New Beads And RH still same

[Preacher man]

I got some new beads that are 60% to put in my wineador and I've noticed the RH hasn't changed on the top two shelves which still read around 70% and the bottom three shelves are around 65%.  I put half the new beads on the bottom and half on the top.  The 65% beads are still in wineador.  I did not put any water in new 60% beads before putting in to wineador hoping they would lower RH throughout.  Just wondering if I need to....

1. Split beads up more throughout wineador

2. Put all beads on the bottom or on top

3. Get a fan

4. Put aging cigars on top two shelves and smoking rotation on bottom three shelves 

5. Get a fan

6.  Leave it alone and quit worrying about it

7. Do something I'm unaware of

any thoughts, feedback, or advice would be appreciated...I've already learned a ton here on FOH in last few weeks.

thanks!

[backbone]

I'm no expert, but I have .02 cents. 

I believe you will have to take the old 65rh beads out. Then it will take time for the rh to come down because of the moisture content of your sticks along with any wood you have in there.  It should balance out in about a month or so.  Until then dry box your smokes until they are to your tastes.

Do not add any water to the 60rh beads until the rh comes down.

[Jimmy_jack]

I'm new here, so excuse me if I'm wrong. My experience though is that these are not matters that change quickly. Given that you have inventory that is already settled in at 65-70%, that will have an effect. I'd say give it a week. Maybe even open the door once a day to circulate new air in. 

Make the change you planned on and see how it adjusts. It's like a diet. You can bust your ass in the gym for a week, but the scale won't go down immediately. 

[Chepe]

I believe backbone is right on all accounts.  The 65% need to come out completely and replace them with dry 60%.  The dry 60% should begin to absorb some water content and pull your rh down.  I wouldn't worry about it if it takes a while to see a change, it's better for a gradual change in rh vs. any rapid changes.  

[SloppyJ]

I would try to spread them out as much as possible to give the beads more surface area to work with then wait. Bunker down, I'm sure piggy is about to sniff this thread out!  

 

I'll go ahead and help him out. What are your ambient conditions? 

 

Turn the temp down on your wineador and try to adjust it that way too.

[Preacher man]

3 hours ago, SloppyJ said:

I'll go ahead and help him out. What are your ambient conditions? 

 

Turn the temp down on your wineador and try to adjust it that way too.

Ambient (74faranheit; 58%rh)

[TheMonk]

I recall once reading an explanation from David Asp, owner of HF, where he explained that, when two different "preset" beads are placed in the same humidor, basically what happens is that the top RH preset beads (in this case 65%) will try to retain its humidity until it's totally emptied of water, at which time the RH will very quickly drop to the lower preset beads, in your case 60%. I'm by no mean an expert in the "science" of how beads work, but that could be the reason why you're not seeing immediate results.

[PigFish]

I have read some of the posts above, and I have to tell you (no offense guys) very few people appear to know what a beaded desiccant does!

Gentlemen, ladies there are no 'programmed beads.' They are acclimatized beads...

Until the makers of these 'programmed beads' publishes a set of isotherms "proving" all the myths about them, I will continue to say 'bullshit.' The burden of proof is not on me. It is on those that sell the stuff.

OP: Since you bought new beads (and likely wasted your money) lets assume that the 65rH beads are sacrificial. Lets bake them, shall we?

Now I don't sell this stuff, but since I understand how it works, drying it is not going to hurt anything. I would say ask the maker, but I bet they don't know any more than you do!!!

Bake them on a clean, dry sheet, in a clean odor free oven a 200F. Open them often to let out the water. Take them hot, with a metal funnel and transfer them to a mason jar. A mason jar (for canning) can withstand temperatures in excess of the BP of water. Seal them up, let them cool! Just like in canning, the lid should 'suck down' onto the jar. That is the desiccant pulling water out of the air and the air contracting as it cools.

Take out all the non-necessary hygroscopic matter in the humidor. And just bag it for now.

Introduce the dry beads when cool and let them do their job as a desiccant. The best bet would be to put them on a flat sheet type pan to given them the most exposure possible. They will likely acclimatize if 'bedded' properly within 72 hours. Take them out, bake them again, and again, and again, until the rH is down to where you like it.

Once it stabilizes, say at 65rH, your new (old) beads are again 65rH beads.... Bingo, problem solved!

Now look, if you live in a net rH high environment, and you store your cigars at 65F (a really bad idea) then every time you open the cooler, you are going to coat the entire inside of the cooler with water, cigars and all. You will never beat this until you control your humidor better or establish a dehydration cycle.

Whatever you do, you don't need more water. You have too much water already and your cigars, beads boxes and every other hygroscopic material in you humidor is soaked (read rhetorically) already!

Where is your condensate going? It is going somewhere? If it is going back into the cooler, start catching it and using your tools at hand to dehydrate your box. Capture it and remove it, daily if necessary!

Take two aspirin and post me in the morning!!! -Piggy

 

By the way, this is a published desiccant chart showing different kinds of desiccants. The most vertical is activated charcoal and it is nowhere near 65rH. Want to prove that your beads are designed to deliver near vertical performance at 60-65-70rH...? Show me the isotherm and I will believe it.

[Preacher man]

Pigfish....what do you recommend to control RH (lower RH) in a wineador?  Cigar oasis any better than beads?

i know these may seem like elementary questions....thanks, I appreciate it.

[danny]

Not surprised to see the rH higher up top since humidity rises.  Use fans to gently circulate air so you can avoid "patches".   I don't personally use beads but found that using two different rH levels of humidification always end up being soaked up by the lower of the two.  Might be different with beads but I would try to stick with the same "set" rH beads/humidification or I would assume you'd have a constant battle.  Maybe mix all of the beads up and keep the top beads dryer?  And also placed throughout instead of just the top and bottom?

[PigFish]

Your best bet is using the cooler, but that requires sufficient control and design. You have to understand humidor design theory here and that will not likely spell good news for you!!!

I am not trying to be rude about it, but the more humidor theory you understand, the more complex the system becomes to make it work. I wish it were not so, but wishing it has not provided me better answers.

It is not that your system cannot work, but you have to understand how it works and why it works before you can make it work (for you). I is not going to 'work' by itself. Believe me, I have tried that method... Oh, have I tried!!!

Read my post above again. Don't make me retype it!!! Some of your answers are right there.

Cheers! -Piggy

[Preacher man]

Thanks 

[CaptainQuintero]

Don't forget patience either, beads generally take weeks to shift the humidor to the general r/h you want them at.

Like piggy mentioned above, if your fridge is turned on then it will be creating extra moisture along with the cooler temp. That's just part and parcel of using a fridge. Unless you have a way to remove that added moisture eg regularly changing your wet beads for new ones every few weeks, or a more dedicated high tech system, then you will simply get issues because of the climbing water content inside your fridge 

I have a fridge but use it for its air-tight quality, I simply don't have the time, energy or cash to deal with the consequences of having it turned on

It simply comes down to what you are prepared to invest in your cigar storage

It is worth mentioning that if your climate is very dry and you constantly have to add water to your beads to bring the rh up then a fridge possibly could solve that issue. If your climate is more humid than what you want to store your cigars at then you're going to be fighting an uphill battle unless you have very strong porcine qualities