best ever league halfbacks

[Ken Gargett]

"best ever" discussions are always useless and will never resolve anything (unless you have someone like bradman) but also good fun.

i have had endless such debates with mates (amazing how often it splits on state, national or club biases).

best wallaby rugby 5/8 always a good one. the deluded down south have long perpetuated a myth that mark ella was some sort of rugby god. spare me, he was good but lynagh and mclean were both far superior players.

but this was not to discuss that and if you think it is sacrilegious for anyone to harbour the slightest doubt re ella, in my experience, that is nothing compared to the bile that is directed at anyone who (correctly) suggests that the great wally lewis was the best rugby league player of all time, ahead of johns (as good as johns was).

so imagine what suggesting johns is not even the best half back will bring forth (by the way, the author is a nsw-man).

personally, hard to split them - both superb players - but if i had to have someone play for my life, i'd go thurston by the thinnest of whiskers.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/04/14/is-thurston-the-greatest-rugby-league-halfback/

[Jeremy Festa]

Greg Alexander for me.

[Guest rob]

Ricky Stuart for me

[partriar]

Ricky Stuart for me

Well clearly your a NSW man, nobody else would put him in the same conversation with Lewis, Thurston, Lockyer, John's.

I wouldnt say Lewis which is blasphemy for a Queenslander, it pains me to say but Andrew John's was simply brilliant. Well deserved on being an 'immortal'. I also have a massive soft spot for Lockyer but im very bias, knowing him personally and being a bronco's supported.

[partriar]

Nah just poking fun Rob, to be honest im too young to have seen him play.

[Overproof]

I also have a massive soft spot for Lockyer but im very bias, knowing him personally and being a bronco's supported.

Great Fullback - 5/8..

[Overproof]

Thurston all day.

In 10 years time I might say Ben Hunt or Daly Cherry-Evans

[partriar]

Thurston all day.

In 10 years time I might say Ben Hunt or Daly Cherry-Evans

Whilst i think extremely highly of Ben Hunt im not convince he can reach those heights of Thurston. I would love to be proved wrong though.

[Guest rob]

Well clearly your a NSW man

Nope.

But the reason I rate him, is that as far as half backs go - setting play up, redirecting play, etc.... he was amazing. Between Lewis, Sterling and Stuart - I chose Stuart, because he delivered every single game. It was a coin flip between Lewis and Stuart for me. And besides, Lewis was a 5/8.

Johns on the other hand was the best individual player I have seen. Able to steamroll a game individually. He could have done that from any position he played in the backs.

[Guest rob]

Ignore double post

[Overproof]

Whilst i think extremely highly of Ben Hunt im not convince he can reach those heights of Thurston. I would love to be proved wrong though.

His defense needs improvement.

[Ken Gargett]

Nope.

But the reason I rate him, is that as far as half backs go - setting play up, redirecting play, etc.... he was amazing. Between Lewis, Sterling and Stuart - I chose Stuart, because he delivered every single game. It was a coin flip between Lewis and Stuart for me. And besides, Lewis was a 5/8.

Johns on the other hand was the best individual player I have seen. Able to steamroll a game individually. He could have done that from any position he played in the backs.

debate is half backs, so ruling out lewis and lockyer.

way too soon to discuss dce in this, and absurdly early to discuss hunt - the bloke has had one good year but not even played an origin. there'd be 30 halves more deserving of consideration than hunt.

but, with the greatest respect, suggesting ricky stuart was a better player than lewis would stun even sticky himself. you are old enough to have seen a chunk of lewis, and so should know better, but perhaps not all?

in all seriousness, they are not even in the same conversation. there is not an aspect of the game in which lewis was not a superior player - not to bag stuart who was a wonderful player. but hardly that once a generation, daylight second, player that was wally lewis.

[Ken Gargett]

Nope.

But the reason I rate him, is that as far as half backs go - setting play up, redirecting play, etc.... he was amazing. Between Lewis, Sterling and Stuart - I chose Stuart, because he delivered every single game. It was a coin flip between Lewis and Stuart for me. And besides, Lewis was a 5/8.

Johns on the other hand was the best individual player I have seen. Able to steamroll a game individually. He could have done that from any position he played in the backs.

ah, just dawned on me. you are from canberra. hence the sticky-love.

i did say it was amazing how often these things boiled down to club loyalties, as opposed to the stone cold, hard facts we qlders use for an argument.

[JohnS]

In late 2007 the Australian Rugby League and National Rugby League gathered 130 experts to come up with Australian Rugby League's 100 players. From this list the follwoing were halfbacks:

• Joe Busch
• Jim Craig
• Arthur Halloway
• Keith Holman
• Andrew Johns
• Allan Langer
• Chris McKivat
• Steve Mortimer
• Barry Muir
• Tommy Raudonikis
• Billy Smith
• Peter Sterling
• Arthur Summons
• Viv Thicknesse
• Duncan Thompson

Johnathan Thurston's career has certainly taken off since this time, how did Canterbury opt for Braith Anasta and let him go in 2005? Andrew Johns is one of eight immortals of the game, so we need to re-classify Thurston's career in respect of this. If Thurston is better than Johns (I would argue equal, and I'm not sitting on the fence here), then he must be considered as the next immortal, and that would be a huge call (as it was for Johns' inclusion).

[Jeremy Festa]

Can someone compile the stats on this?

I dare say, no half back will beat Brandy!

