Diplomaticos no4?

[pjansen]

Anyone know where I can find some? I checked the CC website and it said they were discontinued. Never had a chance to smoke one...heard many good reviews.

By PM only......Sources are not to be named on the open forum or the shout-box.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Trevor2118
Note added by moderator

[joshb]

I'm also looking and would appreciate any leads via PM if anyone is willing to share, second in line to Thrasherman of course....

Best,

Josh

[Tarks]

Anyone know where I can find some? I checked the CC website and it said they were discontinued. Never had a chance to smoke one...heard many good reviews.

Havana, Cuba.

[joshb]

Maybe next year, my work schedule says not this year ;>

Havana, Cuba.

[Cohiba Stevie]

Also anxiously interested in these...

If anybody can point me in the right direction please pm me.

Many thanks

[chr0nic]

Discontinued, really? That does suck... Just watched the review and from the flavours thrown out by the boys it sounds like a cigar I would have enjoyed. I looked forward to sampling this.

I too hope to try this elusive cigar in the future.

[Hohenthal]

This should be in the trading section really,

but nevertheless,

PM sent.

[Ravenwood]

It is a shame these were discontinued. I think they are a great little cigar. I have about a half of a box left. If anybody wants to trade for a couple I'm open to it.

[PigFish]

Not wishing to fan the flames of passion here, but I find it interesting as always to see the real-time results of dissatisfaction at the hands of H SA et al's deletions.

The craze over the D-4 for the past several years has been fantastic, sad and amusing! For these are the cigars that "no one wants, and don't make any money!" Amazing!

You know gentlemen, you should be more than pissed off at the deletion of these fine cigars. Mostly because the tobacco for them now just sits on a shelf. It is not put to a higher and better use, it just sits and waits to be carelessly rolled into one of the popular fat products to fill a deadline sometime in the future.

You should not only be upset over the loss of this cigar but many others. Any of you smoke the Diplomatico #1? How about the D-3? The Diplomatico 5, 6 or 7?

I cracked this box for a little fun sharing. You like the D-4, how would you like one that smokes for an hour and a half? These are '05, and came from our host.

Cheers. -

[Ravenwood]

Those look beautiful. You are right, I cannot figure why Habanos does this. Not selling? Not a money maker? Really? Sad.

[joshb]

Hi PigFish-

Insightful post, but that seems to be your style from what I can tell . I also am not really down with $40 jaw breakers, so the way that most new releases are going is pretty discouraging to me as well.

Just added this to another post I mad here, but maybe you'll have some insight.... Do you think it would be worth a crack at a few Dec. '00 Diplo No. 1's? I know those are tough years in there, but I'm very tempted.

Cheers!

You should not only be upset over the loss of this cigar but many others. Any of you smoke the Diplomatico #1? How about the D-3? The Diplomatico 5, 6 or 7?

I cracked this box for a little fun sharing. You like the D-4, how would you like one that smokes for an hour and a half? These are '05, and came from our host.

[PigFish]

Hi PigFish-

Insightful post, but that seems to be your style from what I can tell . I also am not really down with $40 jaw breakers, so the way that most new releases are going is pretty discouraging to me as well.

Just added this to another post I mad here, but maybe you'll have some insight.... Do you think it would be worth a crack at a few Dec. '00 Diplo No. 1's? I know those are tough years in there, but I'm very tempted.

Cheers!

I see everything in cigar purchasing as risk/reward mate. To be clear 99/00 were hard years for the popular cigars. There were also a lot of tight cigars in 42 and under rings, and other ring sized cigars as well. Frankly, not really being a "popular cigar" purchaser even back then, I avoided a lot of the problems associated with these years by avoiding overproduced cigars!

Here is my answer. If these cigars are not hard as depleted uranium sabots... then they are likely damn good cigars! Having discontinued these cigars they likely are no longer inexpensive. The market, a few years ago, would have seen these cigars discounted because of the reputation of the vintage year, not as a result of the model cigar. If the price is fair, I would buy them in a heartbeat. I have smoked many cigars from these years, and that includes Monte 1 Especial's for example that were not tight, but divine! The best Bolivar CE that I ever smoked was from a box of '99's. Fundadores, the same.

