cubans with light wrapper


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Nope! How many blind tastings have you participated in? How about read the statistics of? If I gave you 25 cigars, all different years and brands, all the same size, no bands. Say all PC's. If I spi

Lamar, on 08 Apr 2016 - 7:59 PM, said: Piggy, this is really a fascinating statement, and I'll be honest its made me revisit my thinking over the past few days. You're totally correct about the

I have learnt more from pigfish about cigars than anybody I know. When you listen to what he says and you put it to the test with an open mind and without the fog of myth .. He's always on the money!

Knowing a vendor well enough to to trust his judgement???

Cuban cigars are packaged by color and these days light cigars are a bit of a rarity (from my perspective). Considering the color request and then adding a special flavor is (in my mind) an unreasonable request. Of course, I don't believe in brand profiles.

Ultimately I hope you can get some better answers than mine. Thankfully I like Cuban cigars and the variations that come with them. I see wrapper color as a pretty girl with a sun tan. Fair-skinned or tanned skin, pretty is pretty!

Dare I say that anyone looking for this amount of detail in Cuban cigars in general, is likely dreaming? Okay I will say it!

Sorry to be of so little help! Good luck on your search. Cheers. -Piggy

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Of course, I don't believe in brand profiles.

Wait, you don't believe that Cuban brands have distinct flavor profiles? So you don't think Ramon Allones has a distinct flavor from say... Montecristo???

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Give me a Cohiba, Trinidad, Montecristo, QdO or PL with a Colorado, or lighter, wrapper with a nice sheen and I am a happy man. Maduro(ish) wrappers do taste different than light wrappers. They impart more flavors and change the smoking experience. Some people dig this and some don't. I personally like dark wrappers on some cigars and not others. Brand profiles or not this is my experience with Cuban cigars over the last 6+ years I have been smoking them.

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What recommendations do you guys have for Cuban cigars that have a lighter wrapper, with more honey and vanilla notes?

Aged Cohiba first and foremost. Por Larranaga, Quai d'Orsay are good alternatives.

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DUDE: RGPC! They've got a bunch of chocolate, too (over familiar Cuban earth and twang), but the mixture of all with notable honey and shots of vanilla is why I've been getting slowly hooked on these things! I just got a box that's colorado maduro and while it's very good, I believe these sticks shine with a colorado Claro wrapper. Caveat: they need about 3 years minimum, or at least a bunch of dryboxing.

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DUDE: RGPC! They've got a bunch of chocolate, too (over familiar Cuban earth and twang), but the mixture of all with notable honey and shots of vanilla is why I've been getting slowly hooked on these things! I just got a box that's colorado maduro and while it's very good, I believe these sticks shine with a colorado Claro wrapper. Caveat: they need about 3 years minimum, or at least a bunch of dryboxing.

I agree. Rafael Gonzalez petit coronas with Colorado Claro wrappers. Fantastic cigar. Submit a request to Rob, I'm sure he can find you a box.

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My preference is Claro wrappers across the board, but given your other requirements...

What other light wrapper cigars would you recommend? I didn't mean to say that I'm only looking for that exact flavor profile, just giving examples. I just want to try cigars without the caramelly, coffee flavors found in darker wrappers.
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Personally I have had more memorable, fantastic flavored cigars with light or medium wrappers than with dark. In fact I really don't care for the dark wrappers on most cigars. They tend to have a certain flavor and burning property that I just don't like. I think a lot of that comes down to the darker wrappers being a bit thicker. There have been many boxes of great cigars that I have had ruined by that damned thick wrapper. I can think of some Hoyo DC, Sir Winstons and even Cohibas that just didn't taste right to me with dark wrappers.

If you are looking for a particular flavor then you are probably going to have better luck finding a specific cigar with that flavor (blend) rather than a wrapper color.

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PigFish, aren't some cigars intentially made with lighter wrappers? Even with some variability, the range will be lighter on those. And won't that have an effect on flavor? Now, granted the "honey and vanilla" was too restrictive, i was realy using that as an example of flavors more often noticed in lighter cigars. You don't have a favorite "paler" cigar when you're in the mood?

PS. I'm not saying darker cigars are somehow inferior, i like all shades of the cigar rainbow.

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PigFish, aren't some cigars intentially made with lighter wrappers? Even with some variability, the range will be lighter on those. And won't that have an effect on flavor? Now, granted the "honey and vanilla" was too restrictive, i was realy using that as an example of flavors more often noticed in lighter cigars. You don't have a favorite "paler" cigar when you're in the mood?

