The world of Fakes

[El Presidente]

I had a member send me a couple of Bolivars to try that he was not sure of. They are discontinued aged Boli's which he purchased from a land far away. It was a B&M store with online.

Construction: Good

Tobacco: Cuban

Band: Good

Flavour: Perfumed and sour throughout.

I am into the last third now and thinking how big a market this must be.

You would be selling these at a significant premium. So how would I go about orchestrating such a fraud.

The boxes would not be a problem. We would have at any given time 500 empty boxes somewhere in the building from the walk-in B&M. It would take little effort to instead of throwing them out every 3 months to collect those discontinued or likely to be.

Bands are easy enough. Suppliers for Cuban bands are everywhere. In Havana if connected you can pick up as many a you like (genuine) for a fee.

Cigars: Easy enough. I can have rolled 2000 cigars at a time. If I want Corona Gorda's for fakes then all I would insist upon is uniformity of colour. Blend they can use whatever they have available. Hit the Volado heavy to keep the cost down.

All in all a box of 25 - cost $100 (including freight out of Cuba). Sell as discontiued and aged $350. Tidy 20K profit for 80 boxes.

Good money for the unscrupulous

[CaptainQuintero]

...and the Monte Opens were born!

[SuprHasan]

...and the Monte Opens were born!

[Scdalak]

So easy....The Chinese must be counterfeiting like there's no tomorrow ...

Prez, how does one counterfeit the Cuban cote de arms and or hologram.

[Fuzz AI]

Geez Rob! You know it's really hard to scam people when you keep giving away our secrets!

I have a good mind to call the Nigerian Prince Wariz Markash, little Sathya of Bangalore who needs money for a heart transplant, and "Sam" from Loteria Primitiva. We're going to vote you out of the League of International Scammers.

[El Presidente]

We're going to vote you out of the League of International Scammers.

That is disappointing...I thought I had "Life membership?"

[El Presidente]

Prez, how does one counterfeit the Cuban cote de arms and or hologram.

Understand that original boxes are often used and there is a backdoor trade in them. i would get up to 10 e-mails a week seeking serious quantities of empty boxes and Jars and they specify what they want. It is almost always Cohiba (Behike/66/Robusto/Esplendido/Lancero/Genios/LE), Montecristo (Sublime being the favourite).

I never respond. They still e-mail religiously.

Prices are $45 for any Behike box, $65 for Sublime.

[Hypersomniac]

Understand that original boxes are often used and there is a backdoor trade in them. i would get up to 10 e-mails a week seeking serious quantities of empty boxes and Jars and they specify what they want. It is almost always Cohiba (Behike/66/Robusto/Esplendido/Lancero/Genios/LE), Montecristo (Sublime being the favourite).

I never respond. They still e-mail religiously.

Prices are $45 for any Behike box, $65 for Sublime.

None of those e-mails came from Sven did they?

[Fuzz AI]

That is disappointing...I thought I had "Life membership?"

It's been revoked. You keep giving away our secrets!!

[BonVivant]

Would really appreciate any info on Hamlet's Dalias and Mon's Robustos, please?

Was told that Mon's Robustos do not exist...

[nikesupremedunk]

This thread got me real paranoid...

[LeafLover]

Anyone have Cohiba boxes with glass tops they can sell me?

[demiurgic]

Wow, they have a B&M AND online store and BOTH are selling fakes.

I wouldn't sleep at night if someone walked into my store and I pulled a charming Zino like smile and handed them a fakeroo.

Ballsy!

[brazoseagle]

You caught me!

???

I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!

[canadianbeaver]

I am convinced that the B&M up the street that at least some of their stock is questionable. They may not even be doing it intentionally, but that is just being hopelessly optimistic.

Since I have gone 99% Cuban, $$$, I will only buy from maybe 3 vendors, mostly 2, or trade within the FOH community here in Toronto. That's it.

[BonVivant]

Would really appreciate any info on Hamlet's Dalias and Mon's Robustos, please?

Was told that Mon's Robustos do not exist...

Guess, these cigars do not exist???

Try again??????????

