More Chicken ...

[Nino]

Not wanting to re-open the "No Cash, No Chicken" thread or a new "for/against embargo" discussion, here's just the facts and numbers on US-Cuba trade so far this year.

Once again it is "no money, no honey" by the US side due to the fact that Cuba's credit rating does not allow it to buy except for cash.

-----------

US exports to Cuba grew 41.7% in January

Havana bought chicken, soybeans, wood pulp and rice for 19 million dollars

14ymedio, Havana | March 10, 2021

https://www.14ymedio.com/economia/exportaciones-EE-UU-Cuba-crecieron_0_3054894492.html

 

US exports of food and agricultural products to Cuba in January 2021 increased 41.7% compared to the same period last year, according to the US-Cuba Economic and Trade Council.

In its report, the independent economic analysis group based in New York detailed that in the first month of this year, imports from the island represented just over 19 million dollars compared to 13 and a half million in 2020. The main products that the Cuban government acquired from the United States were chicken meat, soybeans, wood pulp and rice.

In the entire year 2020, the Island bought 163 million dollars in food from US companies, a figure well below the almost 258 million dollars in 2019, the Council recently indicated, which also pointed out last year as the one with the least commercial exchange since 2002.

The United States is the largest supplier of chicken to the island, a fact that the Cuban government never publishes, which usually uses the blockade to justify the economic crisis and the shortage of supplies in the country. The new figures presented by the agency foresee a rebound in trade between the two countries with the arrival of a new tenant in the White House, despite the fact that the relationship with Cuba is not among Joe Biden's priorities.

During the last Administration, relations between the two nations deteriorated and the more than 240 measures that Trump imposed on the island contributed, in the words of the Cuban Ministry of Foreign Affairs, to "economically asphyxiating the country, subverting the internal order, creating a situation of ungovernability ".

In early March, a group of 80 Democratic congressmen sent a letter to Biden in which they requested that he reverse the "cruel" restriction policies imposed on Cuba by the administration of former President Trump, while, from Florida, another group of congressmen, Democrats and Republicans, as well as mayors, signed a petition for Washington not to soften its policy towards the Island if there is no progress towards freedom and democracy.

During the presidential campaign, Biden assured that he would lift some of the travel and trade restrictions between the two countries and that he would resume diplomatic talks, but on Tuesday the White House said he had other priorities.

---------

A Good Start- U.S. Food/Ag Exports To Cuba In January 2021 Increased 41.7% Compared To January 2020

March 06, 2021

ECONOMIC EYE ON CUBA©
March 2021

JANUARY 2021 FOOD/AG EXPORTS TO CUBA INCREASE 41.7%- Exports of food products and agricultural commodities from the United States to the Republic of Cuba in January 2021 were US$19,018,549.00 compared to US$13,421,660.00 in January 2020 and US$23,884,686.00 in January 2019.

Chicken Leg Quarters (Frozen)- US$8,566,575.00
Chicken Meat (Frozen)- US$4,201,456.00
Chicken Legs (Frozen)- US$4,181,269.00
Soybeans- US$1,950,117.00
Woodpulp- US$106,632.00
Rice- US$12,500.00

Since December 2001, agricultural commodity and food product exports reported from the United States to the Republic of Cuba is US$6,315,245,973.00.

This report contains information on exports from the United States to the Republic of Cuba- products within the Trade Sanctions Reform and Export Enhancement Act (TSREEA) of 2000, Cuban Democracy Act (CDA) of 1992, and regulations implemented (1992 to present) for other products by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the United States Department of the Treasury and Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) of the United States Department of Commerce.

The TSREEA re-authorized the direct commercial (on a cash basis) export of food products (including branded food products) and agricultural commodities from the United States to the Republic of Cuba, irrespective of purpose. The TSREEA does not include healthcare products, which remain authorized and regulated by the CDA.

Complete Report Available Soon (Awaiting Shipping Data)

https://www.cubatrade.org/blog/2021/3/6/4xb7b10uziq0inxkemqw2pjszdjkvi

 

[El Presidente]

Could a cash deal for chicken be executed with say Canada?

Without the OFAC regulatory approval for the transaction (as in the US case), two questions:

 

• How does cuba send an international "cash" transfer to Canada given their "sponsor of terrorism" designation. Any bank handling the transaction would face US blacklisting and OFAC fines. 
• Which shipper wants to take on the risks  (sponsor of terrorism designation again) and risk having their operations int the US blacklisted. 

