The Wine Magician

[Ken Gargett]

Indeed. My two faves were actually 2002, forgot the missus picked the 2008. Good to know about the '08. I am familiar with 2002. Was telling Rob, my wife is compiling a champagne collection to rival my selfish cigar collection. All very childish. Borne from spite. And she is blinded by the fact that I also benefit from this endeavor of hers. I am 100% onboard!

It was Nesh we got them from!

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if your wife if a champers fan, and if she has not done so already, sign her up for bernadette o'shea's champers classes at the emporium. best present you could give her. she will love it.

[Jeremy Festa]

if your wife if a champers fan, and if she has not done so already, sign her up for bernadette o'shea's champers classes at the emporium. best present you could give her. she will love it.

Yes. We know! Alex and Brent at Emporium have been trying to rope us in for ages.

Next one is on the 21st but we both have something else on. Definitely doing the next round!

My wife is a diagnosed foodie and champers connoisseur!

[fba]

I am afraid though, that biodynamics has itself become a marketing 'point of difference.'

I think most of people just don't make the difference between biodynamic and organic (worst in france, becase the shortified word maked everything 'bio').

If someone is relying on heavy chemical to produce wine, then you are quite sure that the entire wineyard is anemic or weak. And that is very interesting, because even if climat is the most proeminent factor to produce quality wine, the quality of the grappe is the second. So it makes perfectly sense that the one who try to get the stronger and the healthiest wineyard produce a high quality wine.

After that, I must recongnize that some are just using this as a selling point and some are using it effectively.

After all, the movie "Mondovino"and the interview of Suckling is so unreal that this movie on biodynamic would appears to be a scientific demonstration. :-)

[Ken Gargett]

I think most of people just don't make the difference between biodynamic and organic (worst in france, becase the shortified word maked everything 'bio').

If someone is relying on heavy chemical to produce wine, then you are quite sure that the entire wineyard is anemic or weak. And that is very interesting, because even if climat is the most proeminent factor to produce quality wine, the quality of the grappe is the second. So it makes perfectly sense that the one who try to get the stronger and the healthiest wineyard produce a high quality wine.

After that, I must recongnize that some are just using this as a selling point and some are using it effectively.

After all, the movie "Mondovino"and the interview of Suckling is so unreal that this movie on biodynamic would appears to be a scientific demonstration. :-)

completely agree re the comments on heavy chemicals but i struggle far more with the thoughts that this is a marketing thing. if you look at the guys doing it, the vast majority have far less trouble selling wine than most wineries. and that pre-dates BDs.

it is crazy to think someone like de villaine is doing this for marketing. the bloke could sell his wines 10, perhaps 20, times over, and his top wines bring close to $10k a bottle. doesn't really need to look for ways to promote the wines.

[Ken Gargett]

Had my wife dig them out and send a picture!

Your thoughts?

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for brizzy people, nesh is doing a tasting at craft wines at red hill this arvo.

[Jeremy Festa]

for brizzy people, nesh is doing a tasting at craft wines at red hill this arvo.

Arrrgh! Busy!

Have tried quite a few!

Worth going if ya can people!

[Ken Gargett]

here is a recent article i found which looks at both sides.

some of this is crap - this concept that france has terroir and the rest of the world just make it up. such nonsense. also, the monks from a thousand years ago could not have given a toss if different plots gave different wines. they went single variety to let the earth speak to the word of god and easier if not confusing the message with blends.

French wine-makers turn to mystic methods

A growing number of wine producers in France are embracing biodynamic viticulture - a mix of astrology and Chinese medicine methods - to enrich both their soil and their wine. But does this really mean better wine?

On Bernard Duseigneur's vineyard at Saint-Laurent-les-Arbres in the heart of Côte-du-Rhône country, the grape harvest is about to begin.

Popping a couple of grapes into his mouth, this ex-London banker who returned to the family business checks to see if the fruit is ripe. But Duseigneur has also been consulting an astrological calendar to see that tomorrow is the right day to start harvesting. His is among France's burgeoning "biodynamic" vineyards.

"It's good to be organic, because you don't have to breathe in chemicals!" said Duseigneur. "But as a wine-lover, organic farming doesn't bring any answers about the quality of the wine," he added.

The quality of wine, Duseigneur believes, rather comes from "reconciling the wine-maker, the vine-grower and his land" through principles written out by the German philosopher, educationalist and mystic Rudolph Steiner around a century ago.

Biodynamic agriculture does mean organic agriculture (not using pesticides, fungicides and chemical fertilizers). But it also takes into account the movement of the moon and stars, and applies preventive "treatments" to the land - much in tradition of Chinese medicine, Duseigneur said.

