Churchill related auction

[KnightsAnole]

I came across this today while perusing some antiques and thought it was interesting. Wondering what it will fetch since a half smoked cigar by Winston Churchill recently got $12k at auction iirc. Not quite the same here but. ? thoughts? Anyone seen one of these before?

this is the description:

A Cuban gift from the cigar-smoking Prime Minister

Incredible ‘La Aroma de Cuba’ cigar personally gifted by Prime Minister Winston Churchill to Welsh Liberal Party politician Roderic Bowen during a luncheon party at 10 Downing Street on December 21, 1954. The cigar approximately measures 6.5? in length and remains sealed in its original cellophane wrapper. Includes Churchill’s original royal blue cigar case, 6.5 x 3.5, with front embossed in gilt: "By Appointment, Cigar Merchants to H.M. the King, T.B. Carlin Ltd., 13, Park Place, St. James’s, London, S.W.1., Established 1925, Regent 1544." In fine, untouched condition; the case bears slight rubbing from use. Accompanied by a letter of provenance from the original recipient, in full: "I confirm that this cigar is one given to me personally, by Sir Winston Churchill at a private luncheon-party at 10 Downing Street, at which I was his guest on 21st. December 1954. A copy of the menu is attached."

Also accompanied by the referenced copy of the menu, as well as information and receipts from the cigar’s initial sale at Sotheby’s in July 1999, which includes an e-mail addressed to the original buyer by a Sotheby’s representative, dated August 19, 2002, reading, in part: "As you are aware we have retained the above property in the Book Department since it was purchased…on 14th July 1999. I have been liaising with our Shipping Department to return the item to you as agreed during our last telephone conversation. However, I have been advised by our Shipping Department today that we will be unable to arrange for [the cigar] to be delivered to you in the United States as there is currently an embargo against all goods of Cuban origin entering the USA. Were we to attempt to ship the cigars to you, they would be seized at Customs and destroyed." Because of the long-standing embargo between Cuba and the United States, Sotheby’s placed the cigar within its inventory for 17 years; the cigar was only recently able to be shipped to America when, on October 14, 2016, the Obama administration announced a new round of executive actions designed to increase trade and travel with Cuba, namely curtailing restrictions on the island's famed rum and cigars. The Cuban cigar was an integral component of Churchill's public image, making this personally gifted example a truly delightful relic of history, which is only further complemented by its steadfast provenance and intimate connection to recent American-Cuban relations. Provenance: Sotheby's, July 1999.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/58572751_winston-churchill

[shlomo]

So....is it for sale or did the owner, who bought it 17 years ago, just receive it now?

How much did it sell for back then?

Thanks for sharing. interesting story.

[KnightsAnole]

The auction house has it now and it’s going to hammer on Jan 10 2018. Starting bid $300, expected value $4-5k according to the auction house description.

[OB1]

Is this something one smokes, or keeps for life?

[KnightsAnole]

i wonder what a half smoked one of these would go for...... hmmmm....

[Habana Mike]

Quiet interesting though it is still illegal to ship Cuban goods to the US. They will need a personal envoy to transport from the UK to the US.

[Ken Gargett]

33 minutes ago, Habana Mike said:

Quiet interesting though it is still illegal to ship Cuban goods to the US. They will need a personal envoy to transport from the UK to the US.

i would think that anything pertaining to churchill is likely to have a very strong market in the UK. suspect unlikely they'll need to worry about it going to the states. but one never knows.

[Habana Mike]

20 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

i would think that anything pertaining to churchill is likely to have a very strong market in the UK. suspect unlikely they'll need to worry about it going to the states. but one never knows.

True, someone outside the US may be who ends up with this. Merely referring to the original post outlining why it is still available:

"Also accompanied by the referenced copy of the menu, as well as information and receipts from the cigar’s initial sale at Sotheby’s in July 1999, which includes an e-mail addressed to the original buyer by a Sotheby’s representative, dated August 19, 2002, reading, in part: "As you are aware we have retained the above property in the Book Department since it was purchased…on 14th July 1999. I have been liaising with our Shipping Department to return the item to you as agreed during our last telephone conversation. However, I have been advised by our Shipping Department today that we will be unable to arrange for [the cigar] to be delivered to you in the United States as there is currently an embargo against all goods of Cuban origin entering the USA. Were we to attempt to ship the cigars to you, they would be seized at Customs and destroyed." Because of the long-standing embargo between Cuba and the United States, Sotheby’s placed the cigar within its inventory for 17 years; the cigar was only recently able to be shipped to America when, on October 14, 2016, the Obama administration announced a new round of executive actions designed to increase trade and travel with Cuba, namely curtailing restrictions on the island's famed rum and cigars."

