EL Laguito Factory Code Mystery

[subport]

47 minutes ago, Bohn007 said:

I understood why, in the case of Behike why they rolled them elsewhere and boxes them at El Laguito due to a shortage of rollers but why roll at El Laguito and box elsewhere? Because of a shortage of boxes?

Just because.

Or Cuba being cuba.

1 hour ago, zeedubbya said:

 

 

Let me further explain how I came up with the idea of SOM being the same factory as RAE. If you do a little research you'll find certain Marcas are produced at certain factories as @Fugu said above mother factories.  The 4 big ones are Francisco Pérez Germán (Partagas), Jose Marti (H.Upmann), El Laguito (Cohiba), and Miguel Fernandes Roig (La Corona).  The codes for these 4 are generally able to be deciphered because of what's produced there.  For example Partagas produces nearly (if not) all La Gloria Cubana and Bolivar (ETP).  La Corona produces nearly (if not) all San Cristobal and Por Larranaga--TOS.  El Laguito obviously you know this one as Cohiba, however I have heard a lot of Partagas are being rolled there now which would support why we've seen some E2 and D4 with AMO code.  H Upmann is H Upmann--a large portion of Upmann will have the MEG code.  I recall @Bohn007 just commented on Connie A with MEG code.  

However outside these 4 it gets a little murky.  The provincial factor of Pinar Del Rio (Francisco Donantien) supposedly produces Vegueros and Trinidad.  So by deduction and looking at box code lists I would say this factory is the SLE code we have see here lately.  As for SOM as I have looked over a lot of the code lists I have and other people's posts of box codes I believe it to be the same as RAE because of the similar cigars being rolled there.  In mid 2015 you see cigars like HDM San Juan, Montecristo 2, Punch Punch, Mag56, Siglo 2 as RAE.  Then later in 2015 and early 2016 you see same Marca and Vitola as SOM code.  I don't believe it would be coincidental that in July 2015 RAE would be code for SAN Juan 10 boxes then in SEP15 SOM is the code.  For what it's worth I have stated a number of times my favorite code ever is RAE MAR-JUL 15.  There was some magic coming out of that factory during this time.  And so I believe (mainly under educated assumption) that RAE and SOM are the other factory in Havana--El Rey Del Mundo or I believe it was once called and maybe still is Carlos Balino?  

If anyone wants to add or refute this by all means please do.  I will state again--box code chasing is merely a hobby.  I think some knowledge can be gained by trying to understand this a bit but it's not by any means an exact science.  And HSA wants to keep it that way.  Could they be running a stamp for box codes from Upmann to Laguito once a month to throw people off--absolutely.  Is it likely this organized.  No.  

One more thing I want to add here.  With the premium leaf shortage I would guess they would roll the Phoenicias wherever they could find the right leaf.  I believe El Laguito used up a lot of premium leaf stores for the 50th anniversary of Cohiba and this is why we saw a Cohiba shortage.  I believe this could also contribute to your SOM coded Phoenicia. I could see most likely situation being El Laguito didn't have the 5 year old leaf but SOM factory did so they just rolled them there (under potential pressure from Phoenicia Trading to get them done) instead?  

Whew.  That was a lot....

Opinions welcomed.  

Wow, that is well put! I clearly see the logic behind your conception. 

 

[Bohn007]

5 hours ago, zeedubbya said:

Funny you mention this.  

 

The boxes were custom made for this special release. The boxes being available in one factory and not the other wouldn't make sense

[Bohn007]

4 hours ago, subport said:

Just because.

Or Cuba being cuba.

Wow, that is well put! I clearly see the logic behind your conception. 

 

According to the details for this release, the leaves were aged for 5 years so the would not have competed for the same leaf used for the 50th Anniversary Cohiba

[zeedubbya]

2 minutes ago, Hutch said:

ZW...well layed out and logical. Makes sense too  RAE in '15 is also a favorite of mine, so I expect my CoRos from SOM will be a treat. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Thank you Hutch--means a lot coming from you.  Hard to explain all that in a few sentences.  Felt like a less intelligent version of @PigFish there for a minute?  

And I would like to address the LAU comment made in the shoutbox.  I too originally supposed LAU was the new RAE and still think it could be possible, but I just don't see nearly as much overlap of LAU with RAE.  Who really knows?  Someone does for sure!  It will be interesting to see Robs codes of 2016. I am certain TOS will take it by a landslide like EML last year.

[alloy]

I just bought some five packs of Siglo V's. The code is SGA Sep 2015. Is SGA El Laguito?

