Possibility of Boeing 737 Max 8/9 being permanently grounded?

[Guest Nekhyludov]

This is a very long article, but well worth a read if you have the time. It's the most thorough, most thoughtful consideration I've seen of the factors at play in the 737 Max disasters - not only the manufacturing side, but also the local conditions in the airline industries where the accidents took place.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/magazine/boeing-737-max-crashes.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

[ATGroom]

5 hours ago, Nekhyludov said:

This is a very long article, but well worth a read if you have the time. It's the most thorough, most thoughtful consideration I've seen of the factors at play in the 737 Max disasters - not only the manufacturing side, but also the local conditions in the airline industries where the accidents took place.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/magazine/boeing-737-max-crashes.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

Actually came here to post this too. Great article.

The TLDR is that Boeing made some inexplicable choices leading to a design flaw. Staggeringly incompetent pilots, ground crew, and corrupt aviation authorities in Indonesia and Ethiopia made it lethal.   

[Duxnutz]

12 hours ago, ATGroom said:

Actually came here to post this too. Great article.

The TLDR is that Boeing made some inexplicable choices leading to a design flaw. Staggeringly incompetent pilots, ground crew, and corrupt aviation authorities in Indonesia and Ethiopia made it lethal.   

Basic stick and rudder skills probably not as good (on average to Western pilots) but calling them incompetent might be a bit harsh. The MCAS and the function of it was not trained nor a description of it even found in the technical manuals (FCOM/FCTM) for that aircraft. 

A real Cock up. 

[etakmit]

1 hour ago, Duxnutz said:

Basic stick and rudder skills probably not as good (on average to Western pilots) but calling them incompetent might be a bit harsh. The MCAS and the function of it was not trained nor a description of it even found in the technical manuals (FCOM/FCTM) for that aircraft. 

A real Cock up. 

Definitely a failure from many angles.  Boeing, the airlines, the pilots, etc.  There is something to be said in the differences of training and learning in every country.

[RyviaUSA]

As a private pilot of 20 years, I always prefer stepping on an Airbus for both domestic and long hauls.  The A320/321 is easily the undisputed short haul jet.  I was just on a 321 last week for a 3 hour flight.  They're amazing planes.

I've done the 747 from CA to Taiwan.  That model is seriously 20yrs past time to retire it.  The 777 is nice, but honestly the A330 was a nicer ride from the US to Europe.  

I think Boeing was struggling before this latest max disaster.  It has been artificially propped up by our country's preference to go with the American company.  Really disappoint all around.  

 

If it's Boeing, I ain't going.  

[helix]

 Langewiesche describes the performance of the Lion Air captain, Bhavye Suneja, as “abysmal”

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/boeing-737-max-crash-aircraft-stall-grounded-pilots-blamed-a9111646.html

[Duxnutz]

7 hours ago, RyviaUSA said:

As a private pilot of 20 years, I always prefer stepping on an Airbus for both domestic and long hauls.  The A320/321 is easily the undisputed short haul jet.  I was just on a 321 last week for a 3 hour flight.  They're amazing planes.

I've done the 747 from CA to Taiwan.  That model is seriously 20yrs past time to retire it.  The 777 is nice, but honestly the A330 was a nicer ride from the US to Europe.  

I think Boeing was struggling before this latest max disaster.  It has been artificially propped up by our country's preference to go with the American company.  Really disappoint all around.  

 

If it's Boeing, I ain't going.  

I flew the 777 for a few years and now on the 330. The Boeing flew nicer in many ways and went faster in cruise. Airbus is very efficient, the wing itself is amazing but it’s an electronic plane with glitches reminiscent of a windows pc at times. Everything has multiple redundancies but it’s very common to have to reset things. I just downloaded the book ‘No mans land - the story of QF72’, which may interest you. It’s about the uncommanded nose down of a 330 due to faulty air data modules. 

[RyviaUSA]

17 hours ago, Duxnutz said:

I flew the 777 for a few years and now on the 330. The Boeing flew nicer in many ways and went faster in cruise. Airbus is very efficient, the wing itself is amazing but it’s an electronic plane with glitches reminiscent of a windows pc at times. Everything has multiple redundancies but it’s very common to have to reset things. I just downloaded the book ‘No mans land - the story of QF72’, which may interest you. It’s about the uncommanded nose down of a 330 due to faulty air data modules. 

I'll check that book out.

What has been your favorite jet to fly?  

[Nino]

21 hours ago, Duxnutz said:

QF72

This is the best account I've read of QF72 - save for the actual incident report.

It comes from the Captain himself.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-ve-become-very-isolated-the-aftermath-of-near-doomed-qf72-20190514-p51n7q.html

[Duxnutz]

11 hours ago, RyviaUSA said:

I'll check that book out.

What has been your favorite jet to fly?  

737 ironically. Great flying airplane, probably stretched too far now and over modified. 

[helix]

US flight attendants "refuse to walk on to" 737 max planes.

Boeing CEO slammed for "half truths" in congressional hearing.

Qantas finds cracks in Boeing Jets.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/flight-attendants-boeing_ca_5dbca853e4b0d8b441cee46f

[helix]

Boeing orders sink as customers opt to swap Max jets

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/us-business/article-boeing-orders-sink-as-customers-opt-to-swap-max-jets/

[bpm32]

4 hours ago, helix said:

Boeing orders sink as customers opt to swap Max jets

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/us-business/article-boeing-orders-sink-as-customers-opt-to-swap-max-jets/

I had to stare at this headline for a while. Like, why would Boeing order a single bathroom sink?

It's almost as good as "Pakistani Army Boots Elected Civilian Leader"

[helix]

Not inspiring much confidence .

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/business/boeing-737-max-fuel-tank-debris/index.html

[leapingknown]

Jyst heard on the radio yesterday that the engines were placed wrong as well...I don't know! What a mess

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[Duxnutz]

7 hours ago, leapingknown said:

Jyst heard on the radio yesterday that the engines were placed wrong as well...I don't know! What a mess

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

One of the messes to do with the short landing gear. To mount a bugger fan they had to place it in a different position so that it now goes above the wing slightly, exasperating the nose up couple at high power and most likely changing the stall characteristics on the low end. 

Such a mess, but with billions of $$$ sitting on the ramp waiting to get delivered I’m confident they’ll get things figured out. 

 

[helix]

2 hours ago, Duxnutz said:

Such a mess, but with billions of $$$ sitting on the ramp waiting to get delivered I’m confident they’ll get things figured out. 

Billions$$ is that's why Boeing and the FAA  will have to keep , what may be, a defectively designed aircraft in production and flying??