In other words, per current law the cigar could still be seized and destroyed by US Customs.....except it is from 1954. Pre-embargo. So it could have actually been shipped to the buyer at the time with no issue.

[KnightsAnole]

I did a little more investigating into the auction house and the catalogue.  It’s located in New Hampshire and I also found another one of their auctions. Not entirely sure how this is possible but maybe it is, -because it is a gift from a leader and not a commercial product? Anyway pretty cool, wish I could see the cigars inside....

 

lot description:

:Wooden Trinidad Fundadores cigar box, measuring 8.25 x 4.5 x 3, signed on the top cover in blue felt tip by Fidel Castro. The box contains 24 cigars, and is stamped on each end, "24 Fundadores," with a maker's mark on the bottom, "Habanos S.A., Hecho en Cuba, Totalmente a mano," stamped below, "CLE, FEB 02." The box retains its "Republica de Cuba" cigar warranty seal, which has been re-adhered to the cover. In fine condition. Accompanied by an image of Castro signing the box for noted philanthropist Dr. Eva Haller. From a letter by Haller, in which she describes her meeting with Castro in March 2002 [not included]: 'Castro handed to me the box of cigars. He gave them to me, because I jokingly asked him for it, when others lit a cigar. I told him, that if he signs the box, I will sell it and make lots of money. He thought that was funny. As you may remember we spoke Spanish, and he was very proud of his Hemingway photo with a fish he caught and enjoyed showing around his house. We have some photos of the occasion.' 

Beginning in 1980, Trinidad Fundadores were exclusively produced for Fidel Castro, and until 1998 the only boxes that were allowed to leave Cuba had been gifts to foreign dignitaries. The brand made its official launch as a Cuban export in February 1998, and this box-from Castro's personal stash-was signed and given away only four years later. Cigars were an integral component of Castro's heroic revolutionary image, and as such this signed box is a truly remarkable historical artifac

[shlomo]

Why would they not be able to ship to the US?

[Ken Gargett]

if already there, guess they would not have to. but anyone with the dosh to pick up such items can probably work it out.

[99call]

10 hours ago, KnightsAnole said:

Prime Minister Winston Churchill 

Hhhmm, in the 15yrs I've been looking at actions in the UK I think I've seen nearly 50 half smoked, or unsmoked cigars pertaining to be from Winston Churchill. It seems like there was a legion of people following him around with zip-lock bags

[Fugu]

Am always finding this kind of paraphernalia or more fittingly put 'devotional' objects a slight bit pervy. More of a fetish to me than anything, licking the boots of some - may they be merited or doubtful - persons of history. Said stick or box once chomped or touched by them? Really? - so what?!?

The hardest laugh I am always getting when the personality isn't even becoming visible with the object, like in the cigar case above. When it needs letters, narratives, expertises and certificates to exertedly make a link. My goodness people, wake up! It's a shabby case with an old cigar - the Emperor's new clothes, anyone?

P.S. To the item: Auctioneer's statement "Churchill’s original royal blue cigar case...." is nothing less than misleading advertising, since this is a simple (cardboard or reconstituted leather at best) standard promotional merchant's cigar case of that time. Nothing "original" Churchill or in any way personalised here, AFAI can see.

[canadianbeaver]

4 hours ago, Fugu said:

P.S. To the item: Auctioneer's statement "Churchill’s original royal blue cigar case...." is nothing less than misleading advertising, since this is a simple (cardboard or reconstituted leather at best) standard promotional merchant's cigar case of that time. Nothing "original" Churchill or in any way personalised here, AFAI can see.

^^^ This. Looks like the pack he might get from his cigar shop.

And it is not illegal to bring Cuban Cigars to the US, or sell vintage ones at retail there.

See this fellow in San Francisco last summer.

Area in the back where you can have a seat and smoke with a friend too.

CB

 

[luv2fly]

Pre-embargo cuban cigars have never been illegal.  Before it was legal to bring cubans into the US, one would need to be able to prove they are in fact pre-embargo if asked.  

As far as shipping pre-embargo cigars, it would most likely be on the buyer to provide documentation should the need arise.