Cuban Communist Party leadership to President Miguel Díaz-Canel in April marked the first time in the country's post-revolutionary history that a Castro has not held a formal position of power.

When did controlling a countries Military lose its place as a position of power? I think our "Commander and Chief" would beg to differ. Raul still holds ALL the power on the island. 

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Biden won't even ratchet back to the Obama policy and kept them on the terror sponsor list for goodness sake. 

It seems there is no practical end in sight for this ridiculous policy. What more do they need to "consider?" Everyone in this administration had been there during Obama. Biden's been in the senate since the Nixon administration. 

They might actually be able to get 10 Republicans to get on board to do something right now but not a peep.

I honestly don't want the Admin wasting one second of their time on Cuba right now. Everybody in our government should have 10-15 things on their "To-Do" list before they get to this. The issue is inconsequential compared to the many real issues we need to solve within our own country right now. They also pale in comparison to issues we have with other countries right now. (when was the last time a state funded Cuban hacker shut down 1/3rd of the countries oil supply?) 
 

[Ken Gargett]

51 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

I honestly don't want the Admin wasting one second of their time on Cuba right now. Everybody in our government should have 10-15 things on their "To-Do" list before they get to this. The issue is inconsequential compared to the many real issues we need to solve within our own country right now. They also pale in comparison to issues we have with other countries right now. (when was the last time a state funded Cuban hacker shut down 1/3rd of the countries oil supply?) 
 

i'd argue it is a sad day when there is no time or inclination to do the right thing. sure, plenty of other problems and i'd agree that this is not the most pressing. but it is a problem that was instigated by the implementation of the embargo in the first place. so perhaps those that did this should find the time to correct it. 

[Nino]

1 hour ago, Ken Gargett said:

i accept what you say but for me, the govt uses that embargo to be able to oppress the cuban people. if it is not there, suddenly things become much harder for the cuban govt. who do they blame? 

Fully agree with you Ken. Specially last sentence. Take off the fig leaf and the system is naked...

[Corylax18]

Just now, Ken Gargett said:

so perhaps those that did this should find the time to correct it. 

They're all in the ground. It will be their grand kids or Great grand kids that solve this problem. 

It is a sad day, just like yesterday was and tomorrow will be. It's the world we live in now. 

We can't even agree that we need to fix our own dilapidated infrastructure in this country. How are we going to agree on a solid, useful approach to this situation? 

I know the US started the problem, I wont argue that for a minute. But it takes two to tango. Cuba's dance shoes are worn through, they don't have socks anymore, and they haven't danced with anyone on the world stage for years. The US has fancy, shiny loafers on that haven't been broken in yet(slippery on the bottom), both the left and right feet think they should lead and we both have on headphones that are playing a different song. Any "Dance" is quickly going to turn into two writhing bodies on the ground resembling an adult film.

Its a waste of time, for everybody involved. If we had everything dialed in here, than I would be all for it. But we don't. There isn't even a single basic point of agreement to start with. The two governments disagree on every possible point. Why waste more time?

[Ken Gargett]

47 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

They're all in the ground. It will be their grand kids or Great grand kids that solve this problem. 

It is a sad day, just like yesterday was and tomorrow will be. It's the world we live in now. 

We can't even agree that we need to fix our own dilapidated infrastructure in this country. How are we going to agree on a solid, useful approach to this situation? 

I know the US started the problem, I wont argue that for a minute. But it takes two to tango. Cuba's dance shoes are worn through, they don't have socks anymore, and they haven't danced with anyone on the world stage for years. The US has fancy, shiny loafers on that haven't been broken in yet(slippery on the bottom), both the left and right feet think they should lead and we both have on headphones that are playing a different song. Any "Dance" is quickly going to turn into two writhing bodies on the ground resembling an adult film.

Its a waste of time, for everybody involved. If we had everything dialed in here, than I would be all for it. But we don't. There isn't even a single basic point of agreement to start with. The two governments disagree on every possible point. Why waste more time?

the difference between us is not that much. like to see the same thing, by and large. fully agree that the cuban govt has much to answer for and more to do to gain credibility. if the US simply lifts the embargo, then over to the cuban govt. at that stage, despite what might be attributable to the US govt, there is little point in stewing over the past. basically, cut bait. then the states can step away and it is up to the cubans. i doubt many of us think they'll succeed and hopefully this leads to change. and in removing their biggest crutch, the embargo, i really believe that the US would be doing more in the long term for the cuban people than by any other action. 

[Corylax18]

57 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

the difference between us is not that much. like to see the same thing, by and large. 

Agreed.

