Homemade Wine: Where Do You Get The Grapes & Other Questions

[Kitchen]

So I recently decided to lay off the cheese making, I have about 80 lbs right now, and get back into the magic art of making alcoholic beverages.  I use to make my own beer, but the steeping and boiling of the wort is more then what I want to deal with, especially with a brand new white kitchen.  So, I decided to covert over to wine making, a simple enough conversion that requires no boiling and can be done in my garage.  

I started with a Pinot Noir kit that included crushed grapes.  This was an easy easy adventure, however I would prefer to give it a try using real grapes, just like I use to do all malt brewing.  

Questing, is it worth it?  

Where do you get the grapes usually?  I realize they would be seasonal and not available now.   

With this Pinot Noir kit, they did include oak powder to mix in during primary fermentation, but I also bought medium toasted American oak cubes to add a little more oak to the wine.  Any suggestions on how much to use, when to add, how to monitor the progression, how long to let the cubes sit?  I do plan on doing malolactic fermentation and naturally degassing the wine over 9 months.  

Thanks.  

[Colt45]

14 minutes ago, Kitchen said:

I started with a Pinot Noir kit that included crushed grapes.  This was an easy easy adventure, however I would prefer to give it a try using real grapes, just like I use to do all malt brewing.  

Questing, is it worth it?  

Where do you get the grapes usually?  I realize they would be seasonal and not available now.   

With this Pinot Noir kit, they did include oak powder to mix in during primary fermentation, but I also bought medium toasted American oak cubes to add a little more oak to the wine.  Any suggestions on how much to use, when to add, how to monitor the progression, how long to let the cubes sit?  I do plan on doing malolactic fermentation and naturally degassing the wine over 9 months.  

Thanks.  

I've never done it, so please take my thoughts with grains of salt. Briefly, personally....

It's certainly worth trying, but with all that goes into producing decent quality wine, I can't imagine doing it myself. Somewhat mystifying for me would be adding oak during fermentation (and I'm no fan of chips / powder) - I'd be more inclined to invest in a barrel and use it judiciously (I'm also no fan of overly oaked wines). When it comes to pinot specifically, I'm a fan of the Burgundian style vs. the "stereotypical" style found in many Californian pinots - but that's subjective and could be considered painting with a broad brush.

Were I to give it a go, I'd probably start with cabernet, as my personal feeling is that it's a "neutral" varietal which relies mainly on vintner intervention - again, my subjective opinion, and I drink very little cab or merlot these days.

Best luck and let us know how it goes.

 

 

[Kitchen]

4 minutes ago, Colt45 said:

I've never done it, so please take my thoughts with grains of salt. Briefly, personally....

It's certainly worth trying, but with all that goes into producing decent quality wine, I can't imagine doing it myself. Somewhat mystifying for me would be adding oak during fermentation (and I'm no fan of chips / powder) - I'd be more inclined to invest in a barrel and use it judiciously (I'm also no fan of overly oaked wines). When it comes to pinot specifically, I'm a fan of the Burgundian style vs. the "stereotypical" style found in many Californian pinots - but that's subjective and could be considered painting with a broad brush.

Were I to give it a go, I'd probably start with cabernet, as my personal feeling is that it's a "neutral" varietal which relies mainly on vintner intervention - again, my subjective opinion, and I drink very little cab or merlot these days.

Best luck and let us know how it goes.

 

 

I certainly would love to use a real barrel and feel it would be the best, but they are pretty expensive.  You are talking about a handmade item where the larger the size the more economical it is.  I would figure a 20 gallon barrel would be the minimum in order to make the purchase worth.  Just not something I want to invest in right now.  Plus a barrel is  going to be around 50 to 80 lb. empty.  Adding in 20+ gallons of wine, and that thing is going to be damn heavy. 

[Erm310mce]

Hey Kitchen,

been making homemade wine with my family all my life. Started in Italy and here in the states still with my Dad. 
 

Is it worth it? Absolutely, I spend time with my Dad. We have made a medium investment in barrels, a press, glass etc. 

once a year a bunch of us pay into a full truck from California. We chose what variety we want, lots around here like to make Zinfandel but plenty of guys like blends, cab, pinot etc. 

You may have luck finding distribution through a local hobby store that sells beer, wine accessories etc. otherwise we have a state fruit distribution center that in early October is set up for people to drive in and buy bushels from California. 

Its certainly not easy and.... if you are expecting amazing wines off the bat it’s probably not going to happen. If you can be light and not get caught up in the pretentious world of wine, just have fun, you can make really enjoyable wines.

I have a cellar of barolos, chateauneufs, barbarescos... and certainly I’m under no delusion that my wine is anywhere in the same world of Clerico or Conterno... haha

I'm having fun with my dad carrying on family tradition.

