Porto y Habano

[Lingerfing]

Hobbies beget sales. Not only has my cuban cigar collection ballooned, but I've cross-sold my way to a port wine collection as well.

Any other port wine lovers out there who have a go-to? 

 

[BrightonCorgi]

I am big port wine fan.  Probably have maybe 30 cases of vintage port?  That being said, I don't have a go to port...  If it's not a vintage, some of my favorite easy to find tawny ports are:

10 or 20 year tawny from:

Noval, Ferreira, Andresen, or Sandeman.

I generally think tawny goes better with a cigar, especially the brands that have more acidity to them.  Madeira is a better pairing, which Barbeito, D'Oliveira's, and Broadbent are my favorite go to brands.

[Cayman17]

I don’t have a go-to but I love a glass of quality port with a fine cigar. I am not very knowledgeable on brand names but I recall having a glass of Churchills port at a cigar bar once that was excellent. 

[Puros Y Vino]

Same. No "go-to" Port but I find it to be my #1drink to pair with cigars.  No full cases here, but many bottles of varying brands and vintages. Mostly 2011 as I heard that was an excellent vintage to sock away.

[BrightonCorgi]

8 minutes ago, bundwallah said:

 Mostly 2011 as I heard that was an excellent vintage to sock away.

I hope you are a young man...  2011 is an exceptional vintage indeed.  I am nearly 50 years old, so buying new vintages does not make a lot of sense to me.  I did buy a 3 pack OWC of 2011 Taylor Vargellas Vinha Velha Vintage Port which is supposed to be Taylor's competitor to Nacional.  I had the same vintage in '95 that I did not think was any better than the regular Taylor, but I hear the newer VVV vintages are all that.  Got them for a song.  The OWC looked mighty cool and I did not want to be empty handed on this special vintage.

2011 is going to take another 30 years before the big names are ready to drink.  Heck, most 1994's are still very primary and nearly undrinkable to me. 

[BrightonCorgi]

26 minutes ago, Cayman17 said:

...but I recall having a glass of Churchills port at a cigar bar once that was excellent. 

Churchills makes great port and fantastic dry wine.  If you are a fan of red wine look something from them!

[Cayman17]

18 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Churchills makes great port and fantastic dry wine.  If you are a fan of red wine look something from them!

I am definitely a fan of red wine, so I will do that ??

[Puros Y Vino]

10 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

I hope you are a young man...  2011 is an exceptional vintage indeed.  I am nearly 50 years old, so buying new vintages does not make a lot of sense to me.  I did buy a 3 pack OWC of 2011 Taylor Vargellas Vinha Velha Vintage Port which is supposed to be Taylor's competitor to Nacional.  I had the same vintage in '95 that I did not think was any better than the regular Taylor, but I hear the newer VVV vintages are all that.  Got them for a song.  The OWC looked mighty cool and I did not want to be empty handed on this special vintage.

2011 is going to take another 30 years before the big names are ready to drink.  Heck, most 1994's are still very primary and nearly undrinkable to me. 

LOL.  Nope.  We're pretty much the same age.  Getting older vintages in Canada is a crapshoot.  If any older Ports makes it into our Provincially run liquor stores, it will cost 200% more than what it would in the US or Europe.  So, I have to make do.  A sommelier friend of mine gave me the heads up on the 2011 vintage "buy cases, brand won't matter, all will be good for now and 100 years from now"  <--paraphrasing of course.   I bought various bottles from different houses to sock away. I did dip into my 2011 Porto Calem back in 2014.  It was damn good.   I can't imagine what aging will do to the flavour profile.  I also bought many 2011 LBV's to drink now/sooner.  They're almost 1/3 the price of the proper releases and drink nicely.  I do have a 30YO bottle of Churchills I will be consuming on my 50th. Looking forward to that date. 

 

[BrightonCorgi]

14 minutes ago, bundwallah said:

LOL.  Nope.  We're pretty much the same age.  Getting older vintages in Canada is a crapshoot.  If any older Ports makes it into our Provincially run liquor stores, it will cost 200% more than what it would in the US or Europe.  So, I have to make do.  A sommelier friend of mine gave me the heads up on the 2011 vintage "buy cases, brand won't matter, all will be good for now and 100 years from now"  <--paraphrasing of course.   I bought various bottles from different houses to sock away. I did dip into my 2011 Porto Calem back in 2014.  It was damn good.   I can't imagine what aging will do to the flavour profile.  I also bought many 2011 LBV's to drink now/sooner.  They're almost 1/3 the price of the proper releases and drink nicely.  I do have a 30YO bottle of Churchills I will be consuming on my 50th. Looking forward to that date. 

 

How much of the Calem did you buy?   Oh, I forgot about a case of Crasto 2011 LBV I bought...  $12 a bottle was too hard to pass up. 

I have port and wine collecting friends in Quebec, so I know your pain.  Probably even worse in Quebec with SAQ.  I bring them some wine when I visit at much lower prices.