It's a closed shop and the reason the US is largely the only option outside of China (who doesn't care about US /OFAC laws). 

[Nino]

No idea about Canada @Elpresidente but I remember that after the former US admin took power and started needling it, Cuba went to make deal with Spain about ... chicken.

And I am certain that neither Spain ( nor Canada, China or Timbuktu ) would deal with Cuba out of a charity & welfare concern, so yes, I am sure it is possible.

https://eldinero.com.do/73114/cuba-negocia-pacto-con-firma-espanola-para-producir-30-del-pollo-que-consume/

Cuba negotiates a pact with a Spanish firm to produce 30% of the chicken it consumes

La Habana  25 noviembre, 2018

The Cuban government is negotiating with a Spanish company Kodysa the creation of a joint venture that would supply three out of every ten chickens consumed on the island, sources from the Presidency reported in Havana during the official visit of the head of Government, Pedro Sánchez.

Representatives of the island and of the Iberian firm, which has the development of poultry complexes among its specialties, signed a memorandum of understanding this Friday to launch the project, at a cost of 50 million euros.

The initiative involves creating a Spanish-Cuban company that provides some 400,000 fresh chickens each week. The chickens, which would be produced on the island, would cover 30 percent of the local demand and would help stabilize the supply of this type of meat in Cuba, a country with chronic shortage problems and which also imports most of its food. it consumes.

The signing of the preliminary agreement was chaired by the Spanish Minister of Industry, Commerce and Tourism, Reyes Maroto, who traveled to Havana in the Pedro Sánchez delegation and this morning participated in a business forum with some 300 businessmen with presence or interest in Cuba.

The poultry project would also include the supply of feed and would have "public participation from the State" through the Spanish Development Financing Company (COFIDES), although this would be a "minority", the source from Moncloa told Efe.

It did not specify other details, such as the deadlines in which the project would be launched if both parties ratify it through a definitive agreement.

The memorandum of understanding has been one of the fruits of the visit of Sánchez's delegation to Cuba, whose priorities include opening new business opportunities for Spanish entrepreneurs on the island, where there are already 250 companies established in the European country.

Spain is consolidating itself as Cuba's second largest trading partner - ahead of Venezuela and behind China - and its exports to Cuba increased by 5.7% year-on-year in the period between September 2017 and August 2018, reaching 921.12 million euros (about 1,045 million dollars), according to official data.

 

[El Presidente]

Spain is an interesting one. 

Their long relationship with Cuba made them a favourite domicile for Cuban Government agencies to bank even with the embargo. Everyone kept a low profile.

That all came to a screaming halt in November 2020 when the Spanish bank froze all Cuba quango accounts. This was a result of an internal compliance review where it was decided that having been added again to the "Sate Sponsor of Terrorism List" the Cuban quango's were too hot to handle any longer. 

Next stop China to open accounts. 

[El Presidente]

quango =  an organisation to which a government has devolved power, but which is still partly controlled and/or financed by government bodies

[mprach024]

Chickens don’t grow on Cuba?

I mean cmon....Poor country, lots of undeveloped land, what’s the issue?  The recipe to make chickens is pretty simple........Rooster, Hen, 👉👈.  Can make a chicken coop out of wire, wood, palm fronds.....you’d think this would be the one part of the economy they could handle.  Why are they shopping for chicken?  

 

[Kevin48438]

According to the article, the chickens are to be produced on the island.   The Spanish company looks to be fronting the costs and using their expertise to build the facilities.

The article is well over a year old.  Any update on the build?   Any chickens yet?

[Nino]

5 hours ago, mprach024 said:

Chickens don’t grow on Cuba?

I mean cmon....Poor country, lots of undeveloped land, what’s the issue?  The recipe to make chickens is pretty simple........Rooster, Hen, 👉👈.  Can make a chicken coop out of wire, wood, palm fronds.....you’d think this would be the one part of the economy they could handle.  Why are they shopping for chicken?  

 

Checking on imports of chicken to Cuba I found this article from a Cuban independent paper that might give you  some answers :

https://translatingcuba.com/the-chicken-will-also-be-cubanol/

The Cuban poultry industry is going through a bad time, hit last September by Hurricane Irma and last May by the subtropical storm Michael, which damaged numerous chicken farms along the northern coast and in the western part of the country, although most of them were dedicated to egg production.

