No one would really buy Fake cigars in Cuba....would they?

[El Presidente]

No one would really buy fake cigars in Cuba....would they?

The below article is a lighthearted way of depicting how it happens. 

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/travel/2017/02/26/A-funny-thing-happened-on-my-hunt-for-a-Cuban-cigar1

The fake business in Cuba is not really one business model. It is about 5 different business models of which the above is the most basic. 

from the tout selling to  tourists (who have no idea) all the way to the large scale chinchala's with 5-8 rollers (all x factory and talented) doing the latest of specialties.  it would be an interesting to know the numbers of real V fake cigars sold to tourists in Cuba. 

 

[garnett]

I have a friend who likes nothing better than a fake box of Cohiba IV he has plenty of money and plenty of good cigars but he loves a fake Cohiba IV.

[gweilgi]

A question of law/morality/philosophy/semantics:

if a cigar is sold as genuine Cuban and it is rolled in Cuba by Cubans using Cuban tobacco ... is it a fake?

Supplementary questions:

Should such activity not be actively encouraged by visitors as the first tender shoots of independent entrepreneurial spirit that will help the island thrive post-Castro?

Would it be more appropriate to refer to such cigars as "unlicensed seconds"?

[gweilgi]

24 minutes ago, garnett said:

I have a friend who likes nothing better than a fake box of Cohiba IV he has plenty of money and plenty of good cigars but he loves a fake Cohiba IV.

The only good fake Cohiba is the fake Cohiba that comes in a classy glass-top box.

[El Presidente]

23 minutes ago, gweilgi said:

A question of law/morality/philosophy/semantics:

if a cigar is sold as genuine Cuban and it is rolled in Cuba by Cubans using Cuban tobacco ... is it a fake?

Supplementary questions:

Should such activity not be actively encouraged by visitors as the first tender shoots of independent entrepreneurial spirit that will help the island thrive post-Castro?

Would it be more appropriate to refer to such cigars as "unlicensed seconds"?

if a  cigar is misrepresented then it is indeed fake. "Amigo, I have a box of  cuban rolled piramides" is very different to "Amigo i have a box of Montecristo Number 2"

first  tender shoots? It has been happening since forever 

 

[gweilgi]

11 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

if a  cigar is misrepresented then it is indeed fake. "Amigo, I have a box of  cuban rolled piramides" is very different to "Amigo i have a box of Montecristo Number 2"

Largely correct, of course, and I sit corrected.  

I expect that the number of cigars peddled on the streets that are made with unofficially acquired genuine bands and boxes and rolled using the correct tobacco is really rather small.  My query was really rooted in a similar debate ongoing in the vintage car world: when is a vintage Ferrari a vintage Ferrari?  What percentage of parts may it contain that are refabricated or sourced from other vintage Ferraris before one has to say "this is not genuine vintage anymore"?

 

11 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

first  tender shoots? It has been happening since forever 

 

Heh.  True, dat.  

[MrGlass]

52 minutes ago, gweilgi said:

 What percentage of parts may it contain that are refabricated or sourced from other vintage Ferraris before one has to say "this is not genuine vintage anymore"?

That question is the Ship of Theseus paradox.

[Duffer]

Thanks for the article Rob.  After reading it I have but one question:  does the "gold chain" have a website?  Sounds like a bargain too good to pass up!

[El Presidente]

In my experience, I try to avoid people with thick gold chains and assorted gold bling.  

they are either rappers, gangsters or greek accountants like my accountant Artie. 

Happy birthday Artie 

[David88]

I think that people who do not have an interest in cigars vastly underestimate the price of a box. So when they are in Cuba they want to pay what they think it is worth. When I was in Cuba last summer I spoke to a number of people who wanted cigars and had no idea that the prices were regulated across the island. A few people showed me the boxes they had bought from the guy who had a sister/brother/cousin/second aunt twice removed/guy who sorted out their verruca who worked at the factory. They were obviously fake but they seemed happy with what they had for the price they paid.

