Humidor on top of radiant floor

[Trapper99]

Ok, so I am building a new home, and it is ICF construction so the home itself will have a very stable climate. I really only have one spot for a humidor, and it will have to be an under counter type in our dining room where we will have a built in type buffet/bar/wine fridge. I can go up to 2’ wide by 3’ tall and 2’ deep. The floor underneath will be heated by radiant, so because of this, I am thinking I need a wineador type (281e). I think for most of the year, I could keep the cooling off, but in winter the floor underneath is going to be 80df or more, and I’m worried if a humidor doesn’t have cooling, this heat will transfer up right up thru the humidor. Also, the compromise with the wife was that she gets a wine cooler underneath the countertop, so I like the idea of them matching (2 281e side by side).

I guess my main question is in my situation, do you think a wineador type will be the best humidor for me. This is really the only spot that is wife approved. 

[Greenhorn2]

13 hours ago, Trapper99 said:

Ok, so I am building a new home, and it is ICF construction so the home itself will have a very stable climate. I really only have one spot for a humidor, and it will have to be an under counter type in our dining room where we will have a built in type buffet/bar/wine fridge. I can go up to 2’ wide by 3’ tall and 2’ deep. The floor underneath will be heated by radiant, so because of this, I am thinking I need a wineador type (281e). I think for most of the year, I could keep the cooling off, but in winter the floor underneath is going to be 80df or more, and I’m worried if a humidor doesn’t have cooling, this heat will transfer up right up thru the humidor. Also, the compromise with the wife was that she gets a wine cooler underneath the countertop, so I like the idea of them matching (2 281e side by side).

I guess my main question is in my situation, do you think a wineador type will be the best humidor for me. This is really the only spot that is wife approved. 

Get a new wife with higher humidor approval ratings. Lol. Wish I  was smart enough to help you with the question about the humidor.  Jokes aside , one thing you might look into is the probability of condensation. Is the heated floor and cooler going to work against each other and cause moisture problems in either the floor or humidor? Wondering myself.

[Fosgate]

I've got a 281e that I bought a set of cabinets from wineadors.com. I found the only way I can get another  281e is directly from New AIr as remanufactured. Last week I got a NWC050SS00. I really like the new one. Though I was not looking for one that I can buy prebilt spanish cedar shelves for. It has the same footprint but more storage space an it's already sealed with no drain to seal up. That said I bought it for storing boxes while my other one has the drawers for singles, A/T, and cigars I smoke a bit quicker in dress boxes. 

That said, looking at your situation I can tell you will experience condensation. I keep my house 72f in winter and 69f in summer and with the 281e I can only run it down to about 62 before condensation starts to form. Which is fine since I keep mine at 65f and 65rh. But I don't have a heated floor and would suspect even at 65 that I would get condensation in the cooler. I think what would satisfy your problem though would be a dual zone fridge. Keep the wine in the bottom where that outside temp is higher and keep that condensation seperated from the humidor up top. This would bring in the  NWC043SS00 or AWR-460DB. The 043SS00 would have more room for your cigars. 

There are also non-new airs to consider if you can find them. They are both purpose built for cigars with cedar. The Whynter is about half the money of the HCCHZR.  Whynter CWC-351DD https://www.amazon.com/Whynter-CWC-351DD-Freestanding-Humidor-Stainless/dp/B01B78IJTM and  HCCHZR B08L7XRZDV https://www.amazon.com/HCCHZR-Temperature-Humidor-Refrigerator-Operation/dp/B08L7XRZDV

[Trapper99]

Thank you for the suggestions so far. The wife wasn’t a fan of the first option greenhorn?. I looked into the details of my radiant floor heat, and it says the floor will be approx 5* above the room temp, and in the winter I will likely keep the house at 69. One other sticking point is I just looked at the clearances for the 281 (yes, refurb from new air) and no way that would work for an under counter design. I really would need a built it, which would likely separate the unit from the radiant floor, but they have the hot air blowing underneath them. Has anyone used a built in for a wineador? 
 

Another option is convert a base cabinet and try and insulate it as best as possible to separate it from the radiant floor. Base cabinet is 5” off the floor, so I could to couple inches of foam, a reflective barrier, and a fan to clear hot air from underneath.

[Fosgate]

1 hour ago, Trapper99 said:

Thank you for the suggestions so far. The wife wasn’t a fan of the first option greenhorn?. I looked into the details of my radiant floor heat, and it says the floor will be approx 5* above the room temp, and in the winter I will likely keep the house at 69. One other sticking point is I just looked at the clearances for the 281 (yes, refurb from new air) and no way that would work for an under counter design. I really would need a built it, which would likely separate the unit from the radiant floor, but they have the hot air blowing underneath them. Has anyone used a built in for a wineador? 
 

Another option is convert a base cabinet and try and insulate it as best as possible to separate it from the radiant floor. Base cabinet is 5” off the floor, so I could to couple inches of foam, a reflective barrier, and a fan to clear hot air from underneath.

If they use Thermano style boards under the heated floor you could salvage a section of sheet to install under the wineador or if you convert a cabinet. Also when they are sunning the lines you could ask them to not lay them under where the cabinets are going to be. I don't think you would want them running under a weighted area like that long term anyway due to risk of compression/collapse of a line. 