“We have very little production of chicken for meat consumption because of the issue of feed for growth and fattening, which is not easily achieved,” explains Luis Abreu by phone to 4ymedio. Abreu, 53, works on a poultry farm near the community of Las Terrazas in Artemisa. “Here we are dedicated to laying hens but right now we are below half of our capacity.”

Problems with the roofs of farm buildings, the supply of water to keep the hen-houses clean and the delicate issue of feed, makes it difficult for the animals to enjoy “the minimum conditions to lay all the eggs they could, much less to raise a chicken to a certain weight in a short period of time,” Abreu laments.

The depressed local industry forces Cuba to import more than 80% of the food consumed on the island, including more than 120,000 tons of chicken meat. In 2017, Alberto Ramírez, president of the Cuban Society of Poultry Producers (SOCPA), confirmed to the official press that “the [national] production of meat is practically nil.”

 

5 hours ago, Kevin48438 said:

According to the article, the chickens are to be produced on the island.   The Spanish company looks to be fronting the costs and using their expertise to build the facilities.

The article is well over a year old.  Any update on the build?   Any chickens yet?

Nope - no update at all ... have checked the web for more infos or details on the company and ... nothing.

I guess that, like other JV's with, this one also failed after the music faded and the company found out Cuba is a risk ...

This all I found, also from Nov. 2018

Madrid-based law firm Lupicinio International has advised Spanish engineering, construction and agricultural development company Grupo Kodysa in its negotiations with the Cuban government for the development of an agro-industrial program to supply chickens to the island nation.

 

Under the agreement, the €50 million ($56.5 million) program would supply Cuba with almost one-third of the chickens consumed on the island. The deal was brokered during Spanish President Pedro Sánchez’s visit to the island, and was signed by the president of Cuban livestock company Gegan, Noberto Espinosa Carro, and Kodysa’s president Diego Amaya Guerrero.
 
The project will be managed by a Spanish-Cuban joint venture that will supply the island with 300,000 chickens per week. 



Seville-based Kodysa's agro-industrial arm has developed poultry-raising and olive farms in Spain, and produces processed food.

The deal is a win-win for Kodysa and Cuba, according to José María Viñals, partner and director of Lupicinio’s international operations practice.

“This is a big project for the island, as it means that part of the large demand will be met, as Cuba currently imports chicken from Brazil and Florida, which means the island does not have access to fresh chicken,” he said.
 

Lupicinio’s Cuba office also recently counseled a food company on the renewal of its agreement with the Cuban government. 

The law firm is active in Cuba’s banking, tourism, energy and services sectors. 

 

 

[Kevin48438]

That’s too bad.   Thought communism was going to work out this time.  Was curious to see how a “memorandum of understanding” would to turn into food.

Come to find out, they can’t even adequately feed the chickens they have now.

[Nino]

54 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

That’s too bad.   Thought communism was going to work out this time.  Was curious to see how a “memorandum of understanding” would to turn into food.

Come to find out, they can’t even adequately feed the chickens they have now.

Well, it is well known that in Cuba you select a job depending on how much you can steal/profit from it ....

This might be an explanation ( from that article ) :

The Spaniards are committed to guaranteeing the supply of animal feed, the weakest point of Cuban industry, and one that must be watched with greater zeal. “One of the main problems of meat production in Cuba is the diversion [i.e. theft] of resources from state companies to the informal market,” said Maritza Rojas, a Villa Clara native who worked for two decades as an accountant on a poultry farm, speaking to this newspaper.

“Private producers are sold barely any feed, so this product sells very well on the black market,” she explains. “Any place where chickens are raised, we have to watch the feed more than the birds, because it disappears little by little.” The accountant thinks that “it is still too expensive to produce chickens in Cuba” because of “the lack of infrastructure and so much theft.”

 

54 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

That’s too bad.   Thought communism was going to work out this time.  Was curious to see how a “memorandum of understanding” would to turn into food.

Come to find out, they can’t even adequately feed the chickens they have now.

No, it doesn't work and it hasn't so far - only getting worse.

Here is another good article at the why it doesn't work ...

https://havanatimes.org/features/can-cuba-produce-its-own-chicken/

HAVANA TIMES – Twenty years ago, Cuba decided to suspend national production of chicken for consumption, because it was apparently a lot cheaper and easier to import than produce it locally. This happened despite economists voicing their disagreement with the decision.

