A change to the Washington Redskins name and Logo?

[ptrthgr8]

I find all this PC crap to be annoying as hell. The University of North Dakota is right here in Grand Forks. The school nickname since the beginning was "The Fighting Sioux." It wasn't derogatory, offensive, or a slur. It was intended to honor the warrior spirit and pride of the local Sioux tribes. And then the butthurt NCAA comes along. Long story short, UND no longer has an official team nickname. One of the greatest college hockey traditions in the US and now the NCAA has officially killed it.

I hope the Redskins *never* change the name. Same with the Cleveland Indians, Florida St. Seminoles, Notre Dame Fighting Irish, and any other such team names. Having your team name killed off because some uptight pukes with too much influence really makes you realize that some people should not be sharing our air.

Cheers,

Greg

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

[DrunkenMonkey]

I find all this PC crap to be annoying as hell. The University of North Dakota is right here in Grand Forks. The school nickname since the beginning was "The Fighting Sioux." It wasn't derogatory, offensive, or a slur. It was intended to honor the warrior spirit and pride of the local Sioux tribes. And then the butthurt NCAA comes along. Long story short, UND no longer has an official team nickname. One of the greatest college hockey traditions in the US and now the NCAA has officially killed it.

I hope the Redskins *never* change the name. Same with the Cleveland Indians, Florida St. Seminoles, Notre Dame Fighting Irish, and any other such team names. Having your team name killed off because some uptight pukes with too much influence really makes you realize that some people should not be sharing our air.

Cheers,

Greg

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

In the case of many tribes, they no longer are sharing your air.

[ptrthgr8]

In the case of many tribes, they no longer are sharing your air.

See now, this is where you're showing your ignorance as it relates to the UND issue. If it *were* the local tribes who were all up in arms then *maybe* I would at least acknowledge the problem. But it is in fact a bunch of butthurt lilly white asses - from outside of North Dakota! - who think they can somehow change the past that have provided most of the drive for this PC asshattery.

And since you seem to appeal to the base emotional arguments of the issue, thank you very much for also showing concern for my relatives who were killed at the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Men, women, and children. Killed because they were going to the west coast. Or do you not care about them? Or do you not know about this episode in US history? If not, you should add it to your reading list.

Hmm.

Cheers,

Greg

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

[stogieluver]

Well, this has really been a lot of fun. I think that "other" forum has been hijacked to OZ.

Rob, I know you've been on a nice relaxing few days at the beach. I think it may have slowed the synapses a little.

[Ken Gargett]

largely agree with greg - can't imagine it was ever set up with intentions to insult. no one starts a sporting team and then immediately and deliberately demeans it. quite the contrary.

as to the polls, i have not kept links but i did see them referred to on the skins site in a response to obama so i'm sure you could track them down. and yes, i know how easy it is to manipulate those things.

i've no idea why skins is acceptable but redskins not but if i were synder, i'd be half tempted to go with that.

[Ken Gargett]

God I am glad I started this

this is what happens when tampa bay has a crap season and you try and divert attention..

[DrunkenMonkey]

See now, this is where you're showing your ignorance as it relates to the UND issue. If it *were* the local tribes who were all up in arms then *maybe* I would at least acknowledge the problem. But it is in fact a bunch of butthurt lilly white asses - from outside of North Dakota! - who think they can somehow change the past that have provided most of the drive for this PC asshattery.

And since you seem to appeal to the base emotional arguments of the issue, thank you very much for also showing concern for my relatives who were killed at the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Men, women, and children. Killed because they were going to the west coast. Or do you not care about them? Or do you not know about this episode in US history? If not, you should add it to your reading list.

Hmm.

Cheers,

Greg

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

I wasn't talking about North Dakota. I think there is a big difference between "fighting sioux", "seminoles", and such names, which I don't find offensive, and on the other hand names like "redskins", and of course the Cleveland Indians' mascot, Chief Wahoo, who I defy anyone to explain how it's not insulting. And I'm quite well aware of the history you referenced. What is your point in bringing it up?

[El Presidente]

Well, this has really been a lot of fun. I think that "other" forum has been hijacked to OZ.

Rob, I know you've been on a nice relaxing few days at the beach. I think it may have slowed the synapses a little.

I just asked a simple question?

This is where I get peeved. Having to go back and remove personal attacks, waste time etal.