[soutso]

The best halfback I've ever seen? It's a tie between Allan Langer and JT. Both have been massive influences for winning SOO matches for Qld. I'm a Blue.... must call it as I see it.

[El Presidente]

Andrew Johns to me was the finest Rugby League player I have witnessed alongside Wally Lewis (not a halfback obviously). I couldn't split them for their influence on a game....and yes, johns complete dominance came later in the second half of his career.

Really the only NSW player I feared in the opposition. He could rally troops, turn a game, defend like a forward, kick, pass and read a game like a magician.

Outside of Rep football, he made a good but not great Newcastle team look like world beaters. If JT can do that consistently with the Cowboys, his stocks will rise in the company below.

So for halfbacks.

Johns

Langer

Sterling

JT yet to be classified but he is in the mix.

[Ken Gargett]

Andrew Johns to me was the finest Rugby League player I have witnessed alongside Wally Lewis (not a halfback obviously). I couldn't split them for their influence on a game....and yes, johns complete dominance came later in the second half of his career.

Really the only NSW player I feared in the opposition. He could rally troops, turn a game, defend like a forward, kick, pass and read a game like a magician.

Outside of Rep football, he made a good but not great Newcastle team look like world beaters. If JT can do that consistently with the Cowboys, his stocks will rise in the company below.

So for halfbacks.

Johns

Langer

Sterling

JT yet to be classified but he is in the mix.

sometimes i forget that you are younger than i think, even if you do act much younger than you really are. but even as a callow youth, you must have seen enough of lewis? understandably, at 12 or 13 or whatever, you may not have appreciated the finer points of his game (ask mark geyer).

johns - no argument a truly wonderful player but it was the big nsw push that dubbed him an immortal and there were others perhaps, at the very least as deserving - dominated one or two series in origin. with lewis, there was never any doubt that he was the immortal of his generation.

wally lewis dominated a decade. for an entire decade at the toughest level of sport imaginable, he stood head and shoulders above everyone else - teammates, opposition. the way his team lifted and the opposition sagged as he came on to a field is something i've never seen from any other player. in any other sport.

remember that johns failed to make the nsw team in two series during the middle of his career.

if you look at origin as the pinnacle (sorry for those who think internationals eclipse them but you are wrong), man of the match awards (not the be all and end all but not a bad indicator).

stuart - 3 (brandy zero).

and then it gets unhelpful as sterling, johns, thurston, langer all on four (one of sterlo's came from the giggle game they played in california).

lewis won 8. and if we are realistic, he probably should have won double that but it all got a bit embarrassing giving it to him time after time. he played 31 games over 12 years and i believe he was captain for 30 of them. not bad for a 21 year old.

[Ken Gargett]

the one area johns exceeded the king was kicking. lewis was good. johns sensational. and then his goal kicking.

[El Presidente]

Ken, watched all of Walley's career from the time he was tearing up my club side Brothers with Valleys.

Remarkable player. Brilliant. The top two I have ever seen. Hardly a slight!

Johns didn't have poor stats:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Johns

I would love to see a Stat for try assists on Johns as he put a hell of a lot of players through holes that no body else could have (excluding lewis).

[Ken Gargett]

Ken, watched all of Walley's career from the time he was tearing up my club side Brothers with Valleys.

Remarkable player. Brilliant. The top two I have ever seen. Hardly a slight!

Johns didn't have poor stats:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Johns

I would love to see a Stat for try assists on Johns as he put a hell of a lot of players through holes that no body else could have (excluding lewis).

apparently not enough of his career to know how to spell his name!

i was a massive valleys fan as a kid, right through. the mighty diehards. talk to steele about his dad, mick. now there was a hero. was it '73 when alan mills stepped the entire brothers side to win the grand final?

but in all seriousness, two truly brilliant players without any question. if we'd never seen lewis, i'm sure johns would be the clear favourite for best ever.

but if you have to go with one, lewis is clearly the player that stands above all others.

[benigma]

Hard to go past Joey, but Thurston has been playing some amazing football for a long time now.

As others have said though, the real test is the extent they were able to carry their teams. Johns won two premiership with some average teammates meanwhile Thurston has just the one grand final loss with the cowboys.

I don't think you will find a better kicker under pressure either. I know Thurston isn't a 100% goal kicker but fair dinkum I'm buggered if I can recall ever seeing him miss one!

[Ken Gargett]

seems we are not the only ones discussing this.

ryan girdler has a view. remember that this is a bloke who played with johns at newcastle, nsw and australia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vPM7WOffVg

[bummy]

X2

Andrew Johns to me was the finest Rugby League player I have witnessed alongside Wally Lewis (not a halfback obviously). I couldn't split them for their influence on a game....and yes, johns complete dominance came later in the second half of his career.

Really the only NSW player I feared in the opposition. He could rally troops, turn a game, defend like a forward, kick, pass and read a game like a magician.

Outside of Rep football, he made a good but not great Newcastle team look like world beaters. If JT can do that consistently with the Cowboys, his stocks will rise in the company below.

So for halfbacks.

Johns

Langer

Sterling

JT yet to be classified but he is in the mix.

[madbunny]

growing up in the 80's hated parra but have to say sterling was a freak better than johns langer stuart jt cronk.who has the most grand final wins ?not jt from the bench 1.2 kind of for drugo johns .langer 3/4 ?.and the sook start 2/3 ?