According to a press statement from Alberto Rodriguez, the director of the Production Department in the Livestock Business Group’s Poultry Branch, every province has experience because in the 1980s, some 120,000 tons of chicken were being produced every year.

Later, the country became completely dependent on chicken imports from the US [food products being exempt from the embargo], and then also on imports from Brazil, Argentina and other markets. [A policy that proves how precarious food security is, and the same thing happens with rice and other basic items.]

Then the pandemic came…

Amidst the current pandemic, lines to buy chicken and other basic items expose people to Covid-19, but producer Sandra Leyva is rearing poultry in the capital’s outskirts.

At her farm, El Futuro, in the Boyeros municipality, Leyva is taking part in a trial to fatten chickens in rustic conditions, so as to then disseminate learning from this experience and once again produce 120,000 tons of this meat locally again, like the country did over 20 years ago.

Working with her family, and with a professional background as a teacher, this Guantanamo native became a cooperative member 15 years ago and revolutionized the 19-hectare farm, where she also plants different crops and has large livestock animals, rabbits and pigs.

Cuba hasn’t been producing poultry meat on a large-scale since the 1980s, and it only produces 9500 tons of chicken meat, from discarded egg-laying hens.

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, nino said:

“Private producers are sold barely any feed, so this product sells very well on the black market,” she explains. “Any place where chickens are raised, we have to watch the feed more than the birds, because it disappears little by little.” The accountant thinks that “it is still too expensive to produce chickens in Cuba” because of “the lack of infrastructure and so much theft.”

 

It is such a sad truth for the majority. The only reason you have a job is to steal. 

[El Presidente]

On 3/13/2021 at 9:36 PM, nino said:

Not wanting to re-open the "No Cash, No Chicken" thread or a new "for/against embargo" discussion, here's just the facts and numbers on US-Cuba trade so far this year.

Once again it is "no money, no honey" by the US side due to the fact that Cuba's credit rating does not allow it to buy except for cash.

-----------

US exports to Cuba grew 41.7% in January

Havana bought chicken, soybeans, wood pulp and rice for 19 million dollars

 

What a perfect scam.  You misuse your market position to  fine any other western country/business that sells them Chicken......and then sell them chicken for cash. 

You couldn't write this script 

[Bijan]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

 

What a perfect scam.  You misuse your market position to  fine any other western country/business that sells them Chicken......and then sell them chicken for cash. 

You couldn't write this script 

As in all these things, I worry about the day China writes the sequel...

[Fuzz]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

As in all these things, I worry about the day China writes the sequel...

China builds the chicken farms, moves entire villages from China to Cuba to run the farms, sells some of the chicken to Cuba, then opens up a chain of Mao's Fried Chicken restaurants ("Try MFC's 'Chairman's Selection' pack, so good you'll be asking for Mao....") across Cuba,

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, Fuzz said:

China builds the chicken farms, moves entire villages from China to Cuba to run the farms, sells some of the chicken to Cuba, then opens up a chain of Mao's Fried Chicken restaurants ("Try MFC's 'Chairman's Selection' pack, so good you'll be asking for Mao....") across Cuba,

I'm hiring you for my PR team 

[mprach024]

2 hours ago, Fuzz said:

China builds the chicken farms, moves entire villages from China to Cuba to run the farms, sells some of the chicken to Cuba, then opens up a chain of Mao's Fried Chicken restaurants ("Try MFC's 'Chairman's Selection' pack, so good you'll be asking for Mao....") across Cuba,

This is almost too smart...

[Nino]

On YT now - the arrival yesterday of 4000 tons of US chicken from Sanderson farms, plus vegetable oil etc, in HAV from New Orleans - and a port worker speaking of the evil US embargo on Cuban tv while unloading the US chicken.

Sanderson farms report Cuba as being one of their largest clients last 3 years from 2018 ...

 

 

On 3/16/2021 at 1:24 PM, Fuzz said:

China builds the chicken farms, moves entire villages from China to Cuba to run the farms, sells some of the chicken to Cuba, then opens up a chain of Mao's Fried Chicken restaurants ("Try MFC's 'Chairman's Selection' pack, so good you'll be asking for Mao....") across Cuba,

That is today's reality - while we in the west are focusing on more important "cultural" issues China is eating us for lunch and hungry an hour later ....

 

[Bijan]

6 hours ago, nino said:

On YT now - the arrival yesterday of 4000 tons of US chicken from Sanderson farms, plus vegetable oil etc, in HAV from New Orleans - and a port worker speaking of the evil US embargo on Cuban tv while unloading the US chicken.