Some clarification on the issues was all that was needed (both perspectives). No sure why it is impossible by some members to do so here?

[El Presidente]

this is what happens when tampa bay has a crap season and you try and divert attention..

All is normal in Tampa Bay Bucs land ken ....the 2002 Superbowl threw things out of whack for a few years....but we are back to doing what we do best.....Suck

[ptrthgr8]

I just asked a simple question?

This is where I get peeved. Having to go back and remove personal attacks, waste time etal.

Some clarification on the issues was all that was needed (both perspectives). No sure why it is impossible by some members to do so here?

Rob, I'll apologize for allowing my dander to get raised as much as it did. But I won't apologize for my opinion. It really truly sucks to have the traditional nickname of your team killed off by the PC police. The university will survive and the team will always be known as the Fighting Sioux by people locally, but I'm absolutely bitter about the NCAA and their PC friends using their deep pockets to strong arm our school the way they did. Simply because they didn't like our name? If the university would have resisted more than they did (took a few years for everything to happen) the NCAA would have buried the University of North Dakota. So I do tend to bristle a bit when someone else wants to break out the pitchforks and torches to destroy the history and traditions of another school/team. I take it personally because I've had that shoved down my throat and it isn't pleasant.

Greg

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

[SCgarman]

Greg don't worry . Dan Snyder will not give in . Like I stated he is young brash and very rich. The Redskins name is here to stay regardless of what our fearless President says or what any small minority of native American Indians think. Our country has much bigger issues to deal with right now such as the govt shutdown and all the drama relating to it. We are a country of major dysfunction at the moment. Enjoy the NFL for the escape it provides.

[Ken Gargett]

All is normal in Tampa Bay Bucs land ken ....the 2002 Superbowl threw things out of whack for a few years....but we are back to doing what we do best.....Suck

you do realise that in the last two decades, the redskins/skins/team based in the DC region (give or take), have beaten the bucs at one thing? they suck even more. at least you have won a bowl. and what is worse, we were once a proud and feared footy team. the way things are going, we'll have to change the name to 'perennial losers'.

still, cowgirls next week and if we beat them, all is forgiven. especially in dallas.

[El Presidente]

Greg

Reasoned Opinion is a beautiful thing. I enjoy the enlightened nature of discussion as it improves my understanding on a topic.

However stating ones opinion in a manner that is enlightening and yet not offensive appears to be a lost art in society.

Some of us should rediscover that art.

[Fuzz]

Greg, don't forget that you may have to change the name of your favourite hockey team... else you get prudes all riled up, you know, for the sexual connotations...

[Paul3]

Just......wow (to quote my teenage daughter). And I thought the PC had peaked when Nike was accused of producing a racist shoe.

[ptrthgr8]

Greg

Reasoned Opinion is a beautiful thing. I enjoy the enlightened nature of discussion as it improves my understanding on a topic.

However stating ones opinion in a manner that is enlightening and yet not offensive appears to be a lost art in society.

Some of us should rediscover that art.

Agreed.. to a point. It's challenging to use "reasoned opinion" when the nature of the issue is essentially irrational and emotionally motivated. We not talking about an issue that's proven or disproven by metrics, statistics, or facts. It's not an objective discussion. We're talking about an issue where the proponents of discontinuing whichever team name largely resort to emotionally charged arguments as we've seen in this thread.

And it's much easier to sit back and say "Hey, we need to be more polite about this whole thing" when it hasn't personally impacted you in some manner. I can't easily divest myself from the subjectivity of this particular issue because I've seen first hand how vicious the PC crowd can be. They're not at all unlike the anti tobacco crowd in that regard.

But I shall endeavor to be better about it in the future. I promise.

Cheers,

Greg

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

[khomeinist]

Clearly 'Redskins' is offensive to many. Whether it not you care after honest reflection is your prerogative.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_removal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_(slang)

Edit. Slang link works with proper parentheses.

[Fuzz]

In all honesty, this PC thing is getting out of hand. Terms can change their meaning as time passes. Ask anyone what "wog" means in Australia. At one time in our past, it was a derogatory term, nowadays Greeks use the term in a more positive light to assert their ethnic pride.

Is the name "Redskins" used in the modern era in a positive or negative light? Yes, if we do not remember the past we are bound to repeat it, but we must also be able to forgive and let go to move beyond.

