Jorge Padron talks about dark and oily wrappers.

[PuroDan]

26 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

 

This is not an issue of "either it is happening or it's not"

It is an issue of  "some do it and some don't" 

I am not sure why it is so hard?

 

My point exactly

 

26 minutes ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

In fairness: the quote comes from Gary Kolb over at Cigar Advisor from an article he wrote back in 2008.

I thought since Kolb had it in quotations he was quoting Jorge Padron?

[Kevin48438]

I’m all for calling out companies that are dishonest about their process, tobacco, or anything really.   But evidence should be provided.

That way we can avoid them if desired. 

[PuroDan]

2 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

I’m all for calling out companies that are dishonest about their process, tobacco, or anything really.   But evidence should be provided.

That way we can avoid them if desired. 

Agreed. I never said that any particular company put chemicals on thier cigars. I will say that liga privada tastes like chemicals to me and many others though.

[Cigar Surgeon]

11 minutes ago, PuroDan said:

I figured it was in quotations so that means Jorge said it?

Sure, Gary wrote in his blog article that he's citing Jorge, so we're taking that at face value as I said. There's also no detail from Gary or Jorge in that article supplying details regarding that claim. It ranks up there with all the claims in the NC industry of Habanos SA importing non-Cuban tobacco to blend cigars with.

Show me a picture of a bail or a sales receipt supporting that claim, until then it's fanciful supposition. 

Hamlet isn't making a similar claim as Jorge, he's saying what I said on page 1 that there are multiple processes employed that are used in making a 'Maduro' wrapper.

The heart of the matter, that I keep returning to address, is the claim of 'mineral oil' both levelled in general at NC cigar making, and specifically at Drew Estate which I also directly addressed.

I don't believe 'mineral oil' is employed simply because it doesn't make sense. I've never heard a substantiated claim of this from any cigar manufacturer. Mineral oil would cause a wrapper not to to burn, additionally that's not going to do add any value. What is gained by adding mineral oil to a wrapper? To gain a shine to it? 

1 minute ago, PuroDan said:

Agreed. I never said that any particular company put chemicals on thier cigars. I will say that liga privada tastes like chemicals to me and many others though.

And that's where the disconnect is. There's this leap from; I believe I taste this thing to, Drew Estate is doing this with their Liga Privada cigars.

[Kevin48438]

How many Ligas have you had?

[PuroDan]

4 minutes ago, PuroDan said:

And that's where the disconnect is. There's this leap from; I believe I taste this thing to, Drew Estate is doing this with their Liga Privada cigars.

Again if you look through all my posts on this thread i never said that. Others have, i havent. I say they taste like chemicals.

9 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

How many Ligas have you had?

One was enough. But i have smoked 5 or 6 with a friend who used to like them. Didnt want to be rude

[Kevin48438]

Lot of wandering on this thread.  And some things got cleaned up.  Do I have it right?

Claim: “NC companies use mineral oil to make shiner cigars”

Response: “Doesnt make much sense sense, cuz it would probably affect the burn.  Any proof?”

Claimers: nope, but Jorge Padron heard rumors of adulterating maduro wrappers by some dishonest company(ies) (my note: probably Onyx).   Also, Ligas are weird and i got some black shit on my hands

claim 2:  This love of chemicals extends to fertilization and farming techniques.  NC use chem fertilizers, CC all natural.

Response: nope, they both use a combo.  

 

 

 

   20 minutes ago,  Kevin48438 said: 

How many Ligas have you had?

One was enough. But i have smoked 5 or 6 with a friend who used to like them. Didnt want to be rude

 

And you got something on your hands?

[Tstew75]

*insert eating popcorn GIF*

[PuroDan]

7 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

And you got something on your hands?

Did i say that? No. WHAT???

[B44]

I feel like I found something brown on my hands after wandering through this thread lol

[PuroDan]

1 minute ago, B44 said:

I feel like I found something brown on my hands after wandering through this thread lol

Lol

[Puros Y Vino]

1 hour ago, SmokyFontaine said:

The Surgeon is nailing it for me. Lol at the idea that NC manufacturers somehow haven't unlocked the mysteries of how to grow a crop, and that only the mystics of Cuba understand how to age and blend cigars. I mean, who is this "Padron" character? What would he know about making his cigars? I'll bet you get a box, and half or more just won't burn, are plugged, and need to rest for 5 years to hopefully lose ammonia because they were underfermented. 🙄

Taste is totally subjective of course. Personally, I would never choose just one country's product when so many have great tobacco. But to pretend like NCs somehow haven't figured out how to produce quality, natural products, while defending CC's, whose number 1 weakness is lack of consistency, is insane. Throwing around rumor and lies to try to discount one of them is just gross. Smoke what you like. 

I don't think it's the actual farmers that are to blame in Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, etc. I do think they've been passed down their knowledge from the generations before them.  My money is on the "bigshots" who come to their countries with a vision for their cigars and what it would take to best the Cuban cigar.  I think this is where you see the chicanery and experimentation.  Whether it's in the flavour profile or the look of the tobacco on the finished product.

