our cricketers

[Ken Gargett]

Now mitch marsh may go on to score 200 tomorrow, and fingers crossed he does (as much chance as me dating supermodels I suspect, but hope springs). Meanwhile, in nearly 20 tests, I think, he boasts a bowling average of high 30s and a batting average of low 20s. he has not scored one ton, nor has he taken one set of five wickets. Someone once said that an allrounder really needed to be able to hold his spot as at least either a batsman or bowler. He does neither. What is going on?

Hard to imagine that he could have photos of the selectors so bad that he keeps his spot.

Davey Warner! Granted he can bat fabulously but the team has to last a day and a half to save the match. do you really need to score a run a ball? And there is no excuse on this planet for getting run out in these circumstances. The chances of getting these runs are about the same as mitch march getting his double ton, so don’t get out.

Did cricketers used to be more intelligent? That is how I remember things but perhaps I was young and foolish.

[westg]

We are taking the same 12 to Hobart Ken , already been announce so Mitch will be there ...I was thinking the same today looking at his stats ....Warner saw how much work that little man had to do and just trotted through ....that was an amazing piece of fielding ...that said I agree why even risk taking that single ...he may be a future captain ..did cricketers used to be more intelligent....absolutely so did our selectors   

[JohnS]

The problem with the Australian team is that it is unbalanced. This didn't matter last season when they were playing sides with weaker bowling attacks such as the West Indies and New Zealand to a much lesser extent, but against quality spin and swing/movement bowling you have guys in our team that aren't up to it. As David Warner said in an interview recently, it's hard when the top order get runs and the middle order doesn't go on with it. When Adam Voges was getting big scores last season this problem was 'papered over' but no international side can continue with Mitchell Marsh and Peter Nevill at Nos 6 and 7 averaging in the low-20's an innings. It's highly unlikely that Mitchell Marsh will score a 50 this season, and the same may go for Peter Nevill. And if Adam Voges doesn't get a considerable score too soon, his test career will come to an end. At test level you must take multiple wickets (i.e. 5 wickets in an innings) or score a fifty at least once every 3 innings.

Therefore, the idea of taking the same eleven to Hobart is ludicrous to me. The problem of poor fielding/catching in the recent Sri Lankan series has come to the fore again, and in this test, if the Australians had taken their chances they would be chasing 150 runs less, they would have been in the game. I question some of the incumbents too, Joe Mennie before Jackson Bird or Chadd Sayers is unjustifiable in my opinion based on form. Personally, I like Peter Nevill and I hope he finds runs soon...do we need a return to Matthew Wade? (Perhaps not). Mitchell Marsh cannot hold down the no.6 spot any longer, he has to move on. I'd be so seriously tempted to give George Bailey a last chance at test level, I would think he'd grab it too and make a significant contribution to this team.

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, JohnS said:

The problem with the Australian team is that it is unbalanced. This didn't matter last season when they were playing sides with weaker bowling attacks such as the West Indies and New Zealand to a much lesser extent, but against quality spin and swing/movement bowling you have guys in our team that aren't up to it. As David Warner said in an interview recently, it's hard when the top order get runs and the middle order doesn't go on with it. When Adam Voges was getting big scores last season this problem was 'papered over' but no international side can continue with Mitchell Marsh and Peter Nevill at Nos 6 and 7 averaging in the low-20's an innings. It's highly unlikely that Mitchell Marsh will score a 50 this season, and the same may go for Peter Nevill. And if Adam Voges doesn't get a considerable score too soon, his test career will come to an end. At test level you must take multiple wickets (i.e. 5 wickets in an innings) or score a fifty at least once every 3 innings.

