Mold! ?

[Fugu]

Calm down everybody - Piggy couldn't be more wrong about that: New production standards have long been put into effect with Altadis coming on board - wearing body suits and gloves is obligatory!

[scap99]

1 minute ago, Fugu said:

Calm down everybody - Piggy couldn't be more wrong about that: New production standards have long been put into effect with Altadis coming on board - wearing gloves is obligatory!

Good thing there's a zipper on that suit....

[Orion21]

The whole thing about being able to smoke a cigar with mold on wrapper, but not on the foot, is an old wives tale.  Pig's very graphic description is true though.  In daily life we are eating, drinking and breathing all sorts of nasty things.  However, with these cigars I would leave them and there boxes out for a few days to let them dry out (unless your natural ambient conditions are higher).  I would then put them back in their airtight boxes.

[andy]

2 hours ago, PigFish said:

I would!

I would brush the mold off those cigars and smoke them! Feet too!

In the thousands of cigars that I have smoked over the decades I have likely smoked many insects, other's perspiration, and body hair, dirt, spit and rodent droppings...! Welcome to the real world people. You might say that every time I light the foot of a cigar, I start the autoclave!!!

How many of you think that you have never fallen prey to a vendor or trading partner??? Guess what people, mold exists on and inside cigars. You have licked it and tasted it, smoked it and inhaled it more times than you could count.

Last time I checked there were no health checks, and body suits, or clean rooms for those rolling cigars. While I try not to think about it, there is some guy with VD likely scratching his sores and going right back to rolling this very minute.

Enjoy the thought next time you light up!!! -LOL

-the Pig

You paint such an appealing picture. I am sure you are right in that I have no idea what might be inside a cigar but if I have seen mold I do my best to get rid of it before smoking. The rest I will leave to blissful ignorance.

[Guest]

On 24 October 2016 at 3:15 AM, PigFish said:

 I toss moldy food... I suppose it is a luxury of ignorance!

...rather, the luxury of first world wealth we are privileged with, my friend.

I'm scared of eating bruised fruit too!

[PigFish]

55 minutes ago, Fugu said:

Calm down everybody - Piggy couldn't be more wrong about that: New production standards have long been put into effect with Altadis coming on board - wearing body suits and gloves is obligatory!

... she had hair in her armpits before she started her shift rolling! I just thought you would like to know!!! -LOL -Piggy

[NMJoe]

3 hours ago, PigFish said:

I would!

I would brush the mold off those cigars and smoke them! Feet too!

In the thousands of cigars that I have smoked over the decades I have likely smoked many insects, other's perspiration, and body hair, dirt, spit and rodent droppings...! Welcome to the real world people. You might say that every time I light the foot of a cigar, I start the autoclave!!!

How many of you think that you have never fallen prey to a vendor or trading partner??? Guess what people, mold exists on and inside cigars. You have licked it and tasted it, smoked it and inhaled it more times than you could count.

Last time I checked there were no health checks, and body suits, or clean rooms for those rolling cigars. While I try not to think about it, there is some guy with VD likely scratching his sores and going right back to rolling this very minute.

Enjoy the thought next time you light up!!! -LOL

-the Pig

I really did LOL after reading this post, Ray. I love it!

 

Now, would anyone like to buy some cigars? I suddenly have some for sale, cheap.

[luv2fly]

19 minutes ago, PigFish said:

... she had hair in her armpits before she started her shift rolling! I just thought you would like to know!!! -LOL -Piggy

Give me all the cigars she rolled!  Just don't tell the boss.....

[Shaunster]

FWIW this is my first ever post here, we had a discussion about this over on the UK cigar forums. One member had been in contact with Cambridge university and they came back with a reply as well as forwarding him to the kew fungariam who came back with some information.

' Update, by far the most common mold found in tobacco is [aspergillus fumigatus] and [oespora tabaci] both contain Mycotoxins that ARE NOT destroyed by the temperatures encountered in burning tobacco and neither can they be destroyed by freezing.

The result of inhalation of these toxins can result in something called [Aflatoxicosis] which can be particularly nasty apparently.'

Hope thats interesting for you guys.

[PapaDisco]

My latest order to FOH:

Hi Rob, 

Could you please send me 2 boxes of Partagas Series D Number 4, PSP Quality and if you would be so kind to inspect the sticks for any signs of the Clap, crabs, clam chowder, crotch crickets, itchy-bitchy, Spanish Flu, Legionnaire's, H2N1, Montezuma's Revenge, or any hint of a bad attitude; it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

[BuzzArd]

31 minutes ago, Shaunster said:

FWIW this is my first ever post here, we had a discussion about this over on the UK cigar forums. One member had been in contact with Cambridge university and they came back with a reply as well as forwarding him to the kew fungariam who came back with some information.

