Packaging

[Habanos2000]

All other aspects being equal, a nice box would push me in a certain direction. Otherwise my criteria are:

1. Flavor Profile
   
2. Price
   
3. Availability
   
4. Packaging
   

[sg1234]

I would prefer if Habanos ditched the old fashioned and tacky looking dress boxes in favor of the more "clean and simple" design of the SBN, varnished, and lacquered boxes. I also prefer a round cigar to a box pressed one. On the other hand, there are too many good cigars available only in dress boxes to keep me from buying them.

[Strick28]

While this might seem odd coming from me, I can appreciate packaging for what it is worth. I will briefly explain.

If I want a cigar that floats after I have fallen off my jet ski, I buy a cigar in a tubo! I prefer to keep my cigars in slide lid boxes as well. Those are both sound reasons as I see it to endorse certain types of packaging.

The way I read Mazo's post was different however. What I got from the post was that he was asking if you were swayed by the aesthetics of packages? I say yes and no to that.

I see packaging as means to entice a perspective buyer to one product over another. By that, I have reduced it to, "lure the unknowing." Being one of the unknowing, I could be swayed in such a fashion. Therefore packaging may work on me once, and perhaps that is all that matters to some. Once I become one of the knowing, packaging is no more than a storage vessel or a convenience to me.

I love the look of a beautiful red head! A 36 inch rack enhances the package but that may not be enough to keep me coming back if her skull is empty!

I come back to my favorite Cuban cigars for their taste performance and their value. I have a collection of thousands of cigars, not due to boxes or bands... but because of straight performance issues and value for my smoking dollar is one of the issues. With the box and bands costing more than the cigars themselves, I say promote flashy cigars in tubos to attract the first time buyers and suckers. Give the box buyer a break and put his favorite cigars in a 50 cab that the retailers can break down into reasonably price singles, and large cigar consumers can get for a reasonable price. This helps everyone!

I can't help but think that 50 cabs without bands were made for the seasoned cigar smoker like me. They were a means to get the most out of the enclosure dollar cost as I have suggested above. Tabacuba et al is now ignoring my concerns for value with the hopes that new buyers will replace me. They are dead ******* wrong about this. The seasoned smoker has plenty of boxes and sees them as utility items only. He/she wants a good cigar, he knows what he likes and wants and when he buys a box of cigars it is for the cigars and not the box!!!

Those are my thoughts on the matter. -Piggy

I have to agree Sir...I can't smoke the box...

[mazolaman]

Thanks to all for taking part.

Just to be clear -- they are not my thoughts, they are Gladwell's.

Edited to add:

and probably not Gladwell's, either. He's the writer but not the person(s) who did the experiments that led to the conslusion.

They seem a correct conclusion to make.If you look at Coca Cola,Marlboro,end Heinz Beans,Rolls Royce companies are heavily reliant on their branding.

I would be lying if I hadn't been influenced by branding,I think it is a large part of the modern world.

I think the old fashioned packaging of Habanos was just right,and in itself is a bit of a "turn on",Be it the Partagas box motif,or the strange Raphael Gonzales written boxes.

So I suppose I would agree with many,and my original point,that while the packaging is interesting,it won't make me buy it.

In fact,I don't buy Cohiba,would never buy Behike,and am mostly(although not always)"turned off"by the El band....

Some fair points on the functionality of packaging also,I think most prefer the Spanish cedar boxes.

I was also struck by the thought of the joy of entering a LCDH,and seeing some handrolleds from a visiting trocadero,no bands no boxes...they're almost cooler by being naked.

This also has reference to the recent issues faced by Czar and other Australian smokers,with the desire to make all packaging neutral,would this make much difference to their sales?

Habanos seem lately to think that packaging is very important.

Also,I tend to think that redheads with 36 inch top-bollocks are better with empty heads....just my twopence....!

[CanuckSARTech]

Some packaging is better looking than others, but I really don't care about the box or the bands when it comes time to decide if I spend some cash on a particular cigar.

The only thing I would like to see is for every cigar box to be made out of spanish cedar and have a slide lid, for 25 and 50 count boxes alike. The only art I would "need" would be the logo burned in the lid, the same as they do for cabinets. And the vitola's name and quantity of course.

I really don't care for the regular paper covered plywood boxes with a razor thin piece of cedar between the two layers of cigars. If the whole box would always be made out of cedar, it would be a great reason to keep cigars in their original boxes, they would always absorb that wonderful aroma. Now I just keep them in there to know what they are and the box date.