 

[Trapper99]

On 2/14/2021 at 4:15 PM, Fosgate said:

If they use Thermano style boards under the heated floor you could salvage a section of sheet to install under the wineador or if you convert a cabinet. Also when they are sunning the lines you could ask them to not lay them under where the cabinets are going to be. I don't think you would want them running under a weighted area like that long term anyway due to risk of compression/collapse of a line. 

 

Unfortunately not laying the pipe under the cabinets isn't an option, because it's already finished and the floor tiled. I have 6" of XPS foam under the radiant slab. The whole slab is heated, even under the cabinets. The theory here is if you don't heat the whole slab, the heat will migrate to the cold unheated parts.

Anyway, back onto the humidor solution. I think I am going to scrap the wineador idea (because of the condensation issue) and build a custom base cabinet humidor (this should hide right into the home decor). I will 100% insulate the underside of the cabinet, but I am thinking I should insulate inside also. I'm thinking just build the carcass out of 3/4" ply, then line the inside with 1" of foam on all surfaces, then line on top of the foam with 1/2" mahogany plywood. This will give me 2.25" of thickness, and I can make a 1x3 faceframe which will give me a lot of surface area for a door seal overlap. Then of course insulate the back of the door to fit the cabinet opening. Basically it would just be a coolidor in a fancy box. 

Anything wrong with the logic here? 

[Fosgate]

1 hour ago, Trapper99 said:

Unfortunately not laying the pipe under the cabinets isn't an option, because it's already finished and the floor tiled. I have 6" of XPS foam under the radiant slab. The whole slab is heated, even under the cabinets. The theory here is if you don't heat the whole slab, the heat will migrate to the cold unheated parts.

Anyway, back onto the humidor solution. I think I am going to scrap the wineador idea (because of the condensation issue) and build a custom base cabinet humidor (this should hide right into the home decor). I will 100% insulate the underside of the cabinet, but I am thinking I should insulate inside also. I'm thinking just build the carcass out of 3/4" ply, then line the inside with 1" of foam on all surfaces, then line on top of the foam with 1/2" mahogany plywood. This will give me 2.25" of thickness, and I can make a 1x3 faceframe which will give me a lot of surface area for a door seal overlap. Then of course insulate the back of the door to fit the cabinet opening. Basically it would just be a coolidor in a fancy box. 

Anything wrong with the logic here? 

I think your on the right track. Just need a good vapor/moisture barrier to keep the whole cabinetry unit from absorbing water. 

[Trapper99]

Started in the carcass for the humidor base cabinet. The goal is to have it blend in to the rest of the cabinets in the house. It’s 24w 24d 34.5h. I used 1x3 for the face frames, so I have inside a 1.75” “flange” to allow me to use 1” insulation and 1/2” mahogany ply to line the inside. The wide face frames will also allow me to put a good door seal around the opening. I will also be able to put insulation on the underside of the cabinet. I will route a small opening on the bottom of the face frames to allow air to flow from underneath the humidor, perhaps with a fan. The goal is to not trap any heat from the radiant floor under the cabinet. 
 

Two questions:

1: Any input on what type of insulation? XPS, EPS? I assume polyiso wouldn’t be good because I think it can outgas for awhile. 
 

2: As far as vapor sealing...the carcass is built with prefinished ply, so if I caulk the joints it would be 100% sealed, and would put the insulation and mahogany ply inside the sealed area, and possibly able to soak up humidity (good or bad?). Should I seal anywhere else (ie: backside of mahogany ply or front side?) I think if anything the backside so that keeps the insulation out of the sealed inside.

 

[Fosgate]

Reflectix or Frost King. 

 

[Trapper99]

Lacquered up!

 

[PrairieSmoke]

I’m late to the party here. It looks like you are already in process. I was going to suggest you could look at in-wall humidor options. 

[Trapper99]

Coming along

[Fosgate]

Thats going to be sweet. Have you been able to find Spanish cedar for it?

[Trapper99]

10 hours ago, Fosgate said:

Thats going to be sweet. Have you been able to find Spanish cedar for it?

I haven't, at least not at a reasonable price. I think I am going to go with Mahogany ply that has a poplar core. I also commissioned John's Woodworks to make shelving, which will be out of cedar. We are doing one singles drawer for the top, and then two flat shelves all on full extension slides. Example pictures he sent me below.

I can't decide if I want to mount the bottom sliding shelf all the way at the bottom of the cabinet, or keep it up 6 to 8 inches so then I can stack boxes on the bottom of the cabinet also (as well as humidity source which will be probably just beads and a fan). I can stack more long term boxes down there then keep boxes that I'm into near the top. Once I get the shelves I'll play around with the set up and decide I think.

[Trapper99]

Drawers are in from John’s Woodworks!

[Trapper99]

Finally got it finished up! Currently has 650 sticks in, could probably fit anywhere between 850 and 1000!

[Trapper99]

Found some additional photos I didn’t post. Insulated the whole inside, and lined with mahogany play. 
 

Look at that steady temp over a 24 hour period  (the chart doesn’t look like it but staying within .8*). Humidity coming up and leveling out nicely.