PS. I'm not saying darker cigars are somehow inferior, i like all shades of the cigar rainbow.

This is not a question strictly for me, because I am just one voice. But, I will be happy to answer it (all simply my opinion of course).

The first part of the question you would have to ask those involved in making cigars at Tabacuba. There once was (for example) a QdO coronas claro. Somehow the claro got dropped.

With no offense intended, I think the Cuban cigar industry just got lazy. Ultimately, they wanted to put the best quality wrappers (as in looks) on any cigar that made money so they dropped the shade variation and labeling. If you are going to label shades, you are ultimately going to increase the price of the cigars as the labels require money, and the collating of "specific" shades to a box will likely take up additional resources. The greater industry does it, well, I think because the Cubans stopped doing it, and there is competition between the Cuban and NC cigar world.

Now my preference is to lighter cigars. I have always liked them. I just like the looks of them. But I must say that I have always liked the mottled colorado look and red tint cigars. It is just a matter of taste (ocular).

As far as taste is concerned, I don't think it matters much, and this is where the arguments begin. One then has to consider the role of the wrapper. I think in the industry today it is much like the box. It is not super tobacco, that would be the ligero and seco, the flavorful yet potentially ugly stuff. If one wishes to flavor the wrapping, they can do it at a reduced cost to sorting and selecting "quality" looking leaves by choosing the correct binder. As a side note, I have some very old articles on Cuban cigars noting that at that time, no binder was even used! A side note...

So therefore when one has to consider the cost of materials and their scarcity, the wrappers being a ubiquitous problem with the Cuban cigar industry, especially as the cigars grow larger, it makes sense (to me anyway) that one would attempt to rely on wrappers for as little as possible. They are by nature designed to please the eye and that is clear even in Habanos literature. Why then would you rely on them to flavor a cigar and therefore limit cigar production even further? I just don't think that they are really a consideration for flavor...

Now onto some facts for some of those that quantify things, like I do. I have taken cigars that I was smoking and started pulling off the wrapper. I have seen no difference in flavor. Some claim differently. So that is subjective.

What is objective is the weight of the wrapper, about 2 to 3 percent on average of the cigar. How do I know this? Well, I have access to a precision scale, more than one actually, and I have undressed more than one cigar to find out.

So what you must do is test this for yourself, then ask the quantitative questions, and then look at the problem of making cigars from and industrial perspective. It is plain to me that the wrapper is of little importance beyond looks.

One last comment. The looks of the cigar are important but not enough that would make the Cubans reject a lot of ugly cigars. Just look at a lot of them compared to those from the NC cigar world. Pretty shabby! BUT, they do spend plenty on the boxes and bands. Stuffing only 10 cigars in a box is an example where the box, when all the aspects are counted, likely actually costs more than the cigars inside! I do believe that Tabacuba spends more on the boxes than the cigars themselves in many cases.

I don't think that his is unusual. Frankly I will bet that the bottle cost more than the water in bottled water... I all also wager that the bottle costs more than many of the ingredients inside them, in many packaged commodities. There is likely very little difference in actual cost between a 1 liter and a 2 liter bottle of soft drinks. That is why one does not cost twice the other. The process gets more efficient (costs less) when you bottle more rather than less per container. They don't exactly bring one barrel of oil at a time from overseas do they?

It is the ligero and seco that predominantly flavor cigars. Their impact on the overall flavor of a cigar is what is most important. Even dead cigars have a wrapper. They are dead because the roller ran out of an internal ingredient and does not want to get punished for misusing his ingredients and kept rolling anyway!!! He/she forgets the wrapper, well he gets fired! The guts, well no one knows until it is smoked and tunnels and tastes like smoking a wrapper!

-Piggy

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I have learnt more from pigfish about cigars than anybody I know.

When you listen to what he says and you put it to the test with an open mind and without the fog of myth .. He's always on the money!

You know mate, that is one of the damned nicest things that someone has said about me in a long time. It is not that folks don't (sometimes) agree with me and complement me, all of which I genuinely appreciate, but somehow this, your quote, just hit me... I am truly honored and appreciate the complement. That is very generous of you to take the time and write that.

THANK YOU...

I will leave you and the rest of the community with this and one caveat. I hope that people learn from me what there is to learn. While I am very opinionated and always think I am right (LOL), I always try to encourage others to think for themselves and make up their own minds about cigars. If there is one thing I wish I could teach everyone about cigars, it is that there are no expert smokers, trust your own judgment and smoke what you like to smoke. Don't rely on self-proclaimed experts.

Cigars, like life itself, are not things you want to experience via proxy.

Thank you very much again! -Ray

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