If the price is fair, I say take the chance. The Partagas Seleccion Privada from that time were sublime, tight yes, but sublime! The same was true for the H Upmann lonsdale from the same period and into '01. These cigars would floor you with charm and flavor... really intense and robust cigars. All of these are, or could be tight cigars, all I would buy again if I could. Dry them into the 50's RH range and smoke away!

BUT, it all depends on price! While I love the cigar, why take a risk if you know you can buy another box of newer vintage Monte #1's that you know you like? (This is just an example.) You see, I stopped attempting to purchase elusive cigars long ago. I sample, I like, I buy. I sample, I don't like, I no longer buy. It is a simple philosopy that has served me well.

If you are happy with certain cigars... stick with them. Thin, fat or whatever. Buy and smoke what is good now because if they are good now, they should continue to be good as they age. Remember, just cause some guru or some dude posts a picture and raves about a cigar does not mean that they will be to your taste. You be the judge amigo... Don't let another (and that includes me) define your taste!

Best of luck on you decision. -the Pig

[joshb]

. Remember, just cause some guru or some dude posts a picture and raves about a cigar does not mean that they will be to your taste. You be the judge amigo... Don't let another (and that includes me) define your taste!

Best of luck on you decision. -the Pig

This is very true...I have much more experience with wine than cigars, but I know that in both cases, much of the time tasting notes only hold really true for one person, the taster. General experience of good/bad, and the overall picture can be communicated, but the rest of the time, I find it's mostly emotional. That being said, I much appreciate the insight you've related to this case. This will be an exercise in broadening my tastes and range of experience and continuing to help define them.

With the PSP2, I'm especially interested in tasting a young example versus one with a few years to start to better understand more empirically what age can provide.

Best,

Josh

[PigFish]

This is very true...I have much more experience with wine than cigars, but I know that in both cases, much of the time tasting notes only hold really true for one person, the taster. General experience of good/bad, and the overall picture can be communicated, but the rest of the time, I find it's mostly emotional. That being said, I much appreciate the insight you've related to this case. This will be an exercise in broadening my tastes and range of experience and continuing to help define them.

With the PSP2, I'm especially interested in tasting a young example versus one with a few years to start to better understand more empirically what age can provide.

Best,

Josh

Not that I am into correcting you but you need to consider that cigars are individuals. Like wine, you cannot assume a constant to taste and attribute changes only to age. Vintage and individualism all play a their parts.

The cigars you sample may be good or bad and it may, and in my opinion more likely due to composition (individualism) rather than the aging.

-

[CaptainQuintero]

If you have never had one then try not to get carried away with the wave of people who love them, yes they love them but you may not. I've had numerous Dips 1 through 5 and they are just not to my taste. I can appreciate the flavours in them and recognise that others would love the profiles, but for me I wouldn't ever grab a box of them. Remember to find what you like not what you think you should like

[joshb]

Not that I am into correcting you but you need to consider that cigars are individuals. Like wine, you cannot assume a constant to taste and attribute changes only to age. Vintage and individualism all play a their parts.

The cigars you sample may be good or bad and it may, and in my opinion more likely due to composition (individualism) rather than the aging.

-

A good point, but isn't sample deviation/individuality always going to be an issue? Other than increasing sample size and then generalizing across it, how can one start to see what an aged vs young example of any given cigar will be like?

To go back to the wine analogy, if you try enough bottles of two vintages of any given wine, eventually you can begin to look past the bottle variation and generalize about each wine's characteristics. Likewise by trying enough bottles of any wine over, let's say 10 years, you can start to see how the aging process is going. Do you find it's the same with cigars?