[Puros Y Vino]

2 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

How much of the Calem did you buy?   Oh, I forgot about a case of Crasto 2011 LBV I bought...  $12 a bottle was too hard to pass up. 

I have port and wine collecting friends in Quebec, so I know your pain.  Probably even worse in Quebec with SAQ.  I bring them some wine when I visit at much lower prices.

Only managed to get two bottles.    The 2011 offerings came and went really fast here.  A few more bottles made it out a year later but with an extra 30% markup. 

[ayepatz]

2 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Madeira is a better pairing, which Barbeito, D'Oliveira's, and Broadbent are my favorite go to brands.

Absolutely! I’m glad someone else thinks this, too! On my 40th birthday a few years ago, we opened a bottle of 1973 D’Oliverias Verdelho to accompany some Sir Winstons. It was a superb pairing.

[BrightonCorgi]

57 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

Absolutely! I’m glad someone else thinks this, too! On my 40th birthday a few years ago, we opened a bottle of 1973 D’Oliverias Verdelho to accompany some Sir Winstons. It was a superb pairing.

Verdelho is one of my favorites as I don't like Madeira too sweet.  

My favorite semi-reasonably priced Madiera is 1988 D'Oliveiras Terrantez.  About 10 years ago or so I was luck enough to split a bottle of 1798 Barbeito!

[BrightonCorgi]

1 hour ago, bundwallah said:

Only managed to get two bottles.    The 2011 offerings came and went really fast here.  A few more bottles made it out a year later but with an extra 30% markup. 

I think you did well to limit it to 2 bottles.   Calem is not that great, but in stellar years they can turn out something decent.  Burmester and Kopke from the same group are better products.  

[Ken Gargett]

18 hours ago, Lingerfing said:

Hobbies beget sales. Not only has my cuban cigar collection ballooned, but I've cross-sold my way to a port wine collection as well.

Any other port wine lovers out there who have a go-to? 

 

got interested in port before i got interested in wine. a touch older than you guys, not that much, but when i first got interested, the 77s were just released. so i probably still have more of them than any other vintage. i still buy young ports when i can. live in hope? but these days, they are made so that they tend to be approachable much earlier, but still age for decades from the good vintages. will be looking to find some 16s. 

[Ken Gargett]

3 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

How much of the Calem did you buy?   Oh, I forgot about a case of Crasto 2011 LBV I bought...  $12 a bottle was too hard to pass up. 

I have port and wine collecting friends in Quebec, so I know your pain.  Probably even worse in Quebec with SAQ.  I bring them some wine when I visit at much lower prices.

stayed with the family at crasto a few years back. wonderful people but talk about the other half! i have posted elsewhere about a wonderful afternoon in their infinity pool at the very top of one of the highest hills overlooking the douro with a good book and an SLR DC. i still have a 30 year old tawny they gave me. time to crack it, i think. 

[Ken Gargett]

4 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

I hope you are a young man...  2011 is an exceptional vintage indeed.  I am nearly 50 years old, so buying new vintages does not make a lot of sense to me.  I did buy a 3 pack OWC of 2011 Taylor Vargellas Vinha Velha Vintage Port which is supposed to be Taylor's competitor to Nacional.  I had the same vintage in '95 that I did not think was any better than the regular Taylor, but I hear the newer VVV vintages are all that.  Got them for a song.  The OWC looked mighty cool and I did not want to be empty handed on this special vintage.

2011 is going to take another 30 years before the big names are ready to drink.  Heck, most 1994's are still very primary and nearly undrinkable to me. 

you guys should look at the cost here before complaining. worst wine taxes of any producing country on the planet. 

those taylors VVV are fantastic wines, but they are wines that will take forever. i did the  same with a 3-pack of the 07, which were pretty reasonable at the time. most extraordinary young VP i have seen.

we did a vertical of taylors back to 1924 a little while ago. amazing day. i did a piece on it for the Fine Wine magazines. if anyone is interested, happy to send a copy of i. just drop a PM with an email address. 

 

[Lingerfing]

Tawny has been my go-to pairing and if it's no special occasion, I open a bottle of the Kirkland Signature 10-year and call it a day (can't beat the price, though a little sweet).  20-year Taylor for when I need something different. 

Thankfully DC is well-stocked locally, so I'll have to venture out into others. Here's everyone's input in one place:

• Noval (Tawny)
• Ferreira (Tawny)
• Andresen (Tawny)
• Sandeman (Tawny)
• Barbeito Verdelho 
• D'Oliveira 
• Broadbent
• 2011 Churchill's Vintage Port
• 2011 Taylor Vargellas Vinha Velha Vintage Port
• 2011 Porto Calem
• 1988 D'Oliveira Terrantez

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

those taylors VVV are fantastic wines, but they are wines that will take forever. i did the  same with a 3-pack of the 07, which were pretty reasonable at the time. most extraordinary young VP i have seen.

