CaptainQuintero Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 This is the information as far as I know, it's already pretty much a done deal in the UK: Supermarkets have to remove all tobacco products from view by the end of this year. Smaller shops ie B&Ms have to remove all tobacco products from view by 2015. This includes humidors, cutters, lighters etc too. Basically B&Ms will have to have blacked out windows like a sex shop, supermarkets will pretty much be a person behind a desk and you ask them for what you want, they go in the back and bring it you out. No one knows how far it will go for smaller shops, the blacked out windows may be all there is but it is looking likely that everything inside has to be hidden too. Talking to a B&M manager I know he said it will most likely be like a hole in a wall job and you get a brown paper bag in return for money basically leading to the significant number of illegally imported tobacco in the UK to surge and dwarf the legal market. He did an interview on the situation a few months back: BBC Interview he did and him discussing it (and the new US tobacco tax) Only 4000 people have signed the petition so far. I don't know if Ryan has any more info on the situation or has any insight into what he thinks is going to be the outcome of it all?
canadianbeaver Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Ontario Canada has this law in place already for about a year now. All tobacco products are behind doors of file cabinets and you have to ask for what you want and prove you are of age. This is not so in a specific cigar shop though, so my sympathies to you. CB
IcedCanuck Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Ontario Canada has this law in place already for about a year now. All tobacco products are behind doors of file cabinets and you have to ask for what you want and prove you are of age. This is not so in a specific cigar shop though, so my sympathies to you. CB I thought it has been in effect for longer than a year. One thing I have noticed it seems that shops that sell cigarettes have EVERYTHING behind closed doors but the shops I have been in that only sell cigars, pipe tobacco, and accessories still have everything on display. I haven't dug too deeply into it. It is VERY annoying though. One of the stupidest things about the law here is that if there is a lineup and everyone in line wants to have a look in the humidor the person with the key is only permitted to serve a single customer at a time. So they will unlock the door, grab stock for one customer, close the door, bring it to the cash, and ring it through. This has to be repeated for every single individual. Why they are not permitted to open it once and let everyone have a look and get what they want is beyond me.
Cohiba Stevie Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 As far as i know this legislation will not apply to specialist cigar retailers. Shops that sell all manner of tobacco like cigarettes, rolling and pipe tobacco will have to follow suit though.
Ryan Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I don't know if Ryan has any more info on the situation or has any insight into what he thinks is going to be the outcome of it all? I had heard bits and pieces, I didn't know much about it but I know someone who does. I just spoke to him and yes a UK display ban is coming in. It starts with the supermarkets and moves down to the smaller shops over the next few years. Specialist tobacconists, that is, shops where >70% of turnover is from tobacco will have a derogation in that they can display tobacco products in the shop but can not have anything visible from the street. Cutters, lighters, humidors, cigar store indians, all fine in the front window. Just not tobacco. Rob thinks that may change before it comes law as some shops more than others would have a very difficult time of it. Anybody familiar with the size of the windows in Davidoff in St James will know what it would mean for them. It's possible that there may be a ban on any public display advertising a shop as a cigar shop. Like most tobacco legislation, it's aimed solely at cigarettes without a thought to cigars. Nobody gives a crap about cigars. This law, once passed, may not be as bad as it's sounding now. Hunters have made a good case in the past in the UK, it was them who basically got in the UK cigar sampling derogation to get around the total indoor ban for specialist tobacconists. Not for Ireland of course. Hunters, very nice people all of them when you meet them, but they couldn't give a shite about the Irish market. That's not Rob saying that by the way. That's all me.
Cohiba Stevie Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I think this may be the only thread where I can vent some of my anger, in fact not just my anger but my apprehension that cigar retailing might to go the toilet in ireland completely... Theres nothin i love more than driving down to dublin with my girlfriend, taking her shopping on grafton and always nipping in to foxes or the cigar emporium to buy a nice cigar, i intentionally do not bring any smokes with me just so i can have the experience of buying, then heading back to a nice hotel to light up with a pint of guiness... Naturally due to money, work and other things, the above is not a regular occurance for me. The more i see things like this the more i dread the inevitable...
Ryan Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 There are people in this country working quite hard to keep the cigar business here going, although it's tough. Not allowing cigar sampling in the four specialist tobacconists in the country is ridiculous. If you're coming down to Dublin anytime soon. Keep an eye on Yiorgos's site www.cigars.ie , he organises a get-together once a month or so where we meet in a smoke-friendly place in the city centre for a cigar and a pint or two. You'd be more than welcome, bring the girlfriend, most of us are fairly normal.