Best,

Josh

[Bartolomeo]

Ray got me into the Diplomatico brand and I love it, especially the 2 and 4

Bart

[joshb]

If you have never had one then try not to get carried away with the wave of people who love them, yes they love them but you may not. I've had numerous Dips 1 through 5 and they are just not to my taste. I can appreciate the flavours in them and recognise that others would love the profiles, but for me I wouldn't ever grab a box of them. Remember to find what you like not what you think you should like

Agreed, just always trying to get a better honed idea of what I do like. Never know unless you try, and I never had a chance to try Diplo 4s

[PigFish]

A good point, but isn't sample deviation/individuality always going to be an issue? Other than increasing sample size and then generalizing across it, how can one start to see what an aged vs young example of any given cigar will be like?

Best,

Josh

This is true (IMHO). Sample size equals experience, familiarity, knowledge and confidence. What it does not do is cure the imperfection of the Cuban cigar. Some of the known imperfections are as follows. Each cigar is made from different leaves from different plants, potentially from difference vegas, by different rollers on different days, sorted visually by the insignificance of wrapper color!!! Then boxed and stamped the date they were boxed.

To answer your question, in my opinion, stating something as brazen as "these will age nicely" is a bit of a joke! The cigar sampled is gone! Only if the remaining samples are as good will you have a good cigar in the future. Beyond that no one can quantify the "aging effect." Many of us assume it will be for the better. I too assume a good cigar today equals a good cigar tomorrow, but claiming what aspects of the cigar never smoked twice, accounts to age is a giant leap of faith!

I am one of the few that does not believe in profile. I believe in smoking performance. Profile be damned!!! All that I care about is that the cigar is good, not that it is similar to a sibling, other than the fact that it too was good.

Wine is a different matter and I am no expert. I don't drink the stuff. While wine has varietals and vintage considerations certainly but more importantly there is a matter of homogenization of the "mass" produced product. Wine is not made by the bottle. It is made by the vat, then the cask then the bottle. The bottle is only the final vessel. I therefore think the wine/cigar analogy is a poor one. (MHO)

I consider music a better analogy to cigars. Yes, music! In music each song is individual to each ear. The performer and the writer may leave a familiar mark that allows that music to be categorized by those that recognize the traits. The styles differ and whole styles can be rejected or accepted by listeners. Only one song can be selected as acceptable out of an entire style set by some. Without going into exhaustive details... is this not redolent of the cigar? In music no one can define good or bad. We just know that we like or don't like it. That others like or don't like it... just like cigars.

The major difference in music is that the song can be replayed and the cigar cannot. With music we can all sample the exact same thing and share the experience. We can sample it over and over, many times over many years. It is honest and we cannot project claims on it that it has progressed or regressed. But our opinion about it can change... just like they can about cigars. In music there is honesty as it can be revisted. We can lie about liking it in the past and disliking it now, but we cannot undo the fact of it. We can hoestly evaluate that we have changed and cannot blame our change on the music itself. Music is honest as it is repeatable. An important characteristic that cigars do not possess.

In my many years of thinking on cigar analogies, music is the best that fits my understanding of the individualism of a cigar.

Cheers. Good conversation by the way! Sorry I diverted the thread. -Piggy

[CanuckSARTech]

Ray's back with a passion!!!!!

Too bad his secret modus operandi is to put LE sublime robustos gordas into the hands of infants everywhere!!!!

[joshb]

Great conversation indeed, and appreciated. I think the thread drift is probably more on me than you, for what it's worth. I have some italicized comments below...

This is true (IMHO). Sample size equals experience, familiarity, knowledge and confidence. What it does not do is cure the imperfection of the Cuban cigar. Some of the known imperfections are as follows. Each cigar is made from different leaves from different plants, potentially from difference vegas, by different rollers on different days, sorted visually by the insignificance of wrapper color!!! Then boxed and stamped the date they were boxed.

To answer your question, in my opinion, stating something as brazen as "these will age nicely" is a bit of a joke! The cigar sampled is gone! Only if the remaining samples are as good will you have a good cigar in the future. Beyond that no one can quantify the "aging effect." Many of us assume it will be for the better. I too assume a good cigar today equals a good cigar tomorrow, but claiming what aspects of the cigar never smoked twice, accounts to age is a giant leap of faith!