"Just Drop It" would be fine with me. It would also be fine with me if someone dropped $10 million into my bank account tomorrow. Both are about as likely to happen. 

Hubris is certainly the main factor at this point. Neither side wants to "lose" or admit they where wrong. 

I don't share your optimism that dropping the embargo would solve the problem in Cuba. Making it easier for the criminals to do business wont be a catalyst for them to change. 

[Ginseng]

9 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

Many Republicans, including a strong bloc of Cuban Americans residing mainly in Florida, fiercely resist normalization with Cuba

Would someone more knowledgeable explain to me how this view is or has been constructive in any way for any group? I mean aside from the angle on US domestic politics.

[Bijan]

32 minutes ago, Ginseng said:

Would someone more knowledgeable explain to me how this view is or has been constructive in any way for any group? I mean aside from the angle on US domestic politics.

Not an expert, but there's a weird human urge to as the expression goes "cut off one's nose to spite one's face". In this case it's cutting off someone else's nose as the US can easily take the loss of all relations with Cuba without batting an eyelid.

[Corylax18]

1 hour ago, Ginseng said:

Would someone more knowledgeable explain to me how this view is or has been constructive in any way for any group? I mean aside from the angle on US domestic politics.

 

37 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Not an expert, but there's a weird human urge to as the expression goes "cut off one's nose to spite one's face". In this case it's cutting off someone else's nose as the US can easily take the loss of all relations with Cuba without batting an eyelid.

Its much more than that. A large portion of the 2 million + Cuban Americans are direct descendants of people that where robbed by the Castro's. People that should still be in Cuba running restaurants, hotels and tobacco farms that they inherited from their parents or grand parents. 

Instead, the Castro's have been profiting from all of it and exploiting their remaining relatives in the process. They have a very legitimate issue with the Cuban government. weather that should dictate the policies of country with over 300 million people is another discussion. 

This theft is the basis for the Helms-Burton act and the financial embargo. Its the reason the rest of the world refuses to honor Cuba's copy right claims on Rum and Cigar brands. They've been trafficking in stolen goods for 60 years.  

[Bijan]

7 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

 

Its much more than that. A large portion of the 2 million + Cuban Americans are direct descendants of people that where robbed by the Castro's. People that should still be in Cuba running restaurants, hotels and tobacco farms that they inherited from their parents or grand parents. 

Instead, the Castro's have been profiting from all of it and exploiting their remaining relatives in the process. They have a very legitimate issue with the Cuban government. weather that should dictate the policies of country with over 300 million people is another discussion. 

This theft is the basis for the Helms-Burton act and the financial embargo. Its the reason the rest of the world refuses to honor Cuba's copy right claims on Rum and Cigar brands. They've been trafficking in stolen goods for 60 years.  

Legitimate though the grievances certainly are or may be the policy has not reversed the losses in the slightest nor does it have much chance of doing so. To me they are only hurting their relatives for the sake of sticking it to the Castro's who are still profiting regardless and who are using it as a propaganda tool to boot.

[Nino]

6 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

The U.S. is preventing the Cuban people from "self determining" that they love the single, corrupt Political party in the country? The one that determines everything for the Cuban people, without their input? That's Rich. 

 

Very rich indeeed -  here are some arguments detailing the opposite  view - why there is no embargo/blockade on Cuba and why it  would be important to press the Cuban regime  to drop its internal embargo on the population :

Seven key points to demand the end of the Castro blockade of Cubans

A new 'déjà vu' at the UN hides the true blockade of Cuba.

Roberto Alvarez Quinones Los Angeles 24 Jun 2021 

https://diariodecuba.com/cuba/1624532849_32140.html

It is not a blockade or a total embargo

Not only is there no blockade on Cuba, but it is not even a total embargo, for five reasons:

1) Cuba can trade with the remaining 194 countries in the world.

2) The Helms-Burton law allows US exports to Cuba of food and medicine.

3) The US is today the largest source of foreign exchange that Cuba has. In 2019, the year before the pandemic, some 6.5 billion dollars in remittances, packages and trips by American and Cuban-American tourists flowed to the island from the United States.

4) The embargo only affects the Castro state. It does not include the Cuban private sector. If the regime allowed private farmers and businesses to trade freely with the United States, there would be no food crisis or extreme poverty in Cuba.

5) If Cuba does not have access to credits or facilities to operate with dollars in Western banks, it is because it does not pay its debts and nobody wants to lend it, and because it is among the countries that sponsor terrorism. In addition to being Cuba's largest supplier of foreign currency, the United States is its main supplier of frozen chicken, the main protein in the current Cuban diet. It sells to Cuba 16 times more chickens than Brazil. From 2000 to 2019, the US shipped 2.3 million tons of chicken to Cuba, worth almost $ 2 billion.

