El Presidente Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 The article gives an insight to the strain on US cigar manufacturers coming to grips with the new FDA rules. This is Government regulation at its worst where short arbitrary timelines are enforced onto an industry with care as to their impact. http://hotliked.com/frame/8304333127_10154577266138128/give-that-man-a-cigar-but-quick-before-the-re/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSXCIGAR Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Can't see the full article without subscribing (possibly US IP blocked); here's the story elsewhere: http://hotliked.com/frame/8304333127_10154577266138128/give-that-man-a-cigar-but-quick-before-the-re/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSXCIGAR Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 All this hustle just to get two years before the approval needs to be submitted, which they'll have to do for all cigars introduced after 2007 anyways. I cant imagine these new lines are anything worth smoking. They're probably throwing them together with trimmings and manure just to roll them up and get them to market. I'm sure they'll work out the kinks later, but I wouldn't be anxious to smoke these new lines with apparently hand-cut bands designed by children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 22 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said: Can't see the full article without subscribing (possibly US IP blocked); here's the story elsewhere: http://hotliked.com/frame/8304333127_10154577266138128/give-that-man-a-cigar-but-quick-before-the-re/ Cheers for that. I will alter the link on the initial post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy73 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I don't know how much good it will do but here is a link to protest these changes. There are still pending amendments that could reduce the funding for the FDA if they impose any regulations on premium cigars. What a huge blow to us cigar smokers in the states. https://www.cigarrights.org/fda-response.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Look at the people that brought you the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act and take your rage to the ballot box!!! If you voted for some of these chumps, it is your own fault! Like your freedom, vote out the left!!! MHO, -Piggy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSXCIGAR Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I always like to take the opportunity to point out that tobacco use, particularly cigarette smoking, has been on a steady decline in the US since the 1940s (the first evidence linking tobacco to cancer appeared in 1939). In fact, contrary to many people's belief, the late 1960s was the beginning of a significant public anti-smoking backlash bolstered in part by the Surgeon General's scathing report in 1964. Many celebrities came out openly against smoking during this time. Radio and television stations voluntarily moved away from tobacco sponsors as did many major ad agencies. Becoming alarmed at the increasingly bad PR, tobacco companies desperately began trying to increase advertising and pro-smoking propaganda in the US on radio and television but were repeatedly denied, most notably by CBS. Again, this was occurring before even any labeling requirements appeared on tobacco packaging (1971). There has never been a better example of the free market working and the masses actually responding to data and evidence than this period onwards. The tobacco companies, try as they might, could not stop the bleeding. All this with absolutely NO legislation regarding tobacco in the US and very low, if any, tobacco taxes. Tobacco use among all age groups in the US was plummeting. Contrast this with countries like Czechoslovakia, Italy, England where tobacco advertising had been banned for years and tobacco use actually rose significantly. The period after 1971 saw a continuous rise in tobacco taxes and an increase in smoking bans in public places. Not surprisingly, the rates of decline in tobacco use slowed. This has been the trend since the 1980s. The rates of decline since have never been as sharp as they were from 1950-1980 and really hit a stagnation around the mid-late 90s. One could reasonably conclude that virtually everything that's been done to try and speed up the rate of decline has had the opposite or at least no effect on smoking rates. Can anyone think of any other government policies that attempt to curb undesirable behavior that have had similar results? This case shows that it actually appears that leaving people alone to make their own choices about potentially harmful behaviors was the most effective method of reducing that behavior. Imagine that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reliefdvm Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 19 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said: All this hustle just to get two years before the approval needs to be submitted, which they'll have to do for all cigars introduced after 2007 anyways. I doubt