[rhcolbert]

WTF arrcin fakes!? From the ones in Cuba to the glass top boxes peddled in Mexico, I've always been curious about where they are made, where does the "tobacco" come from, etc?

i found the National Geographic expose years back on cocaine production fascinating and a must see for anyone who ever thought drugs were ok recreationally.  I feel having the same insight into the fake cigar production would have the same effect 

[BrightonCorgi]

Had a fake box of Esplendidos a friend brought back from Cuba.  Real box and bands, but the box was warped and many of the cigars were tight.  Had that Cuban twang, but I ended up donating to the Troops.

All cigars rolled in Cuba are Cuban cigars.  Only cigars rolled by Habanos are "Habanos"....  Custom rolled cigars are simply "Cuban Cigars".

[Philc2001]

Fantastic FauxHibas...

[LGC]

These aren't fakes... they're all "custom rolls"

[Colt45]

15 hours ago, gweilgi said:

A question of law/morality/philosophy/semantics:

if a cigar is sold as genuine Cuban and it is rolled in Cuba by Cubans using Cuban tobacco ... is it a fake?

Supplementary questions:

Should such activity not be actively encouraged by visitors as the first tender shoots of independent entrepreneurial spirit that will help the island thrive post-Castro?

Would it be more appropriate to refer to such cigars as "unlicensed seconds"?

As already mentioned, promoting cigars as something they really aren't  - illegitimate. There's also legitimate, factory produced cigars that find their way out the back door - are stolen cigars legit? I guess we also have to consider how the tobacco used in cigars not promoted as legit Habanos is acquired....

[Guest photorob]

12 hours ago, David88 said:

I think that people who do not have an interest in cigars vastly underestimate the price of a box. So when they are in Cuba they want to pay what they think it is worth. When I was in Cuba last summer I spoke to a number of people who wanted cigars and had no idea that the prices were regulated across the island. A few people showed me the boxes they had bought from the guy who had a sister/brother/cousin/second aunt twice removed/guy who sorted out their verruca who worked at the factory. They were obviously fake but they seemed happy with what they had for the price they paid.

THIS! When I was down in Havana last year, a few guys shopping at the LCDH stirred up conversation with me. They mentioned how great the selection was but how "incredibly expensive" the sticks were. Little did they know.

I think a lot of tourists who are not into cigars have the pipe dream of spending under $100 on a dress box of Cohibas (remember, for these people it's a souvenir). And they do find what they are looking for on the streets and beaches. And they get a necklace for free usually 

[Philc2001]

13 hours ago, rhcolbert said:

WTF arrcin fakes!? From the ones in Cuba to the glass top boxes peddled in Mexico, I've always been curious about where they are made, where does the "tobacco" come from, etc?

i found the National Geographic expose years back on cocaine production fascinating and a must see for anyone who ever thought drugs were ok recreationally.  I feel having the same insight into the fake cigar production would have the same effect 

I've heard of street cigars having banana leaves, oregano, and perhaps even paper as fillers. I've had a fair share of street bought fakes brought back by friends who are Cuban nationals that know I'm a cigar smoker. Of course, Esplendidos and Monte #2 are two of the most counterfeited, and I've had both. A couple of them were just ok, passable as tobacco, but a few were truly quality tobacco and tasted every bit as good as the real deal, even better. I'm not a big fan of Cohiba, I've tried several times to like them, but they just have a grassy, dry, flavor I don't enjoy. However, these few fakes were outstanding cigars. For the price they paid, I would buy bundles if I could. 

[dgixxer252525]

So in Tampa some scammers are going to Cuba and buying fakes on purpose to bring them home and sell them for huge profits. 

[PlatypusMaximus]

Fantastic FauxHibas...

The Barber Pole 'hibas look amazing!! Who doesn't love chocolate and banana?!?! Yum!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[JC67]

15 years ago I picked up qn amazing box of Partagas Lusis of this angry 6'7 Cuban guy

It was an interesting experience

I was approached on the street and agreed to have a look. I was  taken into a neighbourhood reminiscent of old Everleyn st  in Redfern. walked through one dingey house through a corridor  held together by  tape into another dilapidated house where i was confronted with a group of cuban guys 

at this  point i was wondering if i would leave with my wallet

 they showed me a box of  Cohibas  and a box of amazing looking Lusitanias

I chose the Cohibas

paid my 10 USD and off i went

Upon  lighting the Cohiba i immediately realised that they were fake.