' Update, by far the most common mold found in tobacco is [aspergillus fumigatus] and [oespora tabaci] both contain Mycotoxins that ARE NOT destroyed by the temperatures encountered in burning tobacco and neither can they be destroyed by freezing.

The result of inhalation of these toxins can result in something called [Aflatoxicosis] which can be particularly nasty apparently.'

Hope thats interesting for you guys.

So much for blissful ignorance...

[Guybrush]

34 minutes ago, Shaunster said:

[...]  by far the most common mold found in tobacco is [aspergillus fumigatus] and [oespora tabaci] both contain Mycotoxins that ARE NOT destroyed by  [...]

Is this the reason why some people distinguish between white mold and yellow/green mold? Aspergillus fumigatus is grey-green.

[PapaDisco]

33 minutes ago, Shaunster said:

FWIW this is my first ever post here, we had a discussion about this over on the UK cigar forums. One member had been in contact with Cambridge university and they came back with a reply as well as forwarding him to the kew fungariam who came back with some information.

' Update, by far the most common mold found in tobacco is [aspergillus fumigatus] and [oespora tabaci] both contain Mycotoxins that ARE NOT destroyed by the temperatures encountered in burning tobacco and neither can they be destroyed by freezing.

The result of inhalation of these toxins can result in something called [Aflatoxicosis] which can be particularly nasty apparently.'

Hope thats interesting for you guys.

Umm . . . this is me here . . . typing from the safety of the center of my room in my tightie-whities . . . damn this keyboard looks dirty!

I thought mycotoxins were generally destroyed at or above their melting point?  Like 300F or so?  Easily below the temp of a flaming stogie.   Plus the point of a mycotoxin is not so much that it's toxic in specific ways (they are, usually supressing or killing immune cells) but that their immunosuppressant properties are only useful in paving the way for the fungus amongus to infect the host . . . which fungus would have also perished by brush or flame?

Anyway, baring some sort of severe immunocompromised cigar smoker, I think you'd need a fair pile of fungus to get enough mycotoxin (more than what's on the standard stogie) and you couldn't burn that cigar?  I'm speculating at this point, so would be glad to hear a more experienced voice on the matter.  If your boys from Cambridge are up to dialing in please ask them to weigh in!  

[luv2fly]

32 minutes ago, PapaDisco said:

crabs, clam chowder, crotch crickets,

That makes good soup right?

[Shaunster]

12 minutes ago, PapaDisco said:

Umm . . . this is me here . . . typing from the safety of the center of my room in my tightie-whities . . . damn this keyboard looks dirty!

I thought mycotoxins were generally destroyed at or above their melting point?  Like 300F or so?  Easily below the temp of a flaming stogie.   Plus the point of a mycotoxin is not so much that it's toxic in specific ways (they are, usually supressing or killing immune cells) but that their immunosuppressant properties are only useful in paving the way for the fungus amongus to infect the host . . . which fungus would have also perished by brush or flame?

Anyway, baring some sort of severe immunocompromised cigar smoker, I think you'd need a fair pile of fungus to get enough mycotoxin (more than what's on the standard stogie) and you couldn't burn that cigar?  I'm speculating at this point, so would be glad to hear a more experienced voice on the matter.  If your boys from Cambridge are up to dialing in please ask them to weigh in!  

 

No idea on the science behind it, I will post back here if theres any updates on it.

I guess this is why people say if its on the foot of the cigar then its best to chuck it, or at least cut it back since any fungus inside the cigar away from the foot wouldnt be killed by the heat and you are potentially breathing it in, if any of this amounts to it causing real harm I dont know.

 

[scap99]

14 minutes ago, luv2fly said:

That makes good soup right?

I'm not so sure she spends any time in the kitchen..... Lol

[Akela3rd]

Could it be that they just don't want people to smoke and are laying on the oogie-boogies extra thick? That is, more oogie-boogies than are already in these filthy, stinky, cancerous death sticks that make you impotent and your hair fall out and your legs turn green and your piss to acid and your cat hates you and stuff. Yeah, you heard me, stuff.

