First pics of the Rafael Gonzalez 88

[Sunsmoke]

Me... now... ?

Quite like it. 

[encephalization]

8 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

True, I was a bit sloppy in the post. 60,000 total sticks is typical, and 6,000 boxes of 10 has been becoming the most common format for the ERs in recent years, but I was fairly unclear there.

Yes, production numbers for ERs do vary, but it is still the case that 50,000-70,000 is the standard production target for most. Sure, you have the odd Phonecio 35, recent SLRs that have reached 150,000 sticks and the PL Secretos at a whopping 200,000 sticks, albeit a very small vitola for an ER.

So I'll go ahead and say that 88,880 cigars isn't a ton, but for a smaller RG, low-demand marca it's going to put some downward pressure on prices. I think this may be priced similarly to some of the <49 RG recent LCDH releases like the Punch 48 and HdM Elegantes. 

Sorry if I sounded argumentative, that was definitely not my intention.

I completely agree with what you're saying. $195 is probably a bit over what I'd pay but I'm sure I'll try them at some point. At least glad that HSA is releasing something not way over-dimensioned in terms of RG.

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

international price will be $195 USD. 

Ouch. $19.50 a stick is really no joke. They are really squeezing these special productions as hard as they can. For goodness sake, SLR Pacificos, PL Belicosos Extra, Punch Sabrosos, JLS4 can all be had right now at trusted vendors for under $15/stick! What on earth has happened to ER pricing? 

I mean, I guess if the quality is there, but here we are whining about the "price premium" on special production like the Connie A at $14/stick and the quality is certainly there on that!

 

12 minutes ago, encephalization said:

Sorry if I sounded argumentative, that was definitely not my intention.

I completely agree with what you're saying. $195 is probably a bit over what I'd pay but I'm sure I'll try them at some point. At least glad that HSA is releasing something not way over-dimensioned in terms of RG.

Nope, not at all. You rightly pointed out my lack of accuracy.

[Shaunster]

Crazy price!

 

 

[Homer]

249 US$?

I did not read all the replys and the aswer was alreydy there:(

[PigFish]

Just what the market needed and the cigar connoisseur did not, another fat, untested cigar for the speculator market.

When your customers don't want wonderful lonsdales that have survived the test of time, and they are interested in untested Beanie Baby collectibles at 4 times the price, I can only conclude that your average smoker has very little in the way of good taste or good sense!

Enjoy them mates, more for you! Next year, they will be $30.00 a stick, same $0.25 worth of tobacco!

-the Pig

[SCgarman]

10 minutes ago, PigFish said:

Just what the market needed and the cigar connoisseur did not, another fat, untested cigar for the speculator market.

When your customers don't want wonderful lonsdales that have survived the test of time, and they are interested in untested Beanie Baby collectibles at 4 times the price, I can only conclude that your average smoker has very little in the way of good taste or good sense!

Enjoy them mates, more for you! Next year, they will be $30.00 a stick, same $0.25 worth of tobacco!

-the Pig

RG is such a small and obscure marca to make a double bander out of! What are the folks at Habanos really smoking? Apparently the Lonsdales were epic, and the Corona extra was a fine vitola and they axe it.

[MooseAMuffin]

10 hours ago, Sunsmoke said:

Me... now... ?

Quite like it. 

What would you say the flavor profile was?

[PigFish]

5 minutes ago, NYgarman said:

RG is such a small and obscure marca to make a double bander out of! What are the folks at Habanos really smoking? Apparently the Lonsdales were epic, and the Corona extra was a fine vitola and they axe it.

I get it believe me. They were evolutionary cigars... Let me explain.

As smokers became less interested in 'image' and more in the taste of the product, they expanded their experience with the catalog. As we experienced both big and small, mainstream and lesser known, some of us noticed that there were hidden gems in the Habanos line. We bought those cigars as they were not only a monetary value, but had connoisseur value. Few who really knew good tobacco, would spend $10 for a stick when they could actually buy a better one for $4...

Tabacuba knows this full well. Connoisseurs were evolving into these cigars and buying them at a bargain. As smokers could mature and evolve with the older catalog they moved (some of us anyway) from the more popular cigars to the more obscure. They were just better cigars!

