only one torcedor per box

[straizor]

smoked through some of the connie A. had some stellar ones and some with construction flaws. its been 50/50 so far, in weather i should buy a box or not.

our round discussed this matter rather intensly and it got very heated at some point. as, all of you know, it goes some times.

then this was thrown in. what if every rolled cigar of one torcedor, whatever he's working on on that day, gets separately use for each box? not mixing the produced rolles of other torcedors together.

everybody knows that our precious cigars go through alot of hands and, theoretically speaking, it could happen that in some boxes there are 25/50 different cigars from different rolles in it.

i heard that some NC brand do this, where the torcedore signs the box he rolled the cigars for. and being realistic, i know that it can't work out that great if you have that many cigars going out in to regular production. But, and here's the but.

why not do this with the special released cigars? cigars which are only produced in small quantities. which we, in the end, pay more for.

[Pedro2486]

3, 2, 1, Ken.....?

I agree with the idea in theory: the ones in the know ie. us will get the boxes from the rollers we want and the others will still be sold as they are now ie. mostly travel and duty free.

In reality, who knows how well it'll work

[Carpenter69]

I like the idea. I know La Palina does this with the Goldie's. Only 1 torcedor rolls all the cigars for the Goldie's. I met her at Nat Sherman's in Manhattan. Truly an amazing job this woman does. Quite often I find myself cursing a plugged cigar, but not often enough praising a well rolled cigar. Spoiled American here.

[Smallclub]

Several makers in Dom Rep and Honduras do this (ST Dupont, maybe Dunhill), but it won't happen in Cuba…

[Ryan]

It happens sometimes, rarely, with Habanos.

One roller, Norma Fernandez Sastre, rolled all of the original 2006 Behikes.

Juramys Valdes from Partagas, has rolled all of Hunter and Frankau's upcoming 225th anniversary Ramon Allones.

I'm sure if there haven't been other examples, there will, people like that stuff, the personal touch.

Cuba, being Cuba, traditionally suppressed the notion of individual effort and merit but that does seem to be changing. In the tobacco industry that change possibly started with Alejandro Robaina, the first celebrity grower.

[mk05]

It is exercising risk management.

[oliverdst]

Maybe the top rollers could do that otherwise I woudn't like to risk to have a full box of a bad roller.

[straizor]

It happens sometimes, rarely, with Habanos.

One roller, Norma Fernandez Sastre, rolled all of the original 2006 Behikes.

Juramys Valdes from Partagas, has rolled all of Hunter and Frankau's upcoming 225th anniversary Ramon Allones.

I'm sure if there haven't been other examples, there will, people like that stuff, the personal touch.

Cuba, being Cuba, traditionally suppressed the notion of individual effort and merit but that does seem to be changing. In the tobacco industry that change possibly started with Alejandro Robaina, the first celebrity grower.

why not nurture that individual effort, i don't get it. change seems to be happening and hopefully to the possitiv for all.

[Ryan]

I don't think it's really much of a risk.

It's not like a roller would roll a box of cigars and then they get shipped, goodbye.

They would still go through the same quality control, and there is quality control.

Also, there's nothing preventing a good roller having a bad day or rolling the occasional plugged or underfilled cigar. It happens.

[straizor]

Maybe the top rollers could do that otherwise I woudn't like to risk to have a full box of a bad roller.

technically they all passed the torcedore school, but i konw what you mean.

i would use the top rollers for said special releases

[straizor]

I don't think it's really much of a risk.

It's not like a roller would roll a box of cigars and then they get shipped, goodbye.

They would still go through the same quality control, and there is quality control.

Also, there's nothing preventing a good roller having a bad day or rolling the occasional plugged or underfilled cigar. It happens.

x2

[Ryan]

why not nurture that individual effort, i don't get it.

Communism.

Though some things are changing.

[straizor]

Communism.

Though some things are changing.

that the reason why you have to talk behind the curtains if you want some comissioned cigars for example.

[Ryan]

that the reason why you have to talk behind the curtains if you want some comissioned cigars for example.

Nobody gets officially commissioned cigars anymore other than distributers and of those, only the ones part-owned by Habanos, which is most of them. So no more Dunhill, Davidoff, Fox, TB Carlin, Robert Lewis etc.

Now there are regional releases and the odd anniversary thingy.

That could change again, as of this month, foreigners can own property and land in Cuba again, that could be a start of something, maybe.

[mk05]

A) I don't think it's really much of a risk.

It's not like a roller would roll a box of cigars and then they get shipped, goodbye.

They would still go through the same quality control, and there is quality control.

Also, B ) there's nothing preventing a good roller having a bad day or rolling the occasional plugged or underfilled cigar. It happens.

In your argument, B ) intrinsically contradicts A). Cubatabaco assures quality by making sure that a lack of quality of one roller in a box would be picked up by a peer's performance in that same box. Cubatabaco is intrinsically addressing risk by spreading the variance of all cigars rolled, and rollers - called alpha and beta risk.

Going a little further, I'd rather have a whole cab of Lusitanias rolled by Hamlet rather than some barely qualified guy. This intrinsically exposes me to roller risk, but I believe that I will be rewarded vs the peers. Cubatabacco would agree, seeing as the precedence they have set: Behike humidors were rolled by that one person, OR Behike rolled by select few, RA225 by one person, etc.

[straizor]

Nobody gets officially commissioned cigars anymore other than distributers and of those, only the ones part-owned by Habanos, which is most of them. So no more Dunhill, Davidoff, Fox, TB Carlin, Robert Lewis etc.

Now there are regional releases and the odd anniversary thingy.

That could change again, as of this month, foreigners can own property and land in Cuba again, that could be a start of something, maybe.

i was talkin about the custom rolled stuff

but i do get your point.

[Maplepie]

Nobody gets officially commissioned cigars anymore other than distributers and of those, only the ones part-owned by Habanos, which is most of them. So no more Dunhill, Davidoff, Fox, TB Carlin, Robert Lewis etc.

i'm going to have to disagree with you there, Andy...

I personally know a bloke who's commissioned his own a few years back with a huge amount of boxes with his names on it, all Cuban. not sure if he did it himself or if it's just piggybacked off someone else's commission. apparently it's now all he smokes now as hes got boxes upon boxes of them.......

[Ryan]

i'm going to have to disagree with you there, Andy...

I personally know a bloke who's commissioned his own a few years back with a huge amount of boxes with his names on it, all Cuban. not sure if he did it himself or if it's just piggybacked off someone else's commission. apparently it's now all he smokes now as hes got boxes upon boxes of them.......

In that case, if they are produced officially by Habanos, he has more pull than any cigar retailer worldwide.

I'd love to see a picture of a cigar/box.

Are his cigars a different brand/size/blend than regular production or regular production with his name on them?

For example King Juan Carlos of Spain gets/got Cohiba Lanceros with his own bands on them but they are still Cohiba Lanceros. There is no difference in the blend nor are they a unique brand or size.

[Smallclub]

i'm going to have to disagree with you there, Andy...

I personally know a bloke who's commissioned his own a few years back .......

"Officialy"? This is the key word here.

[Maplepie]

"Officialy"? This is the key word here.

Very fair........ need to know basis, naturally. i know very little on them...

Are his cigars a different brand/size/blend than regular production or regular production with his name on them?

Andy, i'll let you even see them in person if i've time... methinks you'd have more to say than most on this

[Maplepie]

Anyways, sorry for the ThreadJacking, Michel

Back on topic, now..........

[Ryan]

In your argument, B ) intrinsically contradicts A). Cubatabaco assures quality by making sure that a lack of quality of one roller in a box would be picked up by a peer's performance in that same box. Cubatabaco is intrinsically addressing risk by spreading the variance of all cigars rolled, and rollers - called alpha and beta risk.

Going a little further, I'd rather have a whole cab of Lusitanias rolled by Hamlet rather than some barely qualified guy. This intrinsically exposes me to roller risk, but I believe that I will be rewarded vs the peers. Cubatabacco would agree, seeing as the precedence they have set: Behike humidors were rolled by that one person, OR Behike rolled by select few, RA225 by one person, etc.

I don't think my arguments are contradictory. All rollers' cigars go through the same quality control i.e. The same percentage of cigars are draw tested etc. in no factory does it happen that roller x's cigar are tested less frequently than roller y's because roller x has more experience.

Cubatobaco encourages quality by encouraging competition between teams of rollers on a floor. Cigars going to the draw testers etc are not labelled by roller but by team (I believe 4 to 6). A team with a higher than expected number of failures will hear about it very quickly.

Cigars from different rollers end up in the same box as lots of rollers roll the same shape on any given day and cigars are sorted for each box primarily on colour.

Of course we would all prefer our cigars to be rolled by a well known roller but I'd be sceptical of the notion that anyone could tell the difference between roller A's cigars and roller B's cigars at 100-120 petit coronas a day. Other than some of the minor flourishes of the dimple pressed into the binder etc.

There might sometimes be a difference from one factory to another, I think that is much more attributable to the rigor of the quality control though.

Have you heard 'officially' that Cubatobaco assures quality by spreading risk between rollers in a box? I've never heard that. It would make sense but I've never heard of that as ever being policy, from people within Cubatabaco/Habanos or people who used to be in either.

I think Habanos have started attaching rollers names to releases now as it's good marketing for high end products, rather than the cigars would be any better than those from dozens of other rollers.

Rolls Royce does it, as does Palio when they ship their cutters. They are selling perceived quality with personal touch.

For example, Hunters got Juramys not because she is better than every other roller in Partagas. They got her because they met her when she toured the UK last year. That's all.

Edit. Having said that, Juramys is lovely, not just in looks and she rolls good cigars.

[Colt45]

Edmundo Dantes Conde 109....

[Ryan]

Edmundo Dantes Conde 109....

For a distributer or a retailer?

Edit When I see Ayala Butifarra Extras, much as I'd welcome them, I'll be convinced.

[straizor]

Anyways, sorry for the ThreadJacking, Michel

Back on topic, now..........

haha