The only thing that makes me drool over a cigar is when it has a beautiful wrapper and an enticing aroma. Nice bands are good, but maybe counts for only 5-10% of my visual appreciation at best.

Before i received a box of Secretos from the czar, i would have told you that i didn't care about packaging. But now that I have seen the horrible glue residue from the sticker ruining my beautiful black cigar box, I can say that i care a little bit about packaging. Just like the CEO of a company wants his beautiful luxury car to be clean and presentable, i want my beautiful box that my cigars are in to be gorgeous too. Yes ultimately the cigars are the most important thing, but it's nice for them to be in a nice box as well. In importance, i would say cigars 99% box 1%, but that 1% still matters

I am very similar to these above two points.

To me, packaging is a part of the product. Like the earlier 7Up example, they are one and the same together, but a beautiful box/jar/packaging doesn't make me come back to a crap cigar for any reason. For me, packaging is probably as high as 20%.

The Partagas P1 jars, the Cohiba Maduro 5 line, LGC MdO series, RA semi-boite-nature boxes and their colour scheme, the newer LGC Cuba regional jars, etc., etc. Especially the re-release of the Boli GMs and the newer Por Larranaga regionals with the two-toned metallic bands. These are all great examples of alluring packaging that draws you into the product.

That said, if the product sucks, it doesn't take long for the packaging luster to disappear, as in above examples of the Noellas jars.

And like others said, those Aussie stickers just ruin a lot of packaging, but that's a whole different layer of the discussion there! Damn government intervention!

But, if the packaging rocks, then the product also then, to me, has a MUCH higher level of a minimum threshold to meet. It has to perform now, if the packaging trumpets it so much. And I think that's where the letdown has been for so many with packaging.

I would love nothing more than to see all boxes be SLB's, varnished and pretty, just like the Cohiba lines, or LGC or Partagas 898's, etc. It's very functional, classic, and dressy, all at the same time. While the paper-wrapped plain boxes can look very nice, I am more apt to enjoy buying the EXACT same cigars, but in a varnished SLB, all-spanish-cedar packaging instead. I want nice looking and functional, together.

To me, that's why certain packaged items, such as the earlier referenced Sancho Panza's I will not go near. Their taste profile leaves a LOT to be desired, there's many better cigars on the market for fractionally better, and then the packaging is downright aweful!!!

[MrGlass]

For me, the packaging is the cherry on top. Sure, it's great when it's pretty, but I'm not buying the cigars for the box or the bands - I'm after the cigar. It would be like going to a restaurant and picking your meal based on the plate it's served on.

[jedipastor]

i would like to vote "I care only about the cigar," but when I thought about it, i think I do give some preference to SLBs over dress boxes, for example. A few months ago I found some HdM EEs on sale, and when I was trying to decide whether the pull the trigger, 2 things made me do it:

1) They came in 10-count boxes

2) It was a nice SLB

As far as bands, I"ll say this: I really appreciate a nice band. But a great hat on a pig is still just a frickin' hat on a pig! When a cigar is awesome, I look past a dumb band, but when a cigar is awesome and has a band I really like (My Father, Opus X, Bolivar, Padilla Dominus, Cohiba--though I think that might be the "iconic" factor), then I appreciate it all the more.

[BobKincaid]

As an American, I have much easier access to NCs. They've been on a packaging and banding binge to which no CC bears even remote comparison. When I see that stuff, I tend to think someone's marketing the appearance more than the cigar. I strongly suspect that in some cases (see the Ave Maria band) the band is actually more costly than the cigar itself, given the low wages of rollers in the DR, Nic, and Honduras. On the other hand, marcas like Tatuaje have a much simpler, CC-style band and the name has become known for boutique quality.

I suspect that what we're seeing w/ CC double-banding, the glitzy Behike band, etc are all responses to the NC trend toward glitz and glamour.

Me, I guess I'm a minimalist. I actually prefer the plain bands. I think there's a pleasant simplicity to the old Upmann band, or the Sancho Panza. Anything more fancy than the Partagas band and I begin to squirm.

[anacostiakat]

As soon as a cigar warms up I tend to remove the band(s). . .

[Ginseng]

Me, I guess I'm a minimalist. I actually prefer the plain bands. I think there's a pleasant simplicity to the old Upmann band, or the Sancho Panza. Anything more fancy than the Partagas band and I begin to squirm.

Tradition. We're talking about tradition. Roots. History. If we can respect and pay homage to that without becoming ossified, then it's the best of the old and the new worlds.