very many of these will ever be submitted for approval. At worst they can sell them for another 2 years and at best the Grandfather date will be moved to aug 7 2016 and they won't ever have to submit. The specials like some of the Halloween releases are just one shot anyway, so no need to worry about long term sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwr0201 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I have a second job as a tobacconist at a rather well stocked shop and am definitely seeing the beginnings of what appears to be possible governmental involvement already. We are increasingly experiencing difficulties in getting stock of some previously reliable lines. Have been told by a few of our suppliers that cigar stock is being held up in customs. Never had this occur before. Now, this could be coincidence, but it is interesting that this is happening with multiple suppliers. Have also seen price increases from over half of our suppliers recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixa Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I have a second job as a tobacconist at a rather well stocked shop and am definitely seeing the beginnings of what appears to be possible governmental involvement already. We are increasingly experiencing difficulties in getting stock of some previously reliable lines. Have been told by a few of our suppliers that cigar stock is being held up in customs. Never had this occur before. Now, this could be coincidence, but it is interesting that this is happening with multiple suppliers. Have also seen price increases from over half of our suppliers recently. Maybe more to do with all the new lines manufactured before the deadline causing shortage and the the fact there has been drugs found inside cigars from Dominican Republic being shipped to USA causing the custom part of the delay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gweilgi Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 9 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said: The period after 1971 saw a continuous rise in tobacco taxes and an increase in smoking bans in public places. Not surprisingly, the rates of decline in tobacco use slowed. This has been the trend since the 1980s. The rates of decline since have never been as sharp as they were from 1950-1980 and really hit a stagnation around the mid-late 90s. One could reasonably conclude that virtually everything that's been done to try and speed up the rate of decline has had the opposite or at least no effect on smoking rates. Can anyone think of any other government policies that attempt to curb undesirable behavior that have had similar results? This case shows that it actually appears that leaving people alone to make their own choices about potentially harmful behaviors was the most effective method of reducing that behavior. Imagine that. Excellent post, thank you! A couple of points... Firstly, leaving people alone to make up their own choices is never enough for crusaders, no matter the cause. They are on a mission, they are right, they know better ... and that gives them (in their own minds) the right, no, the *duty*, to keep pushing and nannying and pestering and legislating. A related mindset is the busybody social snob. Such folk are very often well-meaning and informed, and on this basis they like to tell the poor and uneducated (and, incidentally, ethnic and other minorities) how to conduct their affairs. Whether it is smoking bans or remedial school programmes for migrant children or bans on large servings of soft drinks or any number of welfare schemes, theirs is the mandate of top-down do-goodery. And lastly, government. These are people who are elected and paid to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the citizenry. In order to keep being elected (and paid), they have to be SEEN to work hard for us. Public health and welfare are easy ways of achieving this: these are highly publicised policies that reach into every voter's life (so we cannot complain they aren't doing anything), and they are very often not politically contentious and hence "safe". After all, who could argue against a policy that is designed to keep us healthy and well? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corylax18 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Wow. If Rocky Patel is telling you a cigar isn't ready to go imagine how bad it must be!!! I've never smoked a single RP thats been "ready". 3 months of age on garbage tobacco and its a "Special", "Ultra Limited" "Exclusive" release I know our host has a genial relationship with Mr. Patel, and that Rocky isn't the only one doing it now, but that kind of bullshit only tarnishes the industry. All so they can tuck a few extra bucks in their pocket before some new legislation takes affect. Don't get me wrong, Rocky is great at what hes does. He essentially invented what all these manufacturers are doing right now. Buying huge lots of second rate (or worse) tobaccos from wherever he can find it, roll whatever you can, then market the hell out of it. The Cubans are even doing it now....... Now wonder most people think they hate cigars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickHendeson Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 2 hours ago, Corylax18 said: Buying huge lots of second rate (or worse) tobaccos from wherever he can find it, roll whatever you can, then market the hell out of it. The Cubans are even doing it now....... Source? Examples? