Humidity in Wineador too high!

[Dimmers]

Hi All,

Took the plunge with my first cooler recently - a 28 bottle thermo model (Cybercool 28 bottle - Aussie brand), and after some issues trying to remove the plastic smell (which I believe is now ok with bicarb cleaning and then sitting packed with newspaper for weeks), am now finally at stage of regulating humidity.

So I have 2 x 16 ounce bags of 65% RH Beads (which are ample for the dimensions of the cooler), and followed instructions with distilled. Each bag has bead ratio of milky to clear of around 50-50%.

Putting the beads into the cooler a fortnight ago the RH dropped from 80-75% in the first week. The second week it has stayed at a solid 74-75% the entire time.

Not sure why I can’t achieve 65%, as it’s a closed environment now and the beads appear not oversaturated. Shouldn’t the beads eventually bring the humidity down to 65% (on the basis they aren’t oversaturated) ? Details below:

- Winecooler is completely empty at this point, no Spanish cedar or stick as yet;

- Seal on the cooler looks a-ok on inspection;

- Temp a constant 18C;

- 2 x hygrometers are correctly calibrated;

- No condensation at all;

- Drainage hole plugged (with electrical tape - which I’m assuming would be enough to prevent humidity leakage?);

- Model runs 2 fans, 1 each in top and bottom partitions (partition can be removed, though I haven’t tried this as yet);

- Currently in a Brisbane winter, so outside humidity is not higher (range of mid 50’s to mid 70’s over last 7 days) .

I am wary of exposing my sticks to this. Any thoughts of what I may have missed here?

[rckymtn22]

Try sticking some cedar in the wineador, if you have some. That should help to bring the RH down.

[brazoseagle]

Some cedar will definitely help, but I've always stuck by charging the beads to 75% clear and only 25% white. This was told to me by David, the owner of Heartfelt, years ago, and I practice this and I have never had a problem.

[Jason55555]

Had the same problems with mine and believe me its not gonna go away lol but eventually you'll feel it out.

*Temp a constant 18C

The wine fridge is having to cool the 70ish air down each time, you need to find a propper place to put the fridge. You can do everything perfect inside the wine fridge but where you put it matters and the air around it. Is it on the floor or not?, is it in the sun or a room where alot of sun shine in? all these factors will affect the temp of the room thus effecting the wine fridge. Based on my exp with mine that could be the prob don't put it in a cold place if you want 65% need a semi warm place.

To keep a consistent and healthy environment in your cigar humidor, the relative humidity level should decrease as the temperature increases and vice versa. So keeping it at 18C (64F) could also be adding to the RH being so high see chart.

Warmer air can hold more water vapor. Cooler air can hold less, if there's a certain amount of water vapor in the air, and the air temperature drops, the air can now hold less at the reduced temperature, so the amount that's there is now a greater thus keeping 18C could hindering the beads, try throwin the temp to 21C (70F)

***I know everyone bangs on it but instead of more ceder since it will only be a temp fix try a little scent free KL, i'm a 100% believer in it, it works my wine fridge is at 65%RH on the dot at all times now with it.

[Guest rob]

Dry your beads out completely.

You have an environment with higher than desired RH.

Piggy will know the science best, though beads, or any desiccant will try to source moisture to reach an equilibrium - if you put completely dry beads in then they will source the moisture they desire from the environment.

Keeping a mix of beads moist is only required when trying to maintain or supply moisture to the RH environment.

[Dimmers]

Gents thanks for this great advice, very much appreciated.

I have removed the beads altogether and the RH appears to be a steady 65-68% over the past week.

The max temp setting in my cooler is 18C, so I will make do with the options of (i) adding cedar; (ii) drying out beads completely/mostly and reinserting; and (iii) monitoring closely.

God knows what will occur over the next Brisbane summer when room templerature and RH will regulaly hit over 30C and 80% - particularly as I will be overseas for the entire time, and the cooler will be in the hands of my bro-in-law (who isnt a cigar person). Will have to leave some detailed instructions, promises of rewards/threats of physical violence and hope for the best!

[klassikkasp]

I face the same issue, I keep my winedor at 66rh and 68F i would like to get it down to 63 or 662 rh but cant seem to get it any lower. I have a small amount of dry heartfelt beads in there and have three solid 3/4 in Spanish cedar boards for shelves. I originally had a half pound bag of heartfelt beads slightly seasoned with distilled water. may have to try to put the whole half pound of dry beads in there and see if that helps.

[planetary]

I'm not in a high humidity environment, but I will say that I use closer to 2 pounds of beads in each of my wineadors, and like the results.

[PigFish]

You guys should understand that your systems are to be considered 'sealed' systems with passive hydration.

The key to managing this would be to harness the power of the 'active' system, your cooler and use it for a limited time to support your need for dehydration.

I would purpose build a means to extract water from your system, and depending on what it looks like inside I may be able to give you some guidance.

Generally, you will need to tap the source of water runoff from your cooling coil. If your coil is always frozen that will be a problem. You need to stagger your run times to allow the coil to thaw and gander up some of that water (once ice) and remove it from the system, or at least bottle it in a small mostly sealed bottle of some type. Once your system begins to come to the right rH equilibrium, remove the bottle, discard the water and you are back to ground zero for a while.

Remember, as the cigars 'cook-off' water, or degas water vapor, the rH reading should start to climb again. In which case you will have to reenact the process. This is a pain in the ass, but there is no really easy way to do it, unless you bake and dry desiccants, remove and replace them and do it again and again until equilibrium is once more established.

I have pulled up a data log from last week showing one of my systems accomplishing this task automatically. You see, I don't like dealing with this crap and let automation do it for me.

Any sealed system with free water above the desired equilibrium water content level will drive the system as a whole to over rH. This means that in a system like yours, you need to control the 'exact' amount of water. Water in your beads is not really free water, but buffered water. If your beads are too wet, the water then becomes free water. The way to use a buffer correctly in this case is to use a huge amount of beads... 2 or 3 pounds, ain't gonna' do the trick! Frankly bead reseller guidelines are a bit of a joke. Most of these folks are clueless about what kind of real "total water content" that there is in a humidor, and without that information, guessing about what type of total buffer you require is meaningless... But I digress...

I use an "ample" free water based system and philosophy. To you this means active hydration. That water in the system is going to be acted upon by nature and therefore there is an endless cycle of evaporation and condensation, collection and drying going on in a fully activated system. Most people control this by accident, including humidor makers, but I control it with intent.

Here is what a controlled system should do...

This picture is highly zoomed so that you can see the details of rH control, though the cooling system and how the two work hand in hand.

I know that this site does not allow high-res imaging. So you should also note that the rH ranges about 1 rH above or below the average or the median. The temp in in 0.1 to 0.2 range.

Cheers! -Piggy

[Fosgate]

I made the mistake of seasoning my cabinets slowly as I put several small bowls with sponges and distilled water in and let them sit at 80+rh for a week or more. After drying out the beads every few days, mine has finally gotten down to an acceptable level.