[PuroDan]

5 minutes ago, bundwallah said:

I don't think it's the actual farmers that are to blame in Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, etc. I do think they've been passed down their knowledge from the generations before them.  My money is on the "bigshots" who come to their countries with a vision for their cigars and what it would take to best the Cuban cigar.  I think this is where you see the chicanery and experimentation.  Whether it's in the flavour profile or the look of the tobacco on the finished product.

Thats why NC companies throw that big word around. "Cubanesque"in their marketing . 😉

[Deeg]

I'm not sure why this is so #$%* complicated.  Some NC companies use bad juju on their wrappers, most don't.  Generalizing and making unsubstantiated accusations is bad.  Smoke whatever you like.

[Kevin48438]

18 minutes ago, PuroDan said:

Did i say that? No. WHAT???

I can’t figure out how to clip quotes from multiple posts, but you and bundwallah both have wrote of stuff on hands on page 2 of the thread.   Referencing Ligas.

 

 

1 hour ago, PuroDan said:

 

So this answers the question of why peoples fingers get all covered in tar, at least with the slurry. At least its natural i guess. Still deceptive imo. No wonder they smell, smoke and taste so badly.

 

 

4 hours ago, bundwallah said:

I will never forget the Drew Estate "slurry" video that was on the CA site years ago.  Many have seen it.  They were heating up the tar from the stems in a big wok style pot and dragging wrapper leaves through it. They boasted about how this gave their wrappers a consistent shade from box to box.  Now as unappealing as this was to me, at least this was using tobacco byproduct.  The RP/DE java cigars are a crime against humanity. For the five minutes I endured one, the stains on my fingers, lips and soul that they left, took a while to wash off. It was like a terracotta mud.  Gross.   

 

[PuroDan]

56 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

I can’t figure out how to clip quotes from multiple posts, but you and bundwallah both have wrote of stuff on hands on page 2 of the thread.   Referencing Ligas.

 

I said something is wrong with how much they smoke and the room note is repugnant. If you paid me to smoke a liga i wouldnt. They disgust me and im not the only one

 

56 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

I can’t figure out how to clip quotes from multiple posts, but you and bundwallah both have wrote of stuff on hands on page 2 of the thread.   Referencing Ligas.

 

Yep

 

 

 

 

56 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

So this answers the question of why peoples fingers get all covered in tar, at least with the slurry. At least its natural i guess. Still deceptive imo. No wonder they smell, smoke and taste so badly

 

[Puros Y Vino]

1 minute ago, Kevin48438 said:

 

I stand by it. Horrible experience with the Java Toro.  Didn't get that residue from the cigars I've smoked in the LP line.

[Kevin48438]

Yeah it was bundeallah who said stuff on hands happened to him.  You just hate them.  Which is fair.  They are different than any CC I know of.  I like them, but I don’t like the Acid and Java cigars.  But I’m not offended they exist.

[PuroDan]

49 minutes ago, PuroDan said:

 

 

Again. Read. Peoples fingers. Not mine

 

48 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

Yeah it was bundeallah who said stuff on hands happened to him.  You just hate them.  Which is fair.  They are different than any CC I know of.  I like them, but I don’t like the Acid and Java cigars.  But I’m not offended they exist.

Thats cool like @Deeg said. Smoke what you like. I love the taste of Cuban Cigars

[Kevin48438]

Aha!   There you go the infused (public knowledge, no dishonesty) cigars had some of that shit get on your hands.  Haven’t had that happen, but I’ve not smoked many because I dont like them.  Performed fine, just not the flavors for me

[PuroDan]

2 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

Aha!   There you go the infused (public knowledge, no dishonesty) cigars had some of that shit get on your hands.  Haven’t had that happen, but I’ve not smoked many because I dont like them.  Performed fine, just not the flavors for me

What Cubans do you enjoy if any?

[Puros Y Vino]

2 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

Aha!   There you go the infused (public knowledge, no dishonesty) cigars had some of that shit get on your hands.  Haven’t had that happen, but I’ve not smoked many because I dont like them.  Performed fine, just not the flavors for me

I was new to cigars then.  I knew the Java were infused, but I thought that with this cigar they put some coffee grounds on the filler or something. Didnt' expect the wrapper to sweat the color out.   The only positive thing I can say about them is they smelled great unlit. After some flame, it was all downhill.  

I thought I took pictures of it back in the day but I was wrong. While searching I did find this reference to similar staining but with regular production NC's.

 

[Kevin48438]

What Cubans do you enjoy if any?
 

I like almost all of them in some level or for some purpose.   Favorites are BFF, Monte 2, Lusi, PP2, Cohiba Lancero or esplendido for my bigger evening cigars, PD4, RASS, RyJ short church for midday, robusto-ish 1 hr cigars.   I’ve had very few LEs or REs.  I prefer to stock up and age my faves

[Fuzz]

40 minutes ago, Tstew75 said:

*insert eating popcorn GIF*

Ok...

[Deeg]

5 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Ok...

Stay current, Baby.