I think this is all very true and good points all around

I am one of the few that does not believe in profile. I believe in smoking performance. Profile be damned!!! All that I care about is that the cigar is good, not that it is similar to a sibling, other than the fact that it too was good.

Wine is a different matter and I am no expert. I don't drink the stuff. While wine has varietals and vintage considerations certainly but more importantly there is a matter of homogenization of the "mass" produced product. Wine is not made by the bottle. It is made by the vat, then the cask then the bottle. The bottle is only the final vessel. I therefore think the wine/cigar analogy is a poor one. (MHO)

Here we begin to diverge a bit. I absolutely agree regarding a consumable item such as a cigar or bottle of wine being best measured by it's performance during consumption, be it while smoking or drinking etc. I also tend to agree with wine appearing to be a poor analogy on the surface, but for some reason when you start drinking it and thinking about it on the level which we are talking about here, it is a very fine example. I could go in to a bunch of reasons why I think it is so, but rather I'll just state that though it doesnt seem like it should be, bottle variation among wine is just as severe as cigar to cigar variation in habanos. If you take a really fine burgundy of which there is maybe only 100 cases produced every year (and I choose this example because it is equally as geeky of the current topic at hand ;>) each bottle will be absolutely different, but when taken as a whole, a pattern of consistent experience emerges across the tastings. Again, you're correct regarding the difference in production process, but you'll just have to take my word for the truth in the results!

I consider music a better analogy to cigars. Yes, music! In music each song is individual to each ear. The performer and the writer may leave a familiar mark that allows that music to be categorized by those that recognize the traits. The styles differ and whole styles can be rejected or accepted by listeners. Only one song can be selected as acceptable out of an entire style set by some. Without going into exhaustive details... is this not redolent of the cigar? In music no one can define good or bad. We just know that we like or don't like it. That others like or don't like it... just like cigars.

The major difference in music is that the song can be replayed and the cigar cannot. With music we can all sample the exact same thing and share the experience. We can sample it over and over, many times over many years. It is honest and we cannot project claims on it that it has progressed or regressed. But our opinion about it can change... just like they can about cigars. In music there is honesty as it can be revisted. We can lie about liking it in the past and disliking it now, but we cannot undo the fact of it. We can hoestly evaluate that we have changed and cannot blame our change on the music itself. Music is honest as it is repeatable. An important characteristic that cigars do not possess.

Yes, yes and yes.

In my many years of thinking on cigar analogies, music is the best that fits my understanding of the individualism of a cigar.

Cheers. Good conversation by the way! Sorry I diverted the thread. -Piggy

[PigFish]

Ray's back with a passion!!!!!

Too bad his secret modus operandi is to put LE sublime robustos gordas into the hands of infants everywhere!!!!

... didn't I see a picture of you laying next to a toilet somewhere??? -LOL Hope you had a good birthday mate. Now I am gonna' grab a RG Lonsdale and hop on my Harley!!!

I'll be back to wreak havoc and hurt more feelings later! -Piggy

[Colt45]

Some good stuff here, guys - if I may, I'll throw in my unsolicited two bits.....

Wine analogy: As often as I've compared cigars and wine in certain situations, overall I agree that it's not the best analogy for the reasons

Ray has mentioned - cigars are rolled with individually processd leaf (which conceivably can come from different farms for a lot) while most

wine is processed "en masse". My personal belief is that bottle variation in wine is an issue of handling and storage, and not that the wine

within a barrel differs within that barrel, which would transfer to different bottles.

Music analogy: Interesting. But because I do believe that cigars can change with time (as steel, iron, etc, can oxidize, I think cigars do as

well), I'm not sure I completely agree with this one. A recorded piece of music, as mentioned, does not change. It can be perceived differently

by different people, and our individual perception of it can change with time, but the notes and nuances do not change.

Cheers guys