Focus on soil

The aim is to enrich the soil. Biodynamic farmers want their soil to have as much life as possible, and foster a thriving ecosystem using insects, microorganisms, weeds, and worms to aerate the soil. According to biodynamic vine growers, this allows the vines' roots to grow in the finest, purest soil possible.

Bernard Duseigneur gave up banking for biodynamics

This idea appeals to French wine-makers in particular. While wine-makers in California, Australia or South Africa believe their own work produces great wine, in France, wine has long been about bringing out the character of what the French call the "terroir" - the unique soil and climate of a particular location.

"In Burgundy," said Duseigneur, "the monks realized a thousand years ago that by using just one grape - the pinot noir - they can have very different wine, even though the plots are only a couple of hundred yards apart." This is because of differences in soil, he asserted. "We try to find wine that expresses the unique character of the place."

Improving the soil in a wine nation enamored through terroir is a winning idea, said wine book author, blogger and wine bar ownerOlivier Magny. It explains why biodynamic vine-growing has caught on in France.

"What's going on is a discreet revolution," he said. "More and more people are starting to realize that biodynamic farming leads to livelier soil, more interesting wine and frequently, down the road, higher prices."

Most of the very best wines are biodynamic, he added. "Probably the most expensive wine in the world, Domaine de la Romanée Conti, has been biodynamic for a number of years."

'A lot of hype'

However, while biodynamic certification labels such as Demeter or Biodivin may indicate flavor and quality, consumers shouldn't think this wine is free of chemical additives. In Europe, organic and biodynamic wine-makers are allowed to add sulphur in order to conserve their wine. They almost always do, although often this is less than most of their non-organic competitors.

Wine expert at Olivier Magny at his wine bar in Paris

But with or without chemicals, the idea that the organic or biodynamic label is a gauge of quality has not convinced wine expert Michel Bettane, co-author of the Grand Guide des Vins de France, one of France's most authoritative wine guides.

"There's a lot of hype, a lot of hypocrisy, a lot of marketing, a lot of lying to the consumer," he said. "You can make absolutely great wine with the intelligent use of chemicals, and some of the greatest wines in the world are still made in this way and are no less good because of that," Bettane said. "Vinegar is part of nature, not wine. Wine is part of civilization!"

Bettane is skeptical about some of biodynamic viticulture's more unusual methods. Rudolph Steiner wrote extensive instructions for strange preparations for the soil, apparently without carrying out scientific experiments to see what worked.

In one of Steiner's suggestions, Formula 505, oak bark is chopped in small pieces, placed inside the skull of a domesticated animal, surrounded by peat and buried in earth in a place where lots of rain water runs past it.

Using what works

Back in the Côte-du-Rhône, Bernard Duseigneur demonstrates one of his methods: Weeds gathered from around the vines are boiled up like tea and blended in a large machine before the mixture is sprayed back on the vineyard.

"We use really basic principles. It's really common sense actually," Duseigneur said. "It can sound a little bit crazy sometimes," he admitted. "But there is a reason for everything. For instance the cow manure - our famous 500 preparation - is actually super compost."

"And who cares if there is stuff we don't understand," he pointed out: "It works."

Some biodynamic wine-makers do seem to have succeeded in developing a unique taste. And these vine-growers take great care of their soil. In any case, it would be difficult to prove whether this wine better because cow horns have conducted cosmic rays into the vineyard.

[Jeremy Festa]

here is a recent article i found which looks at both sides.

Not a bad read.

This article is probably 3/4 of way between where I am at and the BD winemakers. Towards the winemakers. If you get my drift?

Organics = Great

Biodynamics = Organics (after a bit of dickin' 'round)

No harm in a bit of ritual though! Good for them. If it makes them feel special, then I am all for it. Everyone has to believe in something.

And, yes, I am all for amazing soil.

But if you bring old world vines, out of soil that has been cultivated for millennia, and get it rooted into new world soil (i.e. OZ/NZ) which has been farmed for sweet F.A. in comparison. Then, I really think terroir can take a hike.

Side note:- I loved when Oz Clarke and James May did their little French trip and focussed heavily on the terroir. Was funny!

[Ken Gargett]

But if you bring old world vines, out of soil that has been cultivated for millennia, and get it rooted into new world soil (i.e. OZ/NZ) which has been farmed for sweet F.A. in comparison. Then, I really think terroir can take a hike.