Therefore, the idea of taking the same eleven to Hobart is ludicrous to me. The problem of poor fielding/catching in the recent Sri Lankan series has come to the fore again, and in this test, if the Australians had taken their chances they would be chasing 150 runs less, they would have been in the game. I question some of the incumbents too, Joe Mennie before Jackson Bird or Chadd Sayers is unjustifiable in my opinion based on form. Personally, I like Peter Nevill and I hope he finds runs soon...do we need a return to Matthew Wade? (Perhaps not). Mitchell Marsh cannot hold down the no.6 spot any longer, he has to move on. I'd be so seriously tempted to give George Bailey a last chance at test level, I would think he'd grab it too and make a significant contribution to this team.

good thoughts john.

the problem with bailey is that they are determined to find an allrounder (not easy). and i suspect that they already have too many old blokes. if we return to wade, there should be blood in the streets. he's not that bad but it would be a step back.

the number of quicks who have bowled for australia in recent years is staggering. and an absolute indictment on the selectors and the failure of the endless rotation and the inability of being able to keep them fit.

why are some players given so many chances and others dumped after the slightest hiccup. they have kept mitch for  ridiculous time and shaun has been shoehorned back in every time he gets 20 - is it the selectors doing their old mate geoff a favour? how the hell did either usman or burns, who both did very well last year, not get a better chance? they were establishing themselves and then out. how does that help continuity or confidence?

for me, the rot starts with the selectors. rod marsh was a very good keeper and obviously has some ability as a coach but he has proved utterly inept as a selector. and either those around him do not get a say or won't stand up to him.

[Ken Gargett]

just saw similar grumblings on a cricket site. they point out that march is actually averaging 21 with the bat and 54 with the ball this year. they have listed the alternatives. interesting point re burns starting his tests at 6. had forgotten that. his average of 42 is still over that of shaun. was staggered to learn that mitch has now played as many tests as shaun.

i gather one theory for keeping mitch is that they are scared starc will break down mid test. so our selectors have a bloke in the team in case someone else gets injured? and that bloke does nothing anyway. insane.

 

The Favourites

1. Joe Burns (27 years old) – 872 Test runs at an average of 42
Burns is unlucky not to be opening in the Test team after a wonderful season last summer. He started his Test career at six and could return there if Australia decide to focus on specialist batsmen.

2. Marcus Stoinis (27 years old) – 2193 runs at 38, plus 27 wickets at 47 in first-class cricket
Stoinis has blossomed as a batsman over the past two years, offering Victoria a steady presence at first drop. He missed out with the bat in his one Shield innings so far this summer but underlined his improving skills with the ball yesterday, taking 2-31 as Victoria beat Queensland.

3. Kurtis Patterson (23 years old) – 2098 runs at 43 in first-class cricket
The NSW stroke maker has had a stunning 12 months of first-class cricket, making 1210 runs at 60 in that period. He is a well-rounded batsman who thrives against pace bowling but is also comfortable against spin.

4. Peter Handscomb (25 years old) – 3639 runs at 39 in first-class cricket
The wicketkeeper-turned-specialist batsman has flourished since he started concentrating on his batting three years ago. Handscomb has cracked 1936 runs at 47 in the past two years in first-class cricket, including seven centuries. He has stepped up when given opportunities for Australia A over the past 18 months, making 357 runs at 45 from five matches (two played in India and three in Australia)

5. Moises Henriques (29 years old) – 2824 runs at 31, plus 98 wickets at 31 in first-class cricket
Henriques forced his way into the Test team on the tour of Sri Lanka but has made just 15 runs at an average of 2.5 in his past six Test innings. Handy with the bat, handy with the ball, but not close to being a specialist in either skill.

6. Travis Head (22 years old) – 2772 runs at 33, plus 18 wickets at 59 in first-class cricket
The Australian selectors clearly rate Head very highly. He broke into the ODI squad this year despite owning only a modest record in domestic 50-over cricket. Head is the reigning Sheffield Shield player of the year and has started this season decently, with scores of 66 and 43, plus four wickets at 26 with his modest but improving off spin.

The Outsiders

7. Hilton Cartwright (24 years old) – 717 runs at 48, plus 11 wickets at 33 in first-class cricket
A compact and patient batsman, Cartwright has become one of the most important players in the West Australian line-up. He adds value with his accurate medium pace.

8. Callum Ferguson (31 years old) – 6720 runs at 40 in first-class cricket
Ferguson has been perhaps the most consistent batsman in the Shield over the past three years, making 2000 runs at 54 in that time, including seven centuries. Ferguson’s best opportunity of earning a Test debut may come if veteran Adam Voges continues to struggle. Were the selectors to drop Voges this summer, they might want to keep some experience in the middle order and replace him with an old head like Ferguson rather than the comparatively inexperienced Patterson, Handscomb or Head.