I was so annoyed with  myself for not choosing the Parties that I headed back immediatley to get my money back, through the dingey  door and the corridor held together by tape and back into the room where the mood was not so great when I told them that I wanted to return the box 

Picture a room of big black sweaty cranky guys and one guy in my face telling me basically that I was pushing my luck

i stood my ground with this guy and told him I want the partags and I would give him an extra 5 USD and continued with my stance

eventually he agreed and I walked off with the most beautiful box of Lusis for 15 USD! (My body and wallet intact)

they were definately authentic and they accompanied me on my 8 week journey through Cuba

 

 

 

[gweilgi]

21 hours ago, David88 said:

I think that people who do not have an interest in cigars vastly underestimate the price of a box. So when they are in Cuba they want to pay what they think it is worth. When I was in Cuba last summer I spoke to a number of people who wanted cigars and had no idea that the prices were regulated across the island. A few people showed me the boxes they had bought from the guy who had a sister/brother/cousin/second aunt twice removed/guy who sorted out their verruca who worked at the factory. They were obviously fake but they seemed happy with what they had for the price they paid.

Which is absolutely fine, IMO.  Whether it is food, drink or cigars, how much we enjoy it and how highly we rate it is every bit as dependent on what happens in our heads as our taste buds.  If they are happy and carefree wandering around in the Cuban sunshine puffing on their backstreet smoke secure in the knowledge that they have bagged themselves a bargain, they are going to enjoy the fakes every bit as much as the real thing.  I'd be loath to disabuse them and ruin their experience ...

[Ken Gargett]

fakes in cuba are a heap of fun.

rob, on our first few trips, we bought a number of fakes - sometimes deliberately, sometimes possibly not.

i remember one trip when a mate and i were in the back room at partagas with hamlet, just getting into the third bottle of havana club and smoking some of hamlet's finest (still can't get over how he always had to pour some rum on the ground before we could drink from the bottle). door opens and a tourist walks in, uninvited. a very tall canadian, quite well dressed and obviously not short of a quid (please do not think this is in any way an anti-canadian post - as i have often said, i love the sealbashers). anyway, he looks at us and asks what is this place.

hamlet explains that basically it is an off limits area but would he like to join us for a drink and a cigar. the bloke looks at us like he has come across a child smuggling operation. "how come the cigars here are so expensive?" and this probably 15 years ago when they were anything but expensive.

we ask what he means.

"i can get them on the street for a fraction of these prices".

we explain that yes, he can do that but he is buying fakes.

no way! he insists that his sources are real (apparently, they told him so). and he ain't going to be ripped off buying at full retail.

we wish him the best of luck. he explains to us what idiots we are not buying on the streets. never saw him again.

another time, i'd been visiting hamlet and had just left the factory and was heading back to the hotel. big cuban guy, supposedly almost no english, starts offering me "genuine, real, from the factory, my cousin's sister etc etc". i keep politely declining. he is insistent. finally, i try a new tack and tell him i am a mate of hamlet's. had no idea if that would work.

he takes one look and stops and says in perfect english, 'you're a buddy of hamlet's? sorry about that. please forgive us if we have hassled you". i'd see him every day and not once did he ever try and sell me anything again. we'd always stop for a chat. always meant to ask him if he sold anything to a tall canadian.

 

[David88]

2 hours ago, gweilgi said:

Which is absolutely fine, IMO.  Whether it is food, drink or cigars, how much we enjoy it and how highly we rate it is every bit as dependent on what happens in our heads as our taste buds.  If they are happy and carefree wandering around in the Cuban sunshine puffing on their backstreet smoke secure in the knowledge that they have bagged themselves a bargain, they are going to enjoy the fakes every bit as much as the real thing.  I'd be loath to disabuse them and ruin their experience ...

Of course it's fine. I didn't mention that those boxes shouldn't have glass top lids. They wanted a souvenir and were happy with it so who am I to spoil that for them.

I quite liked the stories from the people selling fake boxes, they certainly do try to be convincing! 

[BellevilleMXZ]

I would buy some......cheap.......and know what they are......part of the Cuba experience???

 

[stinkhead]

35 minutes ago, BellevilleMXZ said:

I would buy some......cheap.......and know what they are......part of the Cuba experience???

 

I was literally just going to say that!! I love an adventure and is probably worth the story alone.