In April 2021, Cuba bought 30,024 tons of chicken from US farmers, in contrast to the 1,892 tons imported from Brazil. The US, the "blocker" country, is more advantageous. It sells a kilogram of chicken to Cuba for the dollar for $ 1.48 in Brazil, the price of which is also increased by the distance and transportation costs.

How much do the military charge for a kilogram of "American chicken" in the dollarized stores they have in Cuba? They sell it at $ 7.58 per kilogram, as reported by the daily 14yMedio from a market in Rancho Boyeros, Havana.

According to the National Statistics and Information Office (ONEI) of the regime, in 2019, out of 71 countries that exported merchandise to Cuba, the US ranked ninth, with food sales worth $ 308 million.

Given the above, it is urgently necessary to denounce the true blockade, which is the internal blockade against Cubans.

The demand on Raúl Castro and his military mafia must contemplate seven general points a priori.

Key points to demand the end of the internal Castro blockade

1- Give Cubans freedom to invest capital without limitations in the urban and agricultural economy to grow their businesses, as well as to export and import without the intervention of the State, and freely dispose of the foreign exchange obtained.

2- Abolish the state storage system and state agricultural companies. That private farmers can sell 100% of their crops to the market or to private retailers, at prices negotiated between the parties.

3- Render without effect the system of state lands given in usufruct, so that the usufructuaries become owners before the law of those farms.

4- Finalize the state centralization of the economy and the state monopoly of retail trade. Authorize the creation of small and medium-sized private companies (SMEs) in industry, agriculture, livestock, mining, fishing, commerce and services, including those of university professionals and experts, both individually and as private firms.

5- Abolish the state monopoly on foreign trade and allow private companies to export and import goods and dispose of dividends.

6- Develop a tax reform that encourages investment and economic revival of key areas with low taxes or payment moratorium of several years, with the State prioritizing above all the production of food and drugs, the construction of houses and other activities of immediate impact in the welfare of the population.

7- Launch a new policy that ends with the exile of millions of Cubans and attracts them to participate in national development, both with financial capital and with their know-how, talent and relationships in the global business world.

It is time for the international community to realize that if Cubans suffer hunger and misery today, it is not because of the "evil" of a foreign government, but because of the military mafia that usurps power on the island, which maintains an internal blockade that strangles the population.

[Bijan]

@Nino

From Wikipedia (I am no expert in this field):

"International Sanctions against the Cuban Government. Economic embargo, any non-U.S. company that deals economically with Cuba can be subjected to legal action and that company's leadership can be barred from entry into the United States. Sanctions may be applied to non-U.S. companies trading with Cuba. This means that internationally operating companies have to choose between Cuba and the U.S., which is a much larger market."

So it is a case by case for companies and major ones may have to abstain.

Secondly US is ninth in exports to Cuba when they should be likely first and they are where in imports from Cuba? Which is the important side of the equation.

 

The US is not China and Cuba is no Australia so you can definitely defend the sanctions or embargo on fair grounds but to say that it has no effect is crazy to me.

[Corylax18]

25 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Legitimate though the grievances certainly are or may be the policy has not reversed the losses in the slightest nor does it have much chance of doing so. To me they are only hurting their relatives for the sake of sticking it to the Castro's who are still profiting regardless and who are using it as a propaganda tool to boot.

I wasn't tying to justify or denounce it, just explain it a bit better. Maybe they'll get over it when Raul Dies. He's the last one left who was directly responsible. Its doubtful, but one can hope. 

 

30 minutes ago, Bijan said:

This means that internationally operating companies have to choose between Cuba and the U.S., which is a much larger market."

They're Free to Choose. One choice might clearly be stupid, but its still a choice. 

[Cigar Surgeon]

51 minutes ago, Nino said:

5) If Cuba does not have access to credits or facilities to operate with dollars in Western banks, it is because it does not pay its debts and nobody wants to lend it, and because it is among the countries that sponsor terrorism. In addition to being Cuba's largest supplier of foreign currency, the United States is its main supplier of frozen chicken, the main protein in the current Cuban diet. It sells to Cuba 16 times more chickens than Brazil. From 2000 to 2019, the US shipped 2.3 million tons of chicken to Cuba, worth almost $ 2 billion.

As long as the US continues to do business with countries like Saudi Arabia that routinely sponsor terrorism it's hard to take their claims on this seriously.

[Bijan]

16 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

They're Free to Choose. One choice might clearly be stupid, but its still a choice. 

Definitely I was responding to the claim Cuba is totally free to trade with other non us companies, entities, countries etc. And I'm saying the major companies will be influenced by this.