CaptainQuintero Posted January 10, 2012 Author Posted January 10, 2012 Thanks for the info Ryan, appreciate it It's a real shame still, you'd think with a conservative Gvt in power and Ken Clarke in the cabinet there would be some kind of movement towards what is happening with the hunting ban, fingers crossed still hopefully. I can see it wiping out the medium sellers though, I'm slap bang in the middle of England and my nearest B&M is in Liverpool nearly two hours away, the only other place is a wine shop 40min away which as it stands would ditch the small cigar side of their store. It's bad enough that my nearest cigar lounge is the LCDH in Teddington four hours away lol
Cohiba Stevie Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Yeah i have been on cigars.ie many times and i am definatley going to try and make it down for a herf. I remember sending u a few pms when rob was in town and was disgusted i couldnt make it. I was meant to be in dublin with work that week but at the last minute ended up sending me to one of our sites in england. Ah well cant win them all. Ryan if you ever find yourself up in belfast any time, you should give me a shout. Some fairly ok places to enjoy a smoke up here, the city really has changed over the last 10 years too.
mazolaman Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Thanks for the info Ryan, appreciate it It's a real shame still, you'd think with a conservative Gvt in power and Ken Clarke in the cabinet there would be some kind of movement towards what is happening with the hunting ban, fingers crossed still hopefully. I can see it wiping out the medium sellers though, I'm slap bang in the middle of England and my nearest B&M is in Liverpool nearly two hours away, the only other place is a wine shop 40min away which as it stands would ditch the small cigar side of their store. It's bad enough that my nearest cigar lounge is the LCDH in Teddington four hours away lol They like to be seen to be doing something to save us from ourselves. Smoking is an easy target fro this, so they attack it, unlike the **** food that gets peddled all day long, and is responsible for more NHS spending. As mentioned previously many times, I too am saddened by the closing of pleasant, happy bars in England, like La Floridita, where you could get a reasonably priced drink and have a smoke. That place had a great atmos. While I enjoyed my trips to posh hotels for a smoke, it'll be the only time I can afford to go there. Agreed re the lack of good tobacconists, they are also disapearing, LCDH is ok near me, but they tend towards expensive LE and RE, whereas I prefer standard production. I think we cigar fans will suffer by being lumped together with cigarette smokers, like much government policy, there is no nuance.
CaptainQuintero Posted January 11, 2012 Author Posted January 11, 2012 Can't agree with you more Maz, I only got into cigars around five years ago so missed all of those good times, I only feel comfortable smoking in my back garden now, the only alternative is to sit out the back of a pub with blue fingers, a runny nose and a wet arse from the old bench Even spent ages looking around for members only old fashioned gentleman's clubs (The none stripper version) but even those seem to have faded out around me.
Squarehead Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 So far I never had a problem here to walk in a Cigar-Shop walkin humi as long as the vendor is a registered cigar retailer.However if the shop also sells cigaretts,those have to be covered.
El Presidente Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 You'd be more than welcome, bring the girlfriend, most of us are fairly normal. Yes....normal in a unique way
winelover Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 I wonder what it must have been like to be a cigar enthusiast in the first half of the 20th century when cigar smoking was admired and large cigars could be smoked anywhere. It is a shame that even private members clubs have had to close their smoking rooms. I used to enjoy smoking in the bar area of LCH Wardour Street (not La Floridita) and I have many fond memories there. It is a real shame that we can't smoke but on the flip side of the coin, if I go to the pub, I no longer stink of cigarettes without ever having smoked one. Still loving having cigars in pub beer gardens and enclosed legislation compliant smoking areas found at 10 Manchester Street or the Lanesborough. Just hope these freedoms don't get eroded further.
OZCUBAN Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I wonder what it must have been like to be a cigar enthusiast in the first half of the 20th century when cigar smoking was admired and large cigars could be smoked anywhere. It is a shame that even private members clubs have had to close their smoking rooms. I used to enjoy smoking in the bar area of LCH Wardour Street (not La Floridita) and I have many fond memories there. It is a real shame that we can't smoke but on the flip side of the coin, if I go to the pub, I no longer stink of cigarettes without ever having smoked one. Still loving having cigars in pub beer gardens and enclosed legislation compliant smoking areas found at 10 Manchester Street or the Lanesborough. Just hope these freedoms don't get eroded further. Well said Graham I to have pondered what it would have been like to smoke in the Halcyon days of Cigars,hey I would even settle for pre 2000 BTA ( before the axe ?) But alas I guess we just have to make do with what we have at the min ,and hope our rights don't erode any more ,not holding my breath though ? On the up side ,we all as cigar smokers need to band together more ,and fight for our rights ,which I think is what is happening on this forum Cheers OZ
El Presidente Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 You fight where you can and you fight hard. You work out where they are weak and what they cannot control which is essentially cigar communities doing their own thing under the radar. It requires all of us to support various events/get togethers in our own communities and elsewhere while spreading the laughter and fellowship. They hate this. They cannot control this. Revel in it, rub their noses in it.