Good luck, it is a lot of work so if you go for it, go all in. 
 

 

[Colt45]

7 hours ago, Kitchen said:

I certainly would love to use a real barrel and feel it would be the best, but they are pretty expensive.  You are talking about a handmade item where the larger the size the more economical it is.  I would figure a 20 gallon barrel would be the minimum in order to make the purchase worth.  Just not something I want to invest in right now.  Plus a barrel is  going to be around 50 to 80 lb. empty.  Adding in 20+ gallons of wine, and that thing is going to be damn heavy. 

Go big or go home!

But really, I'm in no way attempting to dissuade you - I hope you try it and let us know, and if any other members have done it, I'd love to hear how it went. I guess as an analogy, for me it would be like attempting to produce my own camera film

That said, I will shortly be popping the cork on a bottle of Segura Viudas Rosé Cava - $7.97 at my local - cheers!

 

6 hours ago, Erm310mce said:

I have a cellar of barolos, chateauneufs, barbarescos...

Not from California fruit!  ???

[brutusthebuckeye]

9 minutes ago, Erm310mce said:

Hey Kitchen,

been making homemade wine with my family all my life. Started in Italy and here in the states still with my Dad. 
 

Is it worth it? Absolutely, I spend time with my Dad. We have made a medium investment in barrels, a press, glass etc. 

once a year a bunch of us pay into a full truck from California. We chose what variety we want, lots around here like to make Zinfandel but plenty of guys like blends, cab, pinot etc. 

You may have luck finding distribution through a local hobby store that sells beer, wine accessories etc. otherwise we have a state fruit distribution center that in early October is set up for people to drive in and buy bushels from California. 

Its certainly not easy and.... if you are expecting amazing wines off the bat it’s probably not going to happen. If you can be light and not get caught up in the pretentious world of wine, just have fun, you can make really enjoyable wines.

I have a cellar of barolos, chateauneufs, barbarescos... and certainly I’m under no delusion that my wine is anywhere in the same world of Clerico or Conterno... haha

I'm having fun with my dad carrying on family tradition.

Good luck, it is a lot of work so if you go for it, go all in. 
 

 

My dad used to crush the grapes but as him and his friends got older they would just buy the juice in 6 gallon jugs and transfer it over to a glass 5 gallon jug and let it work then use the last gallon to fill back up. They got some really good wine doing it that way and it was way easier. 

[Erm310mce]

5 hours ago, Colt45 said:

Not from California fruit!  ???

Correct.... tough to import a bunch of Nebbiolo from Piemonte to press ?

 

5 hours ago, brutusthebuckeye said:

My dad used to crush the grapes but as him and his friends got older they would just buy the juice in 6 gallon jugs and transfer it over to a glass 5 gallon jug and let it work then use the last gallon to fill back up. They got some really good wine doing it that way and it was way easier. 

Hey Brutus! Long time brother, how you been? 
 

My dad and I have talked about this and maybe we will give it a go this year. It is certainly easier than using the big press and crushing. I’m glad to hear you are having success doing it. 

[Colt45]

2 minutes ago, Erm310mce said:

Correct.... tough to import a bunch of Nebbiolo from Piemonte to press ?

ya just have to know a guy!

[Ken Gargett]

i tried it once at uni. one lot was the vilest thing ever concocted. the other was much worse. 

if you have any connections in the Italian community, they can usually point you to someone who will have contacts for the grapes. or if any wineries in your region, try them. they might sell you a cheap load. 

as for barrels, again, try the wineries. or garden nurseries. they sometimes buy old barrels from wineries. 

i suspect it will be a lot of mucking about and trial and error but probably good fun in the end. and if you end up with something drinkable, very rewarding. 

i've tried a few cheeses. mixed success. have a cheddar i have been ageing for about 15 months and keen to see if it has worked. you obviously have that sorted. 

[Kitchen]

52 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

i tried it once at uni. one lot was the vilest thing ever concocted. the other was much worse. 

if you have any connections in the Italian community, they can usually point you to someone who will have contacts for the grapes. or if any wineries in your region, try them. they might sell you a cheap load. 

as for barrels, again, try the wineries. or garden nurseries. they sometimes buy old barrels from wineries. 

i suspect it will be a lot of mucking about and trial and error but probably good fun in the end. and if you end up with something drinkable, very rewarding. 

i've tried a few cheeses. mixed success. have a cheddar i have been ageing for about 15 months and keen to see if it has worked. you obviously have that sorted. 

Thanks Ken, should be fun.  

Insofar as barrels, there is a difference in the flavors they impact based on whether they are new, used once, etc.  

Good luck with the cheese.  Has it been stored at 52 degrees and 82% RH?  