[BEVOSREVENGE]

17 hours ago, Bohn007 said:

I am curious to see if anyone have the AMO box code with the same month/year as the SOM

I have AMO JUN 16 Esplendidos and SOM JUN 16 Du Prince.

9 hours ago, TomF said:

I have a box of Monte 2's from SOM DIC 15.

SOM on this thread so far: RA, Partagas, Cohiba, PL, Montecristo...

I have Mag 56 LE (SOM DIC 2015 - 2 boxes), RACA LE (SOM DIC 2015 - 3 boxes), and Du Prince (SOM FEB 16 and SOM JUN 16).

[Bohn007]

So I wrote the president of Phoenicio Trading to get the answer. Not sure if he will write back but stay tuned. In the meantime, I am all ears because I have a hard time accepting that they just ran out of boxes. 

[subport]

6 hours ago, Bohn007 said:

So I wrote the president of Phoenicio Trading to get the answer. Not sure if he will write back but stay tuned. In the meantime, I am all ears because I have a hard time accepting that they just ran out of boxes. 

Please dont take it offensive. I just feelyou really want this box and code to be El Laguito. But does it really matter? Isnt the taste of a cigar what matters at the end of the day? I think it does. At least for me...no matter where is it coming from. Thats why I dont buy codes. I buy cigars whatever the stamp is on that box. 

[Bohn007]

1 hour ago, subport said:

Please dont take it offensive. I just feelyou really want this box and code to be El Laguito. But does it really matter? Isnt the taste of a cigar what matters at the end of the day? I think it does. At least for me...no matter where is it coming from. Thats why I dont buy codes. I buy cigars whatever the stamp is on that box. 

No offense taken but actually I could care less where they were made in the end. I completely agree that a good cigar or crap is still just that no matter where it comes from. Still though, when we order future cigar boxes, it's helpful to know which factory they originated from because, as we all know, some factories tend to produce consistently better cigars than other facotories of the same marca and vitola. When we all see that a stick from TOS, AMO or LUB, we assume it's there is a chance that the production quality is better. Beyond that, and more importantly, it's a simple who-done-it mystery which is entertaining to discuss and investigate. 

[subport]

1 hour ago, Bohn007 said:

No offense taken but actually I could care less where they were made in the end. I completely agree that a good cigar or crap is still just that no matter where it comes from. Still though, when we order future cigar boxes, it's helpful to know which factory they originated from because, as we all know, some factories tend to produce consistently better cigars than other facotories of the same marca and vitola. When we all see that a stick from TOS, AMO or LUB, we assume it's there is a chance that the production quality is better. Beyond that, and more importantly, it's a simple who-done-it mystery which is entertaining to discuss and investigate. 

Ok, understandable and got your point. It applies if you are buying out of your own because our host does the same thing for us.

we might end up with this mystery as we havestarted. No closer to the truth just stamp it as cuba hahaha

[Fugu]

While personally I couldn't care less where they have been made/packed, I'd be keen to hear what explanation the distributor will come up with. At least it seems false advertising applying... Guess it will be some fun read.....

So, good move there Bohn!

[zeedubbya]

Something just hit me like a ton of bricks on this.  Does anyone have any boxes of RYJ Wide Churchills 25 with box code SOM?  I recall RYJ Wides as being one of the cigars I saw an overlap with RAE and SOM.  I think.  It makes sense that El Laguito wouldn't have the boxes for a Monteseco cigar but a factory where RYJ Wides were rolled would.  Yes yes I know RYJ Wides are a dress box and the RA Phoenicia are a varnished SBN, but it would make the most sense to me that the box could be made elsewhere and sent over to El Laguito for boxing.  This is my choice for the reason your cigars are in a SOM stamped box.  Either the bottom  of a RYJ Wide box was used or the entire box was made at another factory. 

[clutch5150]

On 11/16/2016 at 8:25 AM, zeedubbya said:

Funny you mention this.  

 

My stay a few months ago in Cuba I was told the Behike's were in shortage due to the "glue" which I then had to ask what this meant, it was what we call the binder.  Funny they call it glue.  I heard this from 2 sources, one of them Carlos Robaina as well.

[Bohn007]

Well I wrote both Mohamed Zeidan, the President of Phonicia T.A.A. and George Matter, who sits on the Board of Directors. The first time I tried to write the company, I used their online inquiry form and it got kicked back as the e-mail address, to which it was routed to was no longer being used. However, both Mohamed Zeidan and George Matter got my e-mails as I received confirmation receipt from Outlook when they read the e-mail. It's been a day and a half now and no reply. Not even a "We will have someone reach out to you.". This might be a mystery unsolved. 