Want to say I got that 3 pack for under $300 USD. 

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

got interested in port before i got interested in wine. a touch older than you guys, not that much, but when i first got interested, the 77s were just released. so i probably still have more of them than any other vintage.

'77 hasn't lived up to the hype IMO.  Cork issues in some and just decent port across the board.  Some have got better like Grahams.  Many dismissed it as hot, but if they had a bottle recently would lament drinking them so casually.  Gould Campbell and Warre are the two I think of first as best of the vintage.  Only had '77 Niepoort once, but that could be a contender too.

[Ken Gargett]

34 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

'77 hasn't lived up to the hype IMO.  Cork issues in some and just decent port across the board.  Some have got better like Grahams.  Many dismissed it as hot, but if they had a bottle recently would lament drinking them so casually.  Gould Campbell and Warre are the two I think of first as best of the vintage.  Only had '77 Niepoort once, but that could be a contender too.

i think i might have had better luck with 77s. most i've seen in recent years have been stellar. certainly grahams but also taylors and fonseca. the warres was the first dozen i ever bought, of anything. more than half left. they have been great though i have seen a few others not from this case, that are less exciting. dows fair. can't recall seeing a neipoort for a very long time but they were a bit average back then. only since dirk took over have they started to fly. 

a mate, who is the importer for a lot of great burgs and other wines, including fonseca, and i have been trying to organise a tasting of 77s. hopefully soon. we have all the stars covered. 

[BrightonCorgi]

7 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

i think i might have had better luck with 77s. most i've seen in recent years have been stellar. certainly grahams but also taylors and fonseca. the warres was the first dozen i ever bought, of anything. more than half left. they have been great though i have seen a few others not from this case, that are less exciting. dows fair. can't recall seeing a neipoort for a very long time but they were a bit average back then. only since dirk took over have they started to fly. 

a mate, who is the importer for a lot of great burgs and other wines, including fonseca, and i have been trying to organise a tasting of 77s. hopefully soon. we have all the stars covered. 

We did a '77 horizontal last summer and I did not think Taylor or Fonseca were that special.  I'd take '85 of either over '77.  Actually, I would like to pair '77 against '80 (total sleeper vintage).  The '77 Dow can run the gamete of great to maybe down the drain.  I have a 3L of '77 Taylor I'd like to open one day.  I drank one before with a friend and our WAG's (along with two more bottles...).  We represented that night!  That's heck of a lot port.   Luckily we were staying the night.

Have you tried the '77 Cockburn?  This was held back to market by Cockburn until a couple of years ago.  All the bottles have been in their cellar.  I haven't tried one yet.

I'd put '70 Niepoort as one of the best of the vintage. 

[Ken Gargett]

12 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

We did a '77 horizontal last summer and I did not think Taylor or Fonseca were that special.  I'd take '85 of either over '77.  Actually, I would like to pair '77 against '80 (total sleeper vintage).  The '77 Dow can run the gamete of great to maybe down the drain.  I have a 3L of '77 Taylor I'd like to open one day.  I drank one before with a friend and our WAG's (along with two more bottles...).  We represented that night!  That's heck of a lot port.   Luckily we were staying the night.

Have you tried the '77 Cockburn?  This was held back to market by Cockburn until a couple of years ago.  All the bottles have been in their cellar.  I haven't tried one yet.

I'd put '70 Niepoort as one of the best of the vintage. 

the problem we both have is corks. the old saying that 'there are no great old wines, just great old bottles', should be that 'there are no great old bottles, just great old corks'. it means you and i might drink the same wine but they can be very different. roll on screwcaps! penfolds have just bottled their latest vintage 'fortified' (can't call it a VP).

one of the more astonishing things i was told (and after hearing it, i asked a number of other producers) was that they believe their ports age quicker in large format (some said they even out after about fifty years). i buy a very occasional magnum but hard to find the right time to open them. 

i've seen most of the 80s. i'd go 77s every time - but we come back to the cork. 

[Lingerfing]

Auctions seem to be a good way to find bottles at a good price. What other methods are there, short of just flying to Portugal?

[BrightonCorgi]

7 hours ago, Lingerfing said:

Auctions seem to be a good way to find bottles at a good price. What other methods are there, short of just flying to Portugal?

The prices in Portugal are not usually anything write home about.  You'll find an amazing selection of Colheitas, but vintage really isn't their thing in Portugal.  More of a special event wine to them.  Tawny and Colheita are mainstays. 

Auctions are generally good.  You need to know what your are doing and the deals aren't as great as they use to be.  Keep in mind shipping costs too.  Provenance becomes a bigger issue as the years go by.  Port is a tough wine, but who really knows how and where a wine was stored?   

My advice on wine and port deals are go to every clearance bin and don't be afraid to make an offer on a bottle you know may have been sitting around for a long time.   Make sure you asking the right person.  Works best at "mom and pop" liquor stores.