[gostgost]

Understand that original boxes are often used and there is a backdoor trade in them. i would get up to 10 e-mails a week seeking serious quantities of empty boxes and Jars and they specify what they want. It is almost always Cohiba (Behike/66/Robusto/Esplendido/Lancero/Genios/LE), Montecristo (Sublime being the favourite).

I never respond. They still e-mail religiously.

Prices are $45 for any Behike box, $65 for Sublime.

That is freaking unbelievable!

[El Presidente]

I am convinced that the B&M up the street that at least some of their stock is questionable. They may not even be doing it intentionally, but that is just being hopelessly optimistic.

There was a retailer in Oz who was at the time buying off Cigar Affair in Singapore (a grey market distributor who was taken to court in Singapore and convicted). I pointed out in conversation that the Partagas Piramide (and much of the other stock he had) was fake.

In effect, the response was "If I don't know they are fake they are not".

This is the attitude by many in the retail trade.

In B&M and smaller online stores, margins are thin. volumes are dropping. Good money to be made if you don't really care. Plenty of suppliers bombarding these stores daily with wholesale pricing that is 1/2 less than you would pay in Havana.

I can't see how it can be stopped in this day and age. It is entrenched. Distributors have taken many grey market distributors proven to be selling fakes only to see a slap in the wrist given. Many are back in operation within a few months.

[canadianbeaver]

What has me questioning what is going on there is one time we were smoking on his patio and he asks me to try theses cigars a guy he knows brought in these cigars to try. They were Behikes that were obviously fake but he thought they were very good. He was going to take the bands off and sell them at an event as Cuban unbanded. He said he would in no way claim they were Behikes.

The very idea that he had these and would show them to me flushed his credibility down the toilet.

To me credibility in the cigar business is so delicate, you cannot even have a whiff of impropriety.

Whenever I tell anyone I smoke Cuban cigars, the first thing they ask me is, "Are they fake?"

I will not even discuss this question because I know the cigars I am smoking only come from my inner circle of trusted smoking partners.

[Rushman]

What has me questioning what is going on there is one time we were smoking on his patio and he asks me to try theses cigars a guy he knows brought in these cigars to try. They were Behikes that were obviously fake but he thought they were very good. He was going to take the bands off and sell them at an event as Cuban unbanded. He said he would in no way claim they were Behikes.

The very idea that he had these and would show them to me flushed his credibility down the toilet.

To me credibility in the cigar business is so delicate, you cannot even have a whiff of impropriety.

Whenever I tell anyone I smoke Cuban cigars, the first thing they ask me is, "Are they fake?"

I will not even discuss this question because I know the cigars I am smoking only come from my inner circle of trusted smoking partners.

Well said. Trust is everything.

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.631697,-87.070668

[persianpirate]

Wanna know how easy it is? Go to alibaba.com and search Cohiba.....you get branded tubo manufacturers all the way to sellers selling complete boxes....majority in china

[stogiecidal]

I wholeheartedly agree with Lisa...trust is everything. If you can't trust the source/pedigree why take the chance. It's amazing how far it goes in terms of replication. I read somewhere that tubos aren't typically replicated due to higher costs but seeing the previous post disproves that theory.

Quick question. Is it possible to acquire legitimate Cuban seals with serial numbers that can be validated on the HSA site, and then be used on the fakes?

[Nino]

I wholeheartedly agree with Lisa...trust is everything. If you can't trust the source/pedigree why take the chance. It's amazing how far it goes in terms of replication. I read somewhere that tubos aren't typically replicated due to higher costs but seeing the previous post disproves that theory.

Quick question. Is it possible to acquire legitimate Cuban seals with serial numbers that can be validated on the HSA site, and then be used on the fakes?

x 2 on Lisa's comments

As for your question : not sure, but if you have the empty boxes for the fakes to begin with, you already have genuine seals ...

[oliverchang514]

that's why you can only purchase from trusted sellers like Rob. =]

[Nino]

Good money to be made if you don't really care. Plenty of suppliers bombarding these stores daily with wholesale pricing that is 1/2 less than you would pay in Havana.

I can't see how it can be stopped in this day and age. It is entrenched.

Guess it can't be stopped as you rightly state.

Take a look-see at these bands and boxes offered to a friend and tell me what you see ...