[JohnS]

As per usual, I agree with you Ken on these things...especially the number of chances given to the Marsh brothers. I too feel that getting a quality all-rounder is a forlorn proposition, if they need that from Mitchell Marsh, get him to work on his skills at the first-class level in Australia, then tell him to play first-class cricket in the off-season in England. That way he'll iron out his weaknesses (i.e. his defence) or he'll concentrate on one skill more as he develops his game.

What I found galling about this test was allowing Duminy to make a hundred. He is an inconsistent and ordinary test player, this was first test hundred in two years. I think Australia will be more competitive in the second test...but they should have been better in this one. 

[Bill Hayes]

Mitch Marsh gets a game because there always needs to be at least two Mitchells in the side at any given time. I think his problem with his batting is that his helmet is too big for his head and wobbles around too much. And his ears get in the way of his bowling action. But seriously, I reckon Joe Burns should be in the side and given the chance, even if it is down the order a bit. He strikes me as more of number 5 or 6 type of batsman with his stroke play. Although, I haven't seen him much against spin. I've found it staggering how some of the Aussie bats in this test have been pinned down by a left arm finger spinner. He's flighting it well but not really spinning it, especially in the first innings. As soon as Warner went out it was like he was bowling hand grenades. He bowled well but not that well that the Aussie bats couldn't use their feet and pick up ones and twos.

[Ken Gargett]

can i add a note on commentators.

warnie was the most freakish amazing bowler of all time. he would have been a great captain. he is a terrific bloke if you ever meet him. when he talks cricket, we should all listen. BUT, every single time he gets a microphone, he has to bang on about getting out in the 90s and how he was out on 99 to a no ball. and then if some one does get out, we go through it all again. every day of this test - because it is the same as the number of times i have turned off. and how many times every season?

meanwhile slater is truly the most appalling commentator in history. let's have another in joke. back when i played. and endless inane comments. yesterday, in the few seconds before i could get to the mute, "the australians know what they must do. see it and hit it". seriously? wow. such in-depth thought. at least warnie is capable of better. slater is a moron (and for what it is worth, pretty much every single person i've ever spoken to who has met him has nothing good to say about the bloke. never met him but been told endlessly what a tosser he is). healy might make the occasional in joke (the difference is that his are often somewhat funny) but it is usually relevant to some degree. and he also has good knowledge that he shares. slater is just desperate to remain relevant and remind us he used to play. blokes like chappell and mark N must go home and cringe to be part of this. the money must be seriously good.

now, if either warnie (sadly) or slater are at the mike, i turn to something else and occasionally check the score on the internet.

[JohnS]

Channel Nine, the Australian Broadcaster of Cricket since 1979, has recently addressed their commentary team issues by removing Mike Hussey and Brett Lee. Yes, maybe they should go further to fix inane commentary. I wish the ABC radio guys, Jim Maxwell (currently recovering from a stroke, I wish him a full return to health soon) and Gerard Wheatley could commentate for Television on Channel Nine.

Jim Maxwell's view on cricket commentary...

''To do cricket commentary well, you have to be around it for quite a while — not get too self-indulgent, not get too carried away, not get too forgetful about what the audience needs to hear,'' Maxwell told Fairfax in a 2012 interview.

[Ken Gargett]

20 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Channel Nine, the Australian Broadcaster of Cricket since 1979, has recently addressed their commentary team issues by removing Mike Hussey and Brett Lee. Yes, maybe they should go further to fix inane commentary. I wish the ABC radio guys, Jim Maxwell (currently recovering from a stroke, I wish him a full return to health soon) and Gerard Wheatley could commentate for Television on Channel Nine.

Jim Maxwell's view on cricket commentary...

''To do cricket commentary well, you have to be around it for quite a while — not get too self-indulgent, not get too carried away, not get too forgetful about what the audience needs to hear,'' Maxwell told Fairfax in a 2012 interview.

or as kerry packer (who i doubt would tolerate this crap from slater) had the sense to say, 'just talk about the f'ing cricket'.