You cannot build great quality cigars and sell them for less than the large lousy ones! YOU NEED to close those out, to sell these, or people eventually figure it out. Tabacuba has done this on purpose, just to sell this crap!

And guess what, it works!!!

Thank God I had the good sense to buy a lot of what I like at the time so I am now not forced to 'explore' this type of 'hype.' I doubt that this cigar will ever touch the quality of taste that I will get from a RG Lonsdale. I will likely never know.

I hope for those of you that buy these that they are truly wonderful cigars. At $20 each, you deserve a sublime cigar. I know this because I could find sublime ones at $5.00, 10 short years ago!

When I could buy a cab of 50 Partagas Lonsdales from Bwana a decade ago, there is just no way I am going to part with $200.00 for 10 of these today.

Cheers! -Piggy

[JR Kipling]

Lots of 'investment' bubbles have been blown up in China. Their 'ghost cities' are not doing so well. The Chinese are lookin' at just about anything where they might put their money. Might as well be cigars. I've gotta feeling this might be a big factor in current Cuban marketing strategy. The dedicated, long time Habanos aficionados are dwarfed by that huge market.

Well, at least this cigar is sized right.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Fugu]

Hmm, seems poor PCC must have seriously pissed someone off at HSA, otherwise it is hard to fathom why they are getting fleeced so much harder than other importers....

[PigFish]

16 minutes ago, SenorPerfecto said:

All I can say is, don't knock it til you smoke it.

Same can be said for using cocaine, yet I reject that as well! -Piggy

[Colt45]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

Hmm, seems poor PCC must have seriously pissed someone off at HSA, otherwise it is hard to fathom why they are getting fleeced so much harder than other importers....

It's PCC who/which/that sets the price.

Anywho, it's a cigar I'd be interested in. While the ten count box might make a little easier pill to swallow, the reality is the per cigar price is a bit....  high.....

[rckymtn22]

Way to high of a price, I will probably get a box. Might get more if the price comes down over the year. More interested in the Punch 48's price.

[Fugu]

3 hours ago, Colt45 said:

It's PCC who/which/that sets the price.

It was an ironic comment, Colt, as I dare not insinuate that it's PCC ripping people off by calculating an outrageous markup.... ""

And - your notion is not exactly correct. Importers are indeed setting their final retail price, sure, but only once they know what they have to pay HSA. The final price for Regionals is not seldom set by HSA only on or shortly prior to delivery, when they got all their costs together....

[Colt45]

16 minutes ago, Fugu said:

Importers are indeed setting their final retail price, sure, but only once they know what they have to pay HSA.

I am not privy to what the regional distributors pay or how they negotiate for their regional editions. The simple fact is that it is the regional distributors who set the minimum price for REs. They do foot the bill for their regionals -  are they forced to take part in the program? I do not know. Do they have flexibility with profit margin? I do not know.

Is $19.50 for a glorified corona gorda a little expensive? I've my own thoughts.

[Fugu]

You're quite right - that's why I - and I repeat myself - said it was an ironic, no - more precisely - it was a sarcastic comment...

(as - like you, I assume, although there may be slightly different conditons for different clients, they will have to pay 'roughly' the same for cigars as do other importers). Ahh, always tough if one has to explain his ...

[Colt45]

17 minutes ago, Fugu said:

Ahh, always tough if one has to explain his ...

I infer that you are implying I'm being antagonistic!

No explanation needed - my perspective is that we're making conversation - no different than if we were all together having a few cigars and perhaps a few drinks.

So, if I'm able, tomorrow I will smoke an '09 RG CE - a box given to me by a good friend - no, mate. To date each has been all I can ask from a cigar.

Khaaaan Fuguuuu!

Cheers Homie!

[Wertman]

Great question rcky brings up.   I wonder if the new punch 48 would be the better of the the two cigars.  Would be interested in some one doing a comparison smoke this weekend before these go on sale.

[santela]

Love the format, probably will get a couple boxes if under $150.

 

Edit: Didn't read all replies and just realized it's $195. Can't really justify it.