Side note:- I loved when Oz Clarke and James May did their little French trip and focussed heavily on the terroir. Was funny!

we can have some very long chats about terroir. i think much more to it than that.

and remember that the vast majority of of old vines are found in australia and other new world countries. very little of it in france or europe, for that matter. try and find a 100 year old vine in france. fat chance. yet in the barossa, i can take you to vines that have been in their soil for 160+ years.

i know a lot of people liked the oz clarke and james may thing. i really disliked it. if i was oz, i'd have dumped him at the first stop. in fact, i disliked it so much that i can no longer watch 'top gear', which i used to enjoy. i thought james may came across as such a pompous tosser that i can't watch him in anything.

[Jeremy Festa]

we can have some very long chats about terroir. i think much more to it than that.

and remember that the vast majority of of old vines are found in australia and other new world countries. very little of it in france or europe, for that matter. try and find a 100 year old vine in france. fat chance. yet in the barossa, i can take you to vines that have been in their soil for 160+ years.

i know a lot of people liked the oz clarke and james may thing. i really disliked it. if i was oz, i'd have dumped him at the first stop. in fact, i disliked it so much that i can no longer watch 'top gear', which i used to enjoy. i thought james may came across as such a pompous tosser that i can't watch him in anything.

Aww Ken, that's the point. It was so infuriating for Oz. James saw the impact he was having, and kept on digging. It's all an act.

He is a lot more genuine in some of the docos he's done. Usually feature on the ABC. As for Top Gear. Never liked it. Jeremy Clarkson is hard to watch.

As for terroir, no doubt, there is more too it. Obviously, highly situational, but the French aren't the only ones with it. My point was, vines did in fact come over to the new world, and were planted into better soil. And some with a similar climate, and slope and aspect etc etc

Don't get me wrong, I love French wine. I love all wine. Hopefully catch you on the deck sometime soon to discuss terroir!

[Tino]

Aww Ken, that's the point. It was so infuriating for Oz. James saw the impact he was having, and kept on digging. It's all an act.

He is a lot more genuine in some of the docos he's done. Usually feature on the ABC. As for Top Gear. Never liked it. Jeremy Clarkson is hard to watch.

As for terroir, no doubt, there is more too it. Obviously, highly situational, but the French aren't the only ones with it. My point was, vines did in fact come over to the new world, and were planted into better soil. And some with a similar climate, and slope and aspect etc etc

Don't get me wrong, I love French wine. I love all wine. Hopefully catch you on the deck sometime soon to discuss terroir!

The definition of better soil is interesting as well, some of the greatest vineyards are planted on the worst soils in terms of fertility etc

[paulF]

The definition of better soil is interesting as well, some of the greatest vineyards are planted on the worst soils in terms of fertility etc

Very true. I find it similar to what grape growers do back at home to stress the vines on purpose in order for the vine to concentrate more on reproducing itself(making grapes) than growing big.

[Ken Gargett]

Very true. I find it similar to what grape growers do back at home to stress the vines on purpose in order for the vine to concentrate more on reproducing itself(making grapes) than growing big.

i think you might find that this concept of deliberate stressing is more some sort of weird marketing thing and that in reality, winemakers don't really do anything like that. certainly soils, though huge variation around the globe, are not always the "best", in the sense of fertile rainforest types.

i think that this concept has come from either a winemaker choosing not to irrigate, as often happens in place in the new world, or not being permitting to do so, as in places in the old world. and some journo or marketing genius has decided that this must be a form of deliberate stress. very few winemakers would not sneak a quick drink to the vines if they could, if the vines were indeed in strife.

[Tino]

very few winemakers would not sneak a quick drink to the vines if they could, if the vines were indeed in strife.

It's a very happy coincidence that in France the inspectors who attempt to enforce regulations take the whole of August off, when the vines might be most in need of a drink. Have seen plenty of hosepipes in vineyards

[Ken Gargett]

i remember standing in a very famous and quite large french winery, being told that all their wines were non filtered (which we all knew to be a porky). at the time, i was leaning against a stack of bags of Diatomaceous earth that stretched up to the roof and all along the walls of a very large storage room.

i did ask if they had a big swimming pool but that apparently wasn't funny.

[paulF]

Don't know about the marketing part to be but it does seem like a very plausible idea. But back home they do it(stressing plants/trees) all the time with vines,tobacco,olive/almond/fig trees...

It's not just about watering, they usually prune the plant/tree hard, they starve it a little bit(roots go deeper this way), they crowd the plants...Trees and plants do usually emerge stronger after this process if done and timed correctly.

I have no idea if there is any science behind it but from observation, it does seem to work when done in balance of course otherwise the plants/trees will usually get more susceptible to disease and shutting down.