Ryan Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Foe anyone interested, here's some more specific info that Rob sent to me. □ From April 2012 the Display ban comes into force in shops bigger than 280sqm (excluding Specialist Tobacconists) □ From April 2015 the Display ban comes in everywhere else, but tobacco products may be displayed in a specialist tobacconist provided they are not visible from outside of the premises. · A “tobacco product” means a product consisting wholly or partly of tobacco and intended to be smoked, sniffed, sucked or chewed. · A “specialist tobacconist” is a shop selling tobacco products by retail (whether or not it also sells other things) more than half of whose sales on the premises in question derive from the sale of cigars, snuff, pipe tobacco and smoking accessories. · A “Shop”, includes a self-contained part of a shop, so the walk in Humidors in Harrods and Selfridges will be fine. The same derogation applies to advertising. You could argue that there is room to display in the window something that looks remarkably like a tobacco product, provided · it is not made of tobacco, and · is not intended to be smoked, sniffed, sucked or chewed, and · is not intended to be an advertisement whose purpose and or effect is to promote a tobacco product. Although I expect it would be argued that a model of a bunch of cigars is an advertisement whose purpose if to promote a cigar, even if there is no branding on the model. I expect this interpretation revolves around what “a” means when it comes to “a” tobacco product. It would certainly be our intention to have the Indians in the window at St James’s, holding what ever it is they have in their hands. We would also intend having tobacco plants in the window, along with humidors – even if the humidor had an image of a cigar inlaid, lighters, ashtrays, cutters, etc. I imagine the old antique cigar cabinets would also be used in window displays. We are lucky in that our premises is long with a small face to the street – so we only have a small window space. I imagine we will have plenty to let passers by know what we are and what we do, but if all that fails I imagine the sampling derogation would allow us put Cecil in the window, smoking a cigar, provided of course it was out of a brown paper bag that is…
CaptainQuintero Posted January 12, 2012 Author Posted January 12, 2012 You could argue that there is room to display in the window something that looks remarkably like a tobacco product We've stumbled across the plan behind releasing the Monte Opens
mazolaman Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Even spent ages looking around for members only old fashioned gentleman's clubs (The none stripper version) but even those seem to have faded out around me. The shame is that The UK went fully in for the smoking ban, while in Berlin recently, I could go to one end of a bar, only in the evening, and smoke my cigar.It seems Germany went for a less severe form of the ban, whereas the UK went right to the max to spoil our fun.Booo. It is still possible to smoke indoors, but the bar/club needs to install some pretty expensive kit, the only one I know of which is fully indoors is the LCDH Teddington.
Ryan Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 The shame is that The UK went fully in for the smoking ban, while in Berlin recently, I could go to one end of a bar, only in the evening, and smoke my cigar. It seems Germany went for a less severe form of the ban, whereas the UK went right to the max to spoil our fun.Booo. It is still possible to smoke indoors, but the bar/club needs to install some pretty expensive kit, the only one I know of which is fully indoors is the LCDH Teddington. All specialist tobacconists in England, (not sure about Scotland, Wales and NI) got a derogation to allow cigar "sampling". The cigar must be bought on the premises and no cigarettes allowed. You can smoke anywhere in the Fox shops in St. James, there is a sampling room upstairs in the main one, I'll be having a cigar or two there tonight.. Davidoff certainly used to allow "sampling". Sautters, you can have a cigar. Dunhill seem to have flip-flopped, I don't know what their current status is. Ajay does have a very nice room in the shop though, had a fun afternoon there back in June. He's also a very nice guy and a great host. I agree with you though, shame about pubs. Although the smoking ban has been here longer and more pubs here are getting more adventurous in their interpretation of "outside smoking area" and seem to be getting away with it..
winelover Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Interesting article in today's Evening Standard about COSA (comfortable outdoor smoking areas) the London cigar scene and women cigar smokers. Not sure how to hyperlink on the smartphone version of FOH but I'll paste the link here: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-24027572-hotel-smoking-areas-cater-for-women-who-love-a-havana.do
CaptainQuintero Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 It sounds like the new '70% or more income from cigars' law could work in our favour, eg a place opening up which is essentially a cigar lounge and their nominal income is from cigar sales (A small humidor in the back) with a annual membership to the 'store' to cover costs.
mazolaman Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 All specialist tobacconists in England, (not sure about Scotland, Wales and NI) got a derogation to allow cigar "sampling". The cigar must be bought on the premises and no cigarettes allowed. You can smoke anywhere in the Fox shops in St. James, there is a sampling room upstairs in the main one, I'll be having a cigar or two there tonight.. Davidoff certainly used to allow "sampling". Sautters, you can have a cigar. Dunhill seem to have flip-flopped, I don't know what their current status is. Ajay does have a very nice room in the shop though, had a fun afternoon there back in June. He's also a very nice guy and a great host. I agree with you though, shame about pubs. Although the smoking ban has been here longer and more pubs here are getting more adventurous in their interpretation of "outside smoking area" and seem to be getting away with it.. Yes, I've smoked in Fox St James and in LCDH in Teddington. I don't mind buying in the tobacconists and to smoke there, but I do resent the £25 minimum spend in LCDH. As shown on here, I have enjoyed visiting a couple of the cigar lounges in London, but they are a very expensive treat for me. So siting with a drink and friends and having a cigar in public has become prohibitively expensive. I guess my original point was that many European countries did not adopt the anti smoking laws quite so fully as we have, allowing freedom of choice. As you say, having seen a few cigar terraces, they shouldn't be too hard to build.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now