Sanderson farms report Cuba as being one of their largest clients last 3 years from 2018 ...

I am confused... To me the problem of the embargo would be Cuba not being able to sell goods to the US. Not the ability to spend the little cash they have on chickens they could probably get cheaper elsewhere if it were not for us sanctions.

[Nino]

5 hours ago, Bijan said:

I am confused... To me the problem of the embargo would be Cuba not being able to sell goods to the US. Not the ability to spend the little cash they have on chickens they could probably get cheaper elsewhere if it were not for us sanctions.

Tell me which goods Cuba would sell to the US or the world - once the "sugar island" it has now to import even sugar from France ... their primary currency earner is selling doctors and getting remittances plus tourism.

And I'm sure the cheapest price  on chicken is offered by the US or they wouldn't buy it there.
But that hipocrisy of not even being able to raise chickens and condemming a myth is a laughable constant attempt at hiding their failures that not even their own population believes anymore.

[Ken Gargett]

On 3/16/2021 at 12:12 AM, Kevin48438 said:

According to the article, the chickens are to be produced on the island.   The Spanish company looks to be fronting the costs and using their expertise to build the facilities.

The article is well over a year old.  Any update on the build?   Any chickens yet?

perhaps they thought that they came before the egg. 

[Corylax18]

10 hours ago, Bijan said:

I am confused... To me the problem of the embargo would be Cuba not being able to sell goods to the US. Not the ability to spend the little cash they have on chickens they could probably get cheaper elsewhere if it were not for us sanctions.

As Nino implied, if they actually had anything to trade, they could trade all of it with China or Russia, or Venezuela until a couple years ago. 

They don't seem to have any trouble getting Cigars and Rum off the island, or their full value in cash back in return. 

The embargo undoubtedly makes their lives harder. But its not the reason for their current situation, the Cuban government is. 

[Bijan]

5 hours ago, nino said:

Tell me which goods Cuba would sell to the US or the world - once the "sugar island" it has now to import even sugar from France ... their primary currency earner is selling doctors and getting remittances plus tourism.

And I'm sure the cheapest price  on chicken is offered by the US or they wouldn't buy it there.
But that hipocrisy of not even being able to raise chickens and condemming a myth is a laughable constant attempt at hiding their failures that not even their own population believes anymore.

Thanks Nino that makes some sense. I'm thinking of it from my perspective here in Canada. If Canada were forced to not export any goods to the US it would probably be worse for us than not being able to import goods from the US.

If they have no goods then no difference. Though I suppose they could get some American tourists in though probably wouldn't change things if as you say they can't even raise chickens due to theft of grain.

[Ken Gargett]

5 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

As Nino implied, if they actually had anything to trade, they could trade all of it with China or Russia, or Venezuela until a couple years ago. 

They don't seem to have any trouble getting Cigars and Rum off the island, or their full value in cash back in return. 

The embargo undoubtedly makes their lives harder. But its not the reason for their current situation, the Cuban government is. 

we've gone round in circles on this numerous times before. maintaining the embargo allows a corrupt government to use it as an excuse to impose their dictatorship. take away the absurd embargo and, while it may not happen immediately, the pressure on the government from within cuba will make it far more difficult for them to maintain their control. 

all very well to criticise the country for a crap economy but no embargo for the last few decades and who knows what might have been achieved. 

govt or embargo to blame? it really is the chicken and the egg. 

[Nino]

36 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

we've gone round in circles on this numerous times before. maintaining the embargo allows a corrupt government to use it as an excuse to impose their dictatorship. take away the absurd embargo and, while it may not happen immediately, the pressure on the government from within cuba will make it far more difficult for them to maintain their control. 

all very well to criticise the country for a crap economy but no embargo for the last few decades and who knows what might have been achieved. 

govt or embargo to blame? it really is the chicken and the egg. 

Good - I am all for your idea and would love to see it happen as much as I would love as many people call for an end of the "internal embargo" by the Cuban gvmt. that is not as well known but so much more damaging to the Cuban people.

[Ken Gargett]

50 minutes ago, nino said:

Good - I am all for your idea and would love to see it happen as much as I would love as many people call for an end of the "internal embargo" by the Cuban gvmt. that is not as well known but so much more damaging to the Cuban people.

same effect. govt goes and so does its oppression.