I asked a friend last night what he thought the team name meant to him (he does not follow NFL and has no clue about the historical term). He thought that the team name was honoring and linking it to the Native Americans. Just like the Greeks here in Aus, Native Americans should take the ownership of the term and turn it into a positive light.

[Ken Gargett]

In all honesty, this PC thing is getting out of hand. Terms can change their meaning as time passes. Ask anyone what "wog" means in Australia. At one time in our past, it was a derogatory term, nowadays Greeks use the term in a more positive light to assert their ethnic pride.

Is the name "Redskins" used in the modern era in a positive or negative light? Yes, if we do not remember the past we are bound to repeat it, but we must also be able to forgive and let go to move beyond.

I asked a friend last night what he thought the team name meant to him (he does not follow NFL and has no clue about the historical term). He thought that the team name was honoring and linking it to the Native Americans. Just like the Greeks here in Aus, Native Americans should take the ownership of the term and turn it into a positive light.

well said, fuzz!

[Skyfall]

It's not going to change nor should it. Most actual NFL fans either don't find it offensive or don't care. You need to take the audience into consideration, most of the people in the news bitching and moaning aren't even football fans, in my opinion, their opinion should hold no weight.

Secondly, If I see Obama on TV one more time talking about this issue, instead of fixing actual important things, like making sure spouses of fallen soldiers continue to get paid - I'm going to lose it!!!!

In addition, there is no one on the Washington Redskins team or back office that puts out bounty's for the death and scalps of Native Americans, ergo, the relevance of the so called slur being offensive in regard to being directed in present time at anyone specific and in use is moot.

In conclusion, just a name that used to mean something 150 years ago, and was used during that time as a possible derogatory term or just a basic slang description of a people, isn't enough for people now to feel offended in my opinion. There is nobody alive now who was alive in the mid 1800's when this term was actual commonly used, furthermore, I don't think it's a problem being used as a derogatory slur in present times, so all of these people need to build a time machine, go back in time, and protest when it was actually RELEVANT!

If there was a team called the Alabama Crackers or the Texas Honkeys - I would not be offended, or care.

If this keeps up, what we will see next is:

The Dallas Cowboys - Dallas Non Gender Specific Western People

Arizona Diamondbacks - Arizona Non Lethal Reptiles

San Diego Padres - San Diego Hispanic American Non Gender Specific Parents and/or Priests

SF Giants - SF Average Height People

Min. Vikings - Min. Norse Legends

GB Packers - GB Unionized Factory Workers

Pitt. Steelers - Pitt. Unionized Mill Workers

TB Buccs - TB Ocean Faring Ship People

KC Chiefs - KC Reservation Leaders

And so on.....

[khomeinist]

Redskins is gonna change man. Not today. Not tomorrow. But it will within a generation. It really is in comically poor taste for a team from the 'murican' capital to use such a 'redneck' expression

The 'dont touch a white man's leisure activities' style arguments are particularly amusing.

I worked at the University of Illinois when they banned 'the chief.' I will give a full analysis of that comedy show after another three fingers of Evan Williams. (ahem).

[Skyfall]

Redskins is gonna change man. Not today. Not tomorrow. But it will within a generation. It really is in comically poor taste for a team from the 'murican' capital to use such a 'redneck' expression

The 'dont touch a white man's leisure activities' style arguments are particularly amusing.

I worked at the University of Illinois when they banned 'the chief.' I will give a full analysis of that comedy show after another three fingers of Evan Williams. (ahem).

Oh silly Patrick.......

[Munts]

http://ftw.usatoday....e-debate-obama/

"The Redskins are going to change their name, so deal with it"

[PaulP]

Clearly 'Redskins' is offensive to many. Whether it not you care after honest reflection is your prerogative.

http://en.m.wikipedi.../Indian_removal

http://en.wikipedia..../Redskin_(slang)

Edit. Slang link works with proper parentheses.

Everything is offensive to someone somewhere.

[Ken Gargett]

http://ftw.usatoday....e-debate-obama/

"The Redskins are going to change their name, so deal with it"

this stuff has been running for ages. dimwitted journo's with the need to fill space. roll it out every year and eventually you'll get it right.

and what a load of tosh he has written. 'a popular name among redskins fans is warriors'. no it isn't. redskins is the popular name. everything else is not popular.

remember this is the owner who fought everyone for years re his way of managing the team, endlessly interfering. no one could stop him. if he is that stubborn about something important, and he digs his heels in about this, could be a long road.