[Smallclub]

1 hour ago, Shaunster said:

' Update, by far the most common mold found in tobacco is [aspergillus fumigatus] and [oespora tabaci] both contain Mycotoxins that ARE NOT destroyed by the temperatures encountered in burning tobacco and neither can they be destroyed by freezing.

The result of inhalation of these toxins can result in something called [Aflatoxicosis] which can be particularly nasty apparently.'

1/ "Mold found in tobacco" (tobacco fields, tobacco barns, in the country of production) isn't necessary the same mold that occurs on our cigars, in completely different environments…

2/ I wonder why all the tobacconists who spend X hours a day, 6 days a week, in their walking humidor are not badly sick from aspergillosis…

[Guybrush]

As far as I know Aspergillus fumigatus is green-grey and Oespora Tabaci is normally not to be found in the humidor. It would be interessted to know what kind of mold the white one on my cigars is.

[Bohn007]

5 minutes ago, Smallclub said:

1/ "Mold found in tobacco" (tobacco fields, tobacco barns, in the country of production) isn't necessary the same mold that occurs on our cigars, in completely different environments…

2/ I wonder why all the tobacconists who spend X hours a day, 6 days a week, in their walking humidor are not badly sick from aspergillosis…

Tobacconists are fine because they are only smoking plume

[Fugu]

13 hours ago, Shaunster said:

' Update, by far the most common mold found in tobacco is [aspergillus fumigatus] and [oespora tabaci] both contain Mycotoxins that ARE NOT destroyed by the temperatures encountered in burning tobacco and neither can they be destroyed by freezing.

Thanks for this info Shaunster - but to set this all into a perspective (and this time, I'll try to be serious...) - the generalized info from the mentioned experts, while basically not wrong is also at the same time not correct. What may hold for "tobacco" will not automatically hold for "cigars". Let me explain:

First, mycotoxins will in fact definitely be destroyed by burning, but the correct statement should have been, not all of it (if present...) will actually be burnt by smoking the cigar. Like other substances, a certain fraction will likely volatilize without disintegration (and I'd venture to guess that this has not been scientifically investigated so far). Second, those two species mentioned, while certainly to be found on moist organic matter, i.e. in principle also on rotting tobacco (A. fumigatus being one of the most frequent and most widely spread mould species), they are highly unlikely to be found on our cigars, as long as not being horribly neglected. Reason: Finished cigars are simply too dry for them, even if appearing too "moist" to our standards. Likely reason for the widespread misconception here: Most research in this field is being done by and for the logistics and insurance sector - they are dealing with waterlogged (raw) tobacco during shipping and storage. On cigars, however, you are more likely to find only xerophilic species, species that are capable of coping with the low water activities found in there. One of those moulds frequently found on "dry" tobacco being species of the Eurotium sp. genus. This fungus is also a fairly widespread cosmopolitan found virtually everywhere in our homes. And - yes - it is also capable of producing certain mycotoxins!

But: You can't skip the question of dosis here. So, if one really wants to know, he has to sent in his mouldy cigar to a lab for proper analysis of the fungal species and get a GC done on the concentration of the diverse mycotoxins. Then - with that result in hand - I'd strongly recommend going back and checking the amount of hazardous substances in tobacco. Perhaps, 'some' have yet heard that tobacco smoke contains some fairly toxic / cancerogenic / mutagenic substances like nicotine, benzene, cyanide, nitrosamines, polycyclic aromates, lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium, even traces of polonium and other radionuclides, to mention a few.

By no means am I intending to downplay the hazardous nature of mycotoxins. But I'd say, if one fears fungal toxins from his cigar, then one really, really rather shouldn't smoke at all!

 

(...and likewise, not keep a compost heap in his garden, not operate a fridge, not eat blue cheese, not hold certain pets, not have a bedroom with mattresses, well preferably not have a house at all, as most modern homes are well "infested"....)

[Fugu]

2 hours ago, PigFish said:

... she had hair in her armpits before she started her shift rolling! I just thought you would like to know!!! -LOL -Piggy

I will just say complexity, Piggy, complexity !!

[PigFish]

Yuk, this cigar has mold on it!!! I guess I will toss it.... So kids, McDonalds for dinner??? -the Pig

[PapaDisco]

1 hour ago, PigFish said:

Yuk, this cigar has mold on it!!! I guess I will toss it.... So kids, McDonalds for dinner??? -the Pig

Oh No!  Not IRONY again!  Damn it!  Who let the Pig off his meds!!  

Or was that sardonic ridicule . . . 

[chris12381]

This is by far the most interesting and entertaining discussion on cigar mold I've ever read.

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