[Ken Gargett]

11 minutes ago, Kitchen said:

Thanks Ken, should be fun.  

Insofar as barrels, there is a difference in the flavors they impact based on whether they are new, used once, etc.  

Good luck with the cheese.  Has it been stored at 52 degrees and 82% RH?  

thanks. that was pretty close to what i had the cheese at but have moved it to the fridge. time to eat it, i think.

huge differences in what barrels do. i would think that if you are a tiny operation for family fun, it would be crazy to think of new barrels. way too expensive and i can't imagine you'd be sourcing the level of grapes that would need new. unless you have a great connection and prepared to spend a lot of money. 

 

[Kitchen]

10 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

thanks. that was pretty close to what i had the cheese at but have moved it to the fridge. time to eat it, i think.

huge differences in what barrels do. i would think that if you are a tiny operation for family fun, it would be crazy to think of new barrels. way too expensive and i can't imagine you'd be sourcing the level of grapes that would need new. unless you have a great connection and prepared to spend a lot of money. 

 

Very good point.  

I would plan on starting off a Cab in a barrel fermented 40% whole bunch to get the most out of it.  Then move onto a Pinot Noir, and perhaps finish with a Chardonnay.  Then move the barrel to just some type of storage vessel; after year 3 isn't a barrel pretty much depleted?  

 

15 months of storage on cheese is pretty good, but not too much.  I have a couple of wheels I plan on letting sit for 5 years.   Although my Rocheforts hit their stride at 4 months.  

[brutusthebuckeye]

2 hours ago, Erm310mce said:

Hey Brutus! Long time brother, how you been? 
 

My dad and I have talked about this and maybe we will give it a go this year. It is certainly easier than using the big press and crushing. I’m glad to hear you are having success doing it. 

Hey Erm...I’ve been good. 
You still have some of those 09 Monte 2’s?

 

[Erm310mce]

1 hour ago, brutusthebuckeye said:

Hey Erm...I’ve been good. 
You still have some of those 09 Monte 2’s?

 

I do man, I actually had one this morning on the golf course. They are still awesome. How about you? 

[brutusthebuckeye]

Yep. Still have a few left

[Goodfortune]

6 hours ago, Kitchen said:

So I recently decided to lay off the cheese making, I have about 80 lbs right now

Maybe I missed it, but any pics of the homemade cheese? Would love to see and hear about it.

[Kitchen]

On 6/5/2020 at 10:20 PM, Goodfortune said:

Maybe I missed it, but any pics of the homemade cheese? Would love to see and hear about it.

Here's one, but not all that I have is shown.  I have right now 3 wheels of bandaged Gouda, 3 of Gruyere, 1 Emmentaler, 1 Stilton, 1 Rochefort, 2 Camembert, and 1 Blue Camembert.  I use an 8 inch round mold for all of them.  Most of my recipes are 6 gallon ones, and depending on cheese and how hard or soft it is, the weights range from 5.5 to 12 lb.  The Camemberts only use 2.5 gallons and are around 3 lbs each wheel.  

[Goodfortune]

2 hours ago, Kitchen said:

Here's one, but not all that I have is shown.  I have right now 3 wheels of bandaged Gouda, 3 of Gruyere, 1 Emmentaler, 1 Stilton, 1 Rochefort, 2 Camembert, and 1 Blue Camembert.  I use an 8 inch round mold for all of them.  Most of my recipes are 6 gallon ones, and depending on cheese and how hard or soft it is, the weights range from 5.5 to 12 lb.  The Camemberts only use 2.5 gallons and are around 3 lbs each wheel.  

Thank you for sharing! Very impressive work, they all look delicious! ?

[BrightonCorgi]

On 6/7/2020 at 9:19 AM, Kitchen said:

Here's one, but not all that I have is shown.  I have right now 3 wheels of bandaged Gouda, 3 of Gruyere, 1 Emmentaler, 1 Stilton, 1 Rochefort, 2 Camembert, and 1 Blue Camembert.  I use an 8 inch round mold for all of them.  Most of my recipes are 6 gallon ones, and depending on cheese and how hard or soft it is, the weights range from 5.5 to 12 lb.  The Camemberts only use 2.5 gallons and are around 3 lbs each wheel.  

Those look beautiful.  Good for you!

As for wine, I would look to source regional/local grapes to your locale and make what is being made in your region.  Most likely some white wines or merlot.  I assume a similar climate to Virginia?  Some great wineries out of the state; Barboursville being the most famous. 

[prodigy]

I worked at a winery in Virginia for a summer. They were small, and were only able to make a small amount of wine from their vineyard. The rest was sourced. I was told that most local grocery stores can special order wine grapes if you ask them. I never tried, so im not sure how much truth there is to that, but its worth a shot. Won't be an option until mid September through October though.

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