[Ken Gargett]

34 minutes ago, tommygun68 said:

Guess its better to talk about your inept commentators than your currant inept team!

our currant team? is that you rasin the topic?

didn't your mob just get done by bangladesh? didn't your mob almost lose both tests against that powerhouse of cricket, bangladesh? lose to bangladesh or lose to south africa?

if we are silent for a moment, that noise in the background would be the thin ice cracking.

but yes, we are inept. and in fairness, this thread was about our inept cricketeres. we just added the commentator bit.

[JohnS]

Oh my oh my, @Ken Gargett "the skull" (aka Kerry O'Keeffe) is making a comeback! Now his brand of cricket commentary is unique indeed!   

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/kerry-okeeffe-set-to-return-to-test-cricket-airwaves-with-triple-m-20161110-gsm8pl.html

[WarriorPrincess]

I used to enjoy watching cricket during summer when i was much younger ....the days of Dennis Lillie, Merv Hughes to name a couple. Yes it was awhile ago I am talking about .  

They weren't the best looking guys but they knew how to entertain the crowd not like these "pretty boys of cricket " now who seems more interested in getting their faces in magazine for one reason or another. 

These guys used to be proud to put on the Baggy Green and give it a go and try to do their best to make  Australia proud. 

i wouldn't know who is on the team at the moment and really don't care 

there had my say and bring on the footy season so I can enjoy watching sport again.

It is going to be a long summer 

[Ken Gargett]

32 minutes ago, WarriorPrincess said:

there had my say and bring on the footy season so I can enjoy watching sport again.

It is going to be a long summer 

i thought you followed the lions?

it is going to be a longer winter.

[JohnS]

All I can say is that the history of Australian Cricket suggests that we are near to rock bottom. I don't think we'll get instant results by changing the current team, but we may well get one or two long-term prospects developing (like Nick Maddison, Kurtis Patterson, Jake Lehmann or Peter Handscomb etc).

I do know, 100% for sure, that one or possibly two current test players will never play test cricket again.

[WarriorPrincess]

28 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

i thought you followed the lions?

it is going to be a longer winter.

I do but it is better watching them any day than cricket as it is today. You never know Ken next year "might" be a bit better than this year, then again who am i kidding.

There is always the Broncos to watch 

[JohnS]

The selectors will announce the Test Team for the 3rd Test in Adelaide (a day/night game) today. Let's see what they decide. For me, Voges is definitely out, whereas Mennie and Ferguson may join them (Ferguson much more likely). I think Burns needs another go after returning to the team for the second test and a tough call needs to be made on Nathan Lyon due to his lack of wickets in test/first-class cricket lately. Will Peter Handscomb make his debut after his 215 this weekend against NSW? Will Kurtis Patterson join him after his 55? Will Peter Nevill continue to keep or will Matthew Wade replace him? (I feel Nevill should stay a little while longer.)

[Ken Gargett]

11 minutes ago, JohnS said:

The selectors will announce the Test Team for the 3rd Test in Adelaide (a day/night game) today. Let's see what they decide. For me, Voges is definitely out, whereas Mennie and Ferguson may join them (Ferguson much more likely). I think Burns needs another go after returning to the team for the second test and a tough call needs to be made on Nathan Lyon due to his lack of wickets in test/first-class cricket lately. Will Peter Handscomb make his debut after his 215 this weekend against NSW? Will Kurtis Patterson join him after his 55? Will Peter Nevill continue to keep or will Matthew Wade replace him? (I feel Nevill should stay a little while longer.)

the best decision so far has been for rod marsh to go. spare me.

as much as i am a burns fan, i think he'll go. failed in the test and failed twice in the state game and his scores before the recall not flash. go back to shield cricket and amass some runs.

ferguson must go. failed both innings in the test and both innings in the state game. no longer young.

voges? 37? i hope he goes but they may not want to make too many changes at once. if he is fit, he'll probably get another go.

for me, the younger guys in contention include patterson, renshaw, handscomb, doolan. but doolan, 30 years old and has had a chance. patterson and handscomb around 24 or 25 - i think it really key we bring in some youth. both have been okay, not stellar. both mostly in contention from very big scores this weekend. renshaw is 20, only played a dozen shield games but is showing a better average than the others and scores more centuries. a big, talented, hard hitting, lefthanded queenslander, who can tally big scores. can defend and can attack. matt hayden mark two, come on down. they waited too long to put hayden in the team, don't make that mistake. it may not work out but he has the most upside. if it works, we have an opener for 10-15 years.

nevill streets ahead of wade. wade has had endless chances.

mennie? that he is even in the discussion shows the rocky barren depths to which we have plummeted.