I pretty much stopped paying attention to NC packaging when the CAO Vision came out a few years back with the battery/LED lights in the box. A little too "Fast and Furious" for me.

As soon as a cigar warms up I tend to remove the band(s). . .

For me, only if it interferes with the burn line...otherwise, why would I?

Wilkey

[Stalebread]

Tradition. We're talking about tradition. Roots. History. If we can respect and pay homage to that without becoming ossified, then it's the best of the old and the new worlds.

Yes. This is the challenge.

[mazolaman]

I suppose that's why I'm less keen on newer packaging.Tradition.

I think the original boxing and banding says-

"this is the way we make cigars,we've done this for 150 years,this is the way we will continue to make cigars,we are not affected by whims or trends"

As we all know,the cigar quality goes up and down....but...

I guess I could live with a few "specials",like the Behike.

I guess the skill is keeping it to a low number,so they are special.

I suppose a marketing firm will tell me that the newer packaging has increased sales by blah blah blah....

[Ginseng]

I guess the skill is keeping it to a low number,so they are special.

I suppose a marketing firm will tell me that the newer packaging has increased sales by blah blah blah....

Yes, that is the essential challenge. Once you get into this quick hit, endorphin rush spiral of packaging "innovation" there is no going back. Rather, there is seldom the courage to go back.

Wilkey

[Colt45]

I think that maybe, packaging might help sway opinions with unknowns.....

You know your favorite cigar - if they changed the packaging to the glitziest, or wrapped them in newspaper, you still know the cigar -

perhaps you are not swayed.

But let's say you need to hire a contractor to do some work on your house. One guy shows up in a beat up old truck, sign spray painted

on a sheet of plywood in the back, he's dressed a bit shabbily.

Second guy shows up in a clean, well maintained truck, proper signage, dressed neatly, with references etc. Without knowing either's abilities,

who are you likely to gravitate toward?

[PigFish]

I think that maybe, packaging might help sway opinions with unknowns.....

But let's say you need to hire a contractor to do some work on your house. One guy shows up in a beat up old truck, sign spray painted

on a sheet of plywood in the back, he's dressed a bit shabbily.

...so you have seen me in the neighborhood?

This is a double edged sword my friends. Low bidder often gets the job!

I think that it would do well for many to expand their concept of "marketing" beyond "packaging." While one is a subset of the other, and probably the focus of the thread, marketing as the master set has to include a price structure based on demand. Pricing is a factor beyond boxing.

Just my 2 cts. -Piggy

[mazolaman]

...so you have seen me in the neighborhood?

This is a double edged sword my friends. Low bidder often gets the job!

I think that it would do well for many to expand their concept of "marketing" beyond "packaging." While one is a subset of the other, and probably the focus of the thread, marketing as the master set has to include a price structure based on demand. Pricing is a factor beyond boxing.

Just my 2 cts. -Piggy

Well,the thread is really about packaging,which is,as you state,not only a box to put cigars in,but a part of the marketing tool.

I'm not sure Habanos does much else in terms of mass marketing,I don't see many adverts on tv or radio....or even magazines.

It perhaps more explains their strategy,they know that there will be no advertising allowed in the USA, Europe,and Australia will be too scared of offending the USA embargo by showing any adverts,even though they could.

Maybe the Cuban government will not actually allow external advertising.

Who knows?

However,Cuba knows that the USA,Europe and Australia love their Cigars,and therefore their packaging will make it into their homes.

So perhaps the point of your comment is that the "exclusivity" of buying ELs or REs allows Habanos to up the price.....It's a fairly obvious reason for their current direction.

A visit to my local LCDH recently proved this,walls full of ELs and REs,with maybe 10 or 12 classic Habanos,and these were all Monte,Cohiba,Partagas npthing vaguely interesting,and not one skinny...

It's just a shame they have to remove some great classic cigars.

Never take the lowest bidder....only governments accept the lowest bid,and that's why their projects turn to shite.

I always try to be the middle bid......

[PigFish]

Well,the thread is really about packaging,which is,as you state,not only a box to put cigars in,but a part of the marketing tool.

I'm not sure Habanos does much else in terms of mass marketing,I don't see many adverts on tv or radio....or even magazines.

It perhaps more explains their strategy,they know that there will be no advertising allowed in the USA, Europe,and Australia will be too scared of offending the USA embargo by showing any adverts,even though they could.

Maybe the Cuban government will not actually allow external advertising.

Who knows?

However,Cuba knows that the USA,Europe and