[GasGuy82]

My honest opinion is somebody wrote a narrative and another person handled production. AMO is El Laguito, SOM is somewhere else. 99.9999% of people wouldn't know let alone notice what you did and frankly, maybe 1 or 2 people involved in production did. If I remember correctly, there was quite a period of time where nothing came out of El Laguito for one theorized reason or another. I think it is weird to begin with that EL would roll an RA or a regional. Have we ever seen either?

[Bohn007]

7 hours ago, GasGuy82 said:

My honest opinion is somebody wrote a narrative and another person handled production. AMO is El Laguito, SOM is somewhere else. 99.9999% of people wouldn't know let alone notice what you did and frankly, maybe 1 or 2 people involved in production did. If I remember correctly, there was quite a period of time where nothing came out of El Laguito for one theorized reason or another. I think it is weird to begin with that EL would roll an RA or a regional. Have we ever seen either?

While I agree that it would be unusual, considering Phoenicia T.A.A. Is the largest distributor of Habanos, they certainly have the pull to get something special. Not sure if I can agree that it was simply a miscommunication between marketing and production, IMHO. I think the suggestion that the boxes might have come from somewhere else is a more likely scenario. Either way, in time, I am confident that it will be a nice smoke. As I stated earlier, it does not matter to me where they were made. Just curious as to what the story might be. Still waiting for a reply from Phoenicia though. No response, just listening to crickets in Chicago. 

[Bohn007]

25 minutes ago, Hutch said:

Seriously ? What is their distribution area ? Is there a list somewhere of relative sales volume ? That would be an interesting read. My guess would have been the Pacific Region.     TIA !

I don't know if such a list exists but this was what I was told by our dear friend Pigfish. Their distribution area is huge covering the entire continent of Africa and parts of the Middle East and Greece so it makes sense. 

[avaldes]

Not sure anyone cares anymore, but Robbie just posted a pic from the La Corona factory where they were applying the SOM factory code.

 

Edit....I read that wrong...it was TOS not SOM!

[Bohn007]

7 minutes ago, avaldes said:

Not sure anyone cares anymore, but Robbie just posted a pic from the La Corona factory where they were applying the SOM factory code.

I didn't see the pic but that is helpful. Now the question is why? Never probably will know the REAL story because Phoenicia is not responding to my questions about it. Thank you for the insight though. 

[Bohn007]

Just now, Hutch said:

Ummmm...it was TOS....held upside down, but no M regardless

Triple post. I saw your TOS picture but assumed he was referring to another picture. Mystery is now less solved. 

[avaldes]

Wow, I have reverse letter dyslexia!!  Correct it is TOS!

[Bohn007]

Here is the answer. Right from Phoenicia, T.A.A.

Dear Mr. Bohn

Thank you for your email.

You are right about the box codes issue, but due to big quantity of the Phoenicio 35 production was assigned to other factories in Santa Clara in addition to El Laguito where the main production took place.

Hope that this answered your enquiry.

Kind Regards

Hisham Lotfi

Commercial Manager

Phoenicia T.A.A. Cyprus LTD

[Benzopyrene]

I know I'm digging up an old thread, but I do find this interesting. SOM as seems to have been determined is not the el lagito code for this time. Has anyone found a different code on these boxes? As most regional productions take place at one factory and only seem to vary in code by date of a month or two. The video posted on the first page seems to suggest that most but not all will be rolled at el lagito ( this is quite possibly an overstatement), this seems to back up what was said in the response email. Ultimately it doesn't really matter, but I do find it curious. Another note I did not see mentioned here was that during this time the El Lagito factory was undergoing a major renovation, and most of the factory was closed down. ( anybody else remember this) If anyone really wants to take this further I know that some of you regulars to Havana know people that work at El Lagito. Id love to see what they say about rolling regionals, as Im not familiar with other regionals being rolled there. Anyway, Cheers!

[JohnnyO]

At El Laguito, Siglo and Behike production has come to a stop recently. No wrappers for those lines. Production will shift to Partagas and other cigars that use darker wrappers. Will those cigars be boxed there or at other factories? If they are boxed elsewhere would they use a EL code or a code for the secondary factory? See the problem? "?Hey boss man, do we put the El Laguito stamp on these Piramides Extras or the Don Cojones factory stamp?" John

[GasGuy82]

Has anyone ever seen a regional (ER) cigar with an EL box code, ever?