[Lotusguy]

Suddenly buying RACF at $500 on the secondary market doesn't seem so crazy anymore, does it?

I'll trade for a single, just so I can try it, but I'm most likely going to pass on a box purchase. Too bad, since I am a big RG fan.

[Notsocleaver]

1 hour ago, Lotusguy said:

Suddenly buying RACF at $500 on the secondary market doesn't seem so crazy anymore, does it?

I'll trade for a single, just so I can try it, but I'm most likely going to pass on a box purchase. Too bad, since I am a big RG fan.

It makes the secondary market prices on a lot of things seem sane. Cant see buying these over Dantes, etc.

[PigFish]

1 hour ago, SenorPerfecto said:

Oh, Piggy, you will be first at the trough if it gets a "95 and loads of ageing potential" in the video review.

I know you jest of course, but I do call 'em like I see 'em mate! I just won't pay for 'em. At $8 I would have actually considered buying a box. At $20 (statistically from a smoker's perspective) it is a worse gamble than cigars I already know. I would be better off buying more Monte Esps. I don't really hold secondary market perspectives. That is for speculators and I am a smoker!

Now if you pop for a box and want to send me one, well, I will give it an honest review! If it is worth $20 a stick from a smoking perspective I will absolutely say it. I won't pan a cigar based on preconceived notions. I will judge it on taste and then make a value assessment.

What I won't do is rail against Tabacuba et al on one day and then support them in the cause of killing traditional cigars for untested overpriced ones. In that way, I am no hypocrite! I am not going to pay the bastards to kill off good cigars for this. No way!

My last comment will be with regard to the all or nothing proposition. There are always room for new cigars (MHO). If folks want to make, overcharge and consumers want to buy this stuff, who am I to say, "nuts?" I don't really care. I can always say no. Yet this has gone hand in hand with destroying venerable vitolas and we are told they did not sell. Bolivar CE, Partagas PC... I don't believe it. You cannot sell expensive crap, when inexpensive delights exist in the same catalog.

Cheers! -Ray

[planetary]

The vitola is interesting enough to suggest a modest premium... but to justify the given price, the quality has to be superb and frankly the cigar has to wildly outperform the reputation of its marca. 

Waiting for reviews.

 

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, PigFish said:

I know you jest of course, but I do call 'em like I see 'em mate! I just won't pay for 'em. At $8 I would have actually considered buying a box.

I would as well, just to get a shot at a potential quality RG in a cool vitola.

I have no problem spending even $10 for RA Superiores or HU RR in a 10 box from time to time, but what am I going to get for my $20 with these RGs? Will they deliver twice the experience of a quality regular production or LCDH release? Can they match a 2016 Punch Punch or Boli Tubos No. 1? I can pick up many of the last decade's Asia ERs for $15 or less, and for $20 I can almost pick up Esplendidos, definitely Lanceros and CE or Piramides. I believe the 2016 ELs are around that low $20s price point, and two of those are fatties and the Monte Dantes is no small cigar either. But at least the ELs claim aged wrapper...we have no idea what's in these ERs.

I think $20 per stick is just out of line for one of the dozen annual ERs that are now usually released very late, particularly for a low-demand marca in a medium-sized vitola with standard-plus ER production numbers that will be easy to obtain for most of the world's popular vendors. If there are that many people with money to burn and/or collectors then good on them, and in fact they've perhaps priced it too low. I would be very cautious if I were PCC as most of the Asia Pacific ERs since 2008 tend to hang around for years at even much lower prices than this with the lone exception of the Dip Bushido which was a special case IMO.

As pointed out by @Lotusguy, for about the same price, I'm springing for the RACF which is a known winner, has age and can still be found if one looks. BTW, I purchased a box of RACF 25s in Oct 09 for a little over $200, or about $9/stick.  Even with inflation, that's $10/stick in 2017 dollars. A 100% increase in 8 years for a less desired marca? 

Also, I know some here are pinning the pricing level squarely on PCC but since we'll never know what price HSA is charging PCC I don't think we can be sure PCC gets all the blame. I'm sure Ray will never accept that HSA is innocent in this one.