affordable temp-controlled humidor

[corneliusmaximus]

Hi guys. I'm looking for a new humidor, but i live in Los Angeles and temperatures will soon rise into the 80s. I don't want to spend a large amount of money, though, perhaps up to $100 or $150. The capacity does not need to be large - maybe 100 cigars.

[Maplepie]

wine fridges

pretty sure they make compact ones now too..... for $150 at your local stop n shop, bed bath and beyond, or what's it to you, they best even those crappy chinese Cedar humidors for capacity and cost!

[corneliusmaximus]

Would you put a humidor inside that or put the cigars in directly and humidify the whole inside?

[LordAnubis]

You can do both. Logically though, you might as well setup the whole inteernals of the fridge to perform as a humidor.

[PigFish]

A couple of notes here.

Caveats first… All my opinion, but my opinion is based on a lot of wine cooler testing.

Smaller is a bad idea for many reasons. The obvious of course is that you won't get as many cigars in there. The next is a cost per cigar to make the system work. Defining work is a matter of opinion. While it is certainly boastful of me to say that I set the bar for this definition, I will make that claim anyway! Take it for what it is worth. Want proof, do a search of my posts!

Smaller is harder to make work.

These systems, are a first choice for those wishing not to drop a pile on something made by one of the well known makers. That is what got me into them in the first place. To think you will get one to function (at my level) for a few hundred dollars is a pipe dream! Try all you want, but if you decide to be objective and get a data logger you will find that what you see and what exists are not anywhere near the same!

I am not saying not to try… that is up to you! What I am saying is that if you are going to attempt to use the cooler with its integrated controls, and little interior modification, be prepared for disappointment.

Now if you are not going to plug it in, and just use it as an sealed box, well… that is a different story! They do look better than ice chests, but when unplugged certainly don't work any better.

If you are on this kind of budget, just get an ice chest and emulate those that use these types of humidors.

Just my 2cts. -the Pig

[mk05]

If you have central air that maintains temperature well, you are halfway there. Get yourself some ziplocks or better yet, a vacuum sealer for a closed environment.

pv=nrt

[PigFish]

I know that you guys must be sick of my data logging by now, but they do tell a story. Consider what you see below.

I posted this one as an indication of what is going on in a wine cooler humidor at different locations.

When you design a humidor with cooling you have to consider what the cooler is doing to the air temperature and the water content at the evaporator coil (cooling point) or you could be putting your cigars next to a cold, wet mess by shear accident! That crazy baby blue line is the evap. coil. Do you really want your cigars parked next to that?

The chart shows several measurements of a wine cooler humidor, all chronologically aligned at different physical locations in the cooler. The key is the fat black line. That is the temperature that the cigars see! The cigars should never see the freezing temperature of the evaporator coil.

Cheers! -Piggy

[corneliusmaximus]

I ended up ordering the NewAir AW-181E 18 Bottle. Hopefully big enough for 100 or so cigars (not that I have this many yet, but optimistic). Also purchased 1 pound of Heartfelt beads. Whatchu think, passable set-up?

[PigFish]

I have been thinking of ways to make some of these projects work like you have suggested. I really hate to be a spoiler, but I cannot see it working.

Orion (on this site) runs a setup where the condensate runs from his TE cooler (I am pretty sure that he uses a TE) into a vessel of beads therefore capturing and recycling all the condensed water in the system. The idea is that there is a fixed amount of water in the system at any given time and once it is in balance, if you don't gain or lose water, it stabilizes eventually.

You might ask him what he is doing… I could have the analysis of his project all wrong. He is the guy to ask.

I have been toying with the idea of getting a TE cooler for business reasons to see if and how I can make them work (prove they work). I just have not had the time.

If I were sharing ideas for inexpensive processes, I would try running the cooler via pulse width modulation or some other means to limit the temperature of the TE plate to that of a temperature above the dew point.

The theory, and I don't know if you can actually get it to work, would be to use a controller to demand the cooler to run. Once running, a recycle relay could be used to switch the cooler power on and off in a cycle to reduce the ability of the cooler to cool beyond (below) the dew point. This would (theoretically) get the cooler running almost all the time but would keep it from over cooling and stripping water from the humidor space.

I am just thinking out loud here!!! Take it for what it is worth… All of my ideas sound good to me! That is until I build some of them and data log them just to find them to be total failures! Believe me when I tell you. Literally a hundred of my 'great' ideas have crashed and burned. You simply don't know until you try!!!

Here is to trying!

Best of luck on your project! -the Pig

[corneliusmaximus]

PigFish, so to clarify: you think that placing my cigars in this 18 bottle cooler would be bad for cigars because of temperature variability? What if I'm careful about where I place them (away from the coils)?

[PigFish]

Corny…

Don't go nuts waiting for a reply. I am not going to answer you directly, I am no wizard, but I have been to a few magic shows! I am running you a simulation. I will allow the simulation to explain and clarify what I am saying.