[Nino]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

@Nino

From Wikipedia (I am no expert in this field):

"International Sanctions against the Cuban Government. Economic embargo, any non-U.S. company that deals economically with Cuba can be subjected to legal action and that company's leadership can be barred from entry into the United States. Sanctions may be applied to non-U.S. companies trading with Cuba. This means that internationally operating companies have to choose between Cuba and the U.S., which is a much larger market."

So it is a case by case for companies and major ones may have to abstain.

Secondly US is ninth in exports to Cuba when they should be likely first and they are where in imports from Cuba? Which is the important side of the equation.

Well, I guess it is the privilege of any country to deal with and engage in business with other countries.

Even Germany has to endure the threat of US sanctions for engaging with Russia on the Nordstream Gas pipeline project right now ...

1 hour ago, Corylax18 said:

I wasn't tying to justify or denounce it, just explain it a bit better. Maybe they'll get over it when Raul Dies. He's the last one left who was directly responsible. Its doubtful, but one can hope.

They're Free to Choose. One choice might clearly be stupid, but its still a choice. 

Fully agreed - the key word is choice. Choose Cuba, lose the US. No problem.

1 hour ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

As long as the US continues to do business with countries like Saudi Arabia that routinely sponsor terrorism it's hard to take their claims on this seriously.

Agreed. Or take Pakistan. Same same there...and many others as well.

1 hour ago, Bijan said:

Definitely I was responding to the claim Cuba is totally free to trade with other non us companies, entities, countries etc. And I'm saying the major companies will be influenced by this.

There will be always influences in trading and major companies will choose their best interests.

[Bijan]

@Nino I don't disagree with the policy or at least that is not my argument. I disagree only here that it is without much effect on Cuba.

As to the policy I would be wary of setting the precedent that whoever is strongest can push everybody else around for fear of what China will do in the future, but that is US politics and best avoided.

[El Presidente]

The below is completely laughable. Pure propoganda from the Miami right and holding as much intellectual value as the Castro left. 

We have gone over this before. For the sake of reality

 

 

1) Cuba can trade with the remaining 194 countries in the world.

Lie. Cuba can not freely trade with the remaining 194 countries in the world. 

2) The Helms-Burton law allows US exports to Cuba of food and medicine.

On US terms. Terms based upon intentionally destroying Cuba'a ability to trade  freely internationally.

3) The US is today the largest source of foreign exchange that Cuba has. In 2019, the year before the pandemic, some 6.5 billion dollars in remittances, packages and trips by American and Cuban-American tourists flowed to the island from the United States.

This is laughable. The US has engineered the destruction of remittances to Cuba. 

4) The embargo only affects the Castro state. It does not include the Cuban private sector. If the regime allowed private farmers and businesses to trade freely with the United States, there would be no food crisis or extreme poverty in Cuba.

So my mate Carlos at paladar Rum Rum can receive a Western Union Payment from me?  No it is banned. Maybe I can use Revolut....no....banned. Any remittance agencies? No. 

But he is a private individual?  Yes .....point 4 is bullshit. 

5) If Cuba does not have access to credits or facilities to operate with dollars in Western banks, it is because it does not pay its debts and nobody wants to lend it, and because it is among the countries that sponsor terrorism. In addition to being Cuba's largest supplier of foreign currency, the United States is its main supplier of frozen chicken, the main protein in the current Cuban diet. It sells to Cuba 16 times more chickens than Brazil. From 2000 to 2019, the US shipped 2.3 million tons of chicken to Cuba, worth almost $ 2 billion.

Bla bla bla. More propoganda. 

Remove the gun to the head of international financial institutions and then see who trades with Cuba and on what terms.  

Chicken? Yet again a classic case of burning down everyone else's farm so yours is the only one left in town. 

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Agreed.

"Just Drop It" would be fine with me. It would also be fine with me if someone dropped $10 million into my bank account tomorrow. Both are about as likely to happen. 

Hubris is certainly the main factor at this point. Neither side wants to "lose" or admit they where wrong. 

I don't share your optimism that dropping the embargo would solve the problem in Cuba. Making it easier for the criminals to do business wont be a catalyst for them to change. 

absolutely right on the likelihood of it happening. 

it will be a topic here for longer than most of us will be around i fear. 

[Ken Gargett]

4 hours ago, Ginseng said:

Would someone more knowledgeable explain to me how this view is or has been constructive in any way for any group? I mean aside from the angle on US domestic politics.

can i clarify one thing - i keep being quoted as saying the 'republicans'... 

what i did was post the article, agree or not, it is relevant to something affecting us all. i did not put forward any personal view on either side of politics.