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactochris Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 5 minutes ago, RickHendeson said: Source? Examples? The snake on the flag told him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corylax18 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 27 minutes ago, RickHendeson said: Source? Examples? 21 minutes ago, sactochris said: The snake on the flag told him. Give me a break. Rocky is the king of the limited line: List of Rocky Patel Cigars Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 Rocky Patel Vintage 1992 Rocky Patel Vintage 1999 (Connecticut shade wrapper) Rocky Patel Vintage 2003 (Cameroon Wrapper) Rocky Patel Decade Rocky Patel ITC 10th Anniversary Rocky Patel Olde World Reserve Rocky Patel Fifteenth Anniversary Rocky Patel Sun Grown Rocky Patel HR 500 Rocky Patel The Edge Maduro Rocky Patel The Edge Corojo Rocky Patel The Edge Sumatra (limited release) Rocky Patel The Edge Lite Rocky Patel Connecticut Rocky Patel R4 Rocky Patel Burn Rocky Patel Patel Brothers Rocky Patel Summer Collection 2008 Rocky Patel Autumn Collection 2008 Rocky Patel Winter Collection 2008 Rocky Patel Spring Collection 2009 Rocky Patel Summer Collection 2009 Rocky Patel Autumn Collection 2009 Rocky Patel 1961 (introduced at 2009 IPCPR trade show) Rocky Patel Patel Brothers (introduced at 2009 IPCPR trade show) Rocky Patel TAA (tobacco association of America LTD) Rocky Patel Freedom Rocky Patel Fusion Rocky Patel Fusion MM Rocky Patel I-Press Rocky Patel AJ-Press Rocky Patel Signature Rocky Patel Gran Habano Rocky Patel Renaissance Rocky Patel Thunder by Nimish Rocky Patel Xen by Nish Rocky Patel Fifty Rocky Patel Patel Bros. Next Generation Cargo by Rocky Patel VigilantE by Rocky Patel List of Rocky Patel Private Label Cigars Conuco Cruz Real Gold by Rocky Patel (a Thompson Cigars exclusive) Rocky Patel American Market Selection Rocky Patel Honduran Classic Rocky Patel Cuban Blend Rocky Patel Rosado Rocky Patel Fuma Vibe Vudu Reo Chicago Reserve Torpedo by Rocky Patel Nørding by Rocky Patel for [Eric Nørding Pipemaker] Rocky Patel Ocean Club (a Holts Cigar Company exclusive) Prodigy by Rocky Patel (a BestCigarPrices exclusive) In only 13 years of existence. Check how many of these are still around. "Seasonal" cigars? Really? The "Autumn" collection was so exclusive you can still get them for $5 bucks a stick 8 years later!! How have we all missed out?!?!? If you want to believe that Rocky is somehow buying (from many sources) small batches of the highest quality tobacco for the lowest prices, then leasing rollers and space from Nestor Placensia for pennies on the dollar and passing all the "savings" onto you, feel free. The world won't function without suckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickHendeson Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Corylax18 said: Give me a break. Rocky is the king of the limited line: List of Rocky Patel Cigars Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 Rocky Patel Vintage 1992 Rocky Patel Vintage 1999 (Connecticut shade wrapper) Rocky Patel Vintage 2003 (Cameroon Wrapper) Rocky Patel Decade Rocky Patel ITC 10th Anniversary Rocky Patel Olde World Reserve Rocky Patel Fifteenth Anniversary Rocky Patel Sun Grown Rocky Patel HR 500 Rocky Patel The Edge Maduro Rocky Patel The Edge Corojo Rocky Patel The Edge Sumatra (limited release) Rocky Patel The Edge Lite Rocky Patel Connecticut Rocky Patel R4 Rocky Patel Burn Rocky Patel Patel Brothers Rocky Patel Summer Collection 2008 Rocky Patel Autumn Collection 2008 Rocky Patel Winter Collection 2008 Rocky Patel Spring Collection 2009 Rocky Patel Summer Collection 2009 Rocky Patel Autumn Collection 2009 Rocky Patel 1961 (introduced at 2009 IPCPR trade show) Rocky Patel Patel Brothers (introduced at 2009 IPCPR trade show) Rocky Patel TAA (tobacco association of America LTD) Rocky Patel Freedom Rocky Patel Fusion Rocky Patel Fusion MM Rocky Patel I-Press Rocky Patel AJ-Press Rocky Patel Signature Rocky Patel Gran Habano Rocky Patel Renaissance Rocky Patel Thunder by Nimish Rocky Patel Xen by Nish Rocky Patel Fifty Rocky Patel Patel Bros. Next Generation Cargo by Rocky Patel VigilantE by Rocky Patel List of Rocky Patel Private Label Cigars Conuco Cruz Real Gold by Rocky Patel (a Thompson Cigars exclusive) Rocky Patel American Market Selection Rocky Patel Honduran Classic Rocky Patel Cuban Blend Rocky Patel Rosado Rocky Patel Fuma Vibe Vudu Reo Chicago Reserve Torpedo by Rocky Patel Nørding by Rocky Patel for [Eric Nørding Pipemaker] Rocky Patel Ocean Club (a Holts Cigar Company exclusive) Prodigy by Rocky Patel (a BestCigarPrices exclusive) In only 13 years of existence. Check how many of these are still around. "Seasonal" cigars? Really? The "Autumn" collection was so exclusive you can still get them for $5 bucks a stick 8 years later!! How have we all missed out?!?!? If you want to believe that Rocky is somehow buying (from many sources) small batches of the highest quality tobacco for the lowest prices, then leasing rollers and space from Nestor Placensia for pennies on the dollar and passing all the "savings" onto you, feel free. The world won't function without suckers. You will see I omitted any reference to NCs, and only was asking about your comments on Habanos. The questions stand . . . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corylax18 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Haha, Oh. I misunderstood, my apology. I was not suggesting that HSA is buying up tobacco, from other places, but I see how it could have read that way. By "the Cubans are even doing it now" I mean they have ratcheted up the marketing game quite a bit recently. But have improved far less in the product/delivery category. Every year there are multiple new "Ultra premium" LE's, RE's, LCDH, Releases, Etc, Etc. All while normal releases are being cut left and right, and well documented harvest/growing issues over the last few years. While Cuba is growing the Tobacco themselves (I never meant to infer they weren't) there is less tobacco going into the barns for drying, then curing and eventually rolling. Between less overall tobacco and poor growing weather, that has to equate to less "Ultra Premium" tobacco. Regardless of the spin (marketing, publicity) that HSA puts on the situation. Yet we have orders of magnitude more "Ultra Premium" Cigars, the math doesn't add up. Making them Shorter and Fatter allows you to use less (harder to grow) wrapper leave per a given amount of filler. Eliminating regular production appears to be making up for the rest. My point is: if you are eliminating regular cigars to use the tobacco for "Special" or "Ultra Premium" cigars, those resulting cigars are special in name and marketing only. So, I believe that the majority of the new "Special release" cigars are following the Rocky Patel method, use what tobacco you can get your hands on, then tell everybody its the best thing ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafabrica Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 10 hours ago, Corylax18 said: Give me a break. Rocky is the king of the limited line: List of Rocky Patel Cigars Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 Rocky Patel Vintage 1992 Rocky Patel Vintage 1999 (Connecticut shade wrapper) Rocky Patel Vintage 2003 (Cameroon Wrapper) Rocky Patel Decade Rocky Patel ITC 10th Anniversary Rocky Patel Olde World Reserve Rocky Patel Fifteenth Anniversary Rocky Patel Sun Grown Rocky Patel HR 500 Rocky Patel The Edge Maduro Rocky Patel The Edge Corojo Rocky Patel The Edge Sumatra (limited release) Rocky Patel The Edge Lite Rocky Patel Connecticut Rocky Patel R4 Rocky Patel Burn Rocky Patel Patel Brothers Rocky Patel Summer Collection 2008 Rocky Patel Autumn Collection 2008 Rocky Patel Winter Collection 2008 Rocky Patel Spring Collection 2009 Rocky Patel Summer Collection 2009 Rocky Patel Autumn Collection 2009 Rocky Patel 1961 (introduced at 2009 IPCPR trade show) Rocky Patel Patel Brothers (introduced at 2009 IPCPR trade show) Rocky Patel TAA (tobacco association of America LTD) Rocky Patel Freedom Rocky Patel Fusion Rocky Patel Fusion MM Rocky Patel I-Press Rocky Patel AJ-Press Rocky Patel Signature Rocky Patel Gran Habano Rocky Patel Renaissance Rocky Patel Thunder by Nimish Rocky Patel Xen by Nish Rocky Patel Fifty Rocky Patel Patel Bros. Next Generation Cargo by Rocky Patel VigilantE by Rocky Patel List of Rocky Patel Private Label Cigars Conuco Cruz Real Gold by Rocky Patel (a Thompson Cigars exclusive) Rocky Patel American Market Selection Rocky Patel Honduran Classic Rocky Patel Cuban Blend Rocky Patel Rosado Rocky Patel Fuma Vibe Vudu Reo Chicago Reserve Torpedo by Rocky Patel Nørding by Rocky Patel for [Eric Nørding Pipemaker] Rocky Patel Ocean Club (a Holts Cigar Company exclusive) Prodigy by Rocky Patel (a BestCigarPrices exclusive) In only 13 years of existence. Check how many of these are still around. "Seasonal" cigars? Really? The "Autumn" collection was so exclusive you can still get them for $5 bucks a stick 8 years later!! How have we all missed out?!?!? If you want to believe that Rocky is somehow buying (from many sources) small batches of the highest quality tobacco for the lowest prices, then leasing rollers and space from Nestor Placensia for pennies on the dollar and passing all the "savings" onto you, feel free. The world won't function without suckers. god damn that's a lot of labels. the worst part of it, its not all of them... after trying several of his sticks, i'm not a fan of his blends. the vintage 1990, decade, and super ligero were okay - by the numbers, he was bound to make something work. 'burn' his lounge in naples, fl is amazing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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