[Ken Gargett]

looks like patterson and handscomb in with renshaw also. bird for mennie. o'keefe a possibility for lyon if he is fit. and shamefully wade for nevill. this needs confirmation.

can live with all that bar wade, although i wonder if dropping lyon is yet one more desperate attempt to shoehorn an "allrounder" in to the side. my giddy aunt, when will they give up? pick an allrounder when there is an allrounder of the quality needed. one theory is mennie was selected ahead of bird last test for that reason. even though he has a batting average of 17, a little better than bird, and a bowling average far less impressive. if we have to pick quicks based on their runs, the selectors need to be jailed.

brings us to wade. apparently he is considered the better batsman. fair enough. but they are keepers. gilchrist did australia so much harm - not that he wasn't a once in a generation player and the one player who you would select ahead of a pure keeper, but now every keeper is judged first on batting. it is the stupidest thing in human history. you only need the keeper to miss one chance or on the other hand, pick up a half chance, and that can cost/win the game. nevill is the better keeper. to be honest, i'd have hartley but that ship seems to have sailed. watch wade put down amla who goes on to get 150 and where are we? then wade scores 40 and everyone thinks he has justified his spot. wrong. wrong. wrong. dumb. criminal.

 

[JohnS]

Ben Dorries, writing for the Brisbane Courier-Mail, has written this afternoon that Matt Renshaw will become the second youngest batsman to debut for Australia in the last thirty years. The article confirms much of what you've stated above, Ken.

[Ken Gargett]

26 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Ben Dorries, writing for the Brisbane Courier-Mail, has written this afternoon that Matt Renshaw will become the second youngest batsman to debut for Australia in the last thirty years. The article confirms much of what you've stated above, Ken.

just occasionally, the selectors get it right. but if they go for wade i will be seriously grumpy.

[JohnS]

8 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

just occasionally, the selectors get it right. but if they go for wade i will be seriously grumpy.

Yes, I know what you mean. I don't like bringing back players like Wade either. Apparently there was talk of Sam Whiteman, the young West Australian. Now that would be a left-field choice to rival Ian Healy's selection in 1988!

[Ken Gargett]

3 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Yes, I know what you mean. I don't like bringing back players like Wade either. Apparently there was talk of Sam Whiteman, the young West Australian. Now that would be a left-field choice to rival Ian Healy's selection in 1988!

agreed. been wondering about him. gather he is a decent batsman but no idea of how he rates as a keeper. if he is a good keeper, i'd be happy with that. a good keeper can lock up a place for a decade.

the only difference with the healy decision is that heals is a qlder and therefore was guaranteed to succeed. it was a no brainer.

strange how we come up with some of the greatest keepers, even if they are not always recognised, and top quicks, but rarely spinners and far too few top batsmen. tallon, healy, grout, maclean, healy, anderson, seccombe, hartley - i'm sure i've missed a few. batsmen? burge, hayden, ????? (of course, when others come to the state, they finally find greatness - chappell g, border....).

[JohnS]

Official confirmation on Renshaw, Handscomb and surprisingly (or maybe not) Maddison. Bird and Sayers (ok, they are better bowlers than Mennie) and Wade comes in Nevill (not a good move I feel). It's been a long time since we've had six changes to the team.

Nathan Lyon can thank Steven O'Keefe's propensity to breakdown for his position in the team. It may be his last chance to perform on the international stage.

[Ken Gargett]

12 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Official confirmation on Renshaw, Handscomb and surprisingly (or maybe not) Maddison. Bird and Sayers (ok, they are better bowlers than Mennie) and Wade comes in Nevill (not a good move I feel). It's been a long time since we've had six changes to the team.

Nathan Lyon can thank Steven O'Keefe's propensity to breakdown for his position in the team. It may be his last chance to perform on the international stage.

john, i'd guess the last time we had 6 changes was 78/79 v england. when world series stripped the team (or possibly losses due to players playing in south africa during apartheid).