When I say simulation, I mean real time events in one of my humidors. Lets both see what happens, aye??

Back at you as soon as the point can be made. -P

[Guyman1966]

If you are on this kind of budget, just get an ice chest and emulate those that use these types of humidors.

Just my 2cts. -the Pig

excellent advice

[PigFish]

PigFish, so to clarify: you think that placing my cigars in this 18 bottle cooler would be bad for cigars because of temperature variability? What if I'm careful about where I place them (away from the coils)?

First a reply to this. I am not going to speculate what is bad for cigars. You know what is bad for cigars don't you (this is retorical)? Of course you do, you don't need to ask me. I don't answer questions that people already know! Is leaving your cigars on the dashboard of your truck bad for them? I suppose it depends on the conditions of your dashboard and when you are planning to smoke them!!

I never really address aging and speculative problems with cigars. What I do address is the fact that storing them in consistent conditions (based in personal beliefs and tastes) is an established norm. This means that regardless of ones belief in settings, most certainly believe that stability of those settings is a positive environment.

I am not going to tell you what will ruin your cigars. Not because I am being an ass about it. It is because I don't know the answer. I cannot prove that a certain temperature, or rH, or cycle rate, or amplitude exposure is good or bad for them over time. I am a man of FAITH. I therefore BELIEVE that I have the answers, but I cannot prove by belief! I will postulate, pontificate and proofer, but I cannot prove what is good or bad for your cigars!!!

I offer ideas. I can prove some of the ideas work or don't work with a data logger. I am friggin' good at making controlled humidors. I am not a cigar guru! You need to consult a guru for an answer about what is good or bad for cigars. Most gurus will be happy to answer, even when they don't know the answer themselves!

Cheers. -P

[PigFish]

*************************************************

Purpose:

To simulate a simple cooled humidor system with active refrigeration and passive humidification.

The Problems:

I cannot ‘un’-design my system for demonstration purposes, so the simulation is neither really accurate nor fair. Furthermore, the conditions did not exist in the Lab where the cooling would be continuously called up, as it would be under normal conditions.

On a personal note, I don’t really get kicks out of disproving something verses proving something. I enjoy demonstrating my projects but I have little motivation to spend a lot of time demonstrating what I already know does not work. This type of work appears egotistical to me and not really productive. Hopefully, since the question was asked regarding this type of storage, someone will benefit from the demonstration.

This may not fairly emulate those systems that others use that they claim success with. For information on those exact systems and specifications one would have to consult those more familiar.

The Procedure:

A number of steps were taken to very quickly convert one of my projects to emulate that of an active cooler with passive (bead and content driven) humidification. In order to accomplish this in the Lab, at the time only about 69˚F, I needed first to show what a prolonged refrigeration cycle looked like. I attempted to note on the chart, what the keen observer should note about the process.

First was to change some program parameters. It was late and I cheated a lot here.

The primary problem with the pre-configured temperature controller is based around activation logic. I have written a piece on the forum titled, “Understanding Activation Logic,” and one should refer to that for further reference.

I was not prepared for this simulation to run all night. I needed to attempt it, and then reset the humidor for normal use. As a result I adjusted my set point down 1 point from its previous and stable temperature. This 1 point adjustment is typically only half the size of the ‘more accurate’ activation logic parameters that can be expected with one of these coolers as they come from the maker. In other words, by only using 1 point, I sped up the test. By doing so, I also made the system look better than it really should look!

I did not change my activation logic! What this means is that when the system retriggered, it would use the new set point but return to my activation logic design and not fully recycle to the extent a stock system would recycle. In essence, I derived a one-cycle ‘blip’ just to demonstrate.

I shut off the system and changed the set point. I killed the circulation fans and unified fan control. I killed the heater and the humidifier. What you see is the active drive to cool 1dF in cool (below normal) conditions and the act of passive regeneration of water into the system “space.”

Notice the deep cooling cycle and the overshoot on temperature. This can only be cleaned up with good controls.

The deep dehydration is also a problem. While one fast dip and return is not abnormal this shows the slow return of the area surrounding the sensor. The rest of the humidor is all over the place. There are no homogenous conditions in the humidor interior at this point. Readings around the humidor are all over the place!

The rH cycle amplitude is deep but since this was only a 1 point movement simulation, imagine what a 2 point differential would look like! Again, the depth is not really the problem, it is the cycle period that represents instability here.

Now image that the humidor were placed in a 74dF ambient. Imagine what these cycles would look like if the system were running twice as long once an hour. A rather severe amplitude saw tooth wave would appear for both temperature and rH. These cycles, while they are present in any controlled humidor have to be judged by their amplitude and cycle length as well as their adherence to the set point.

Does it look like this system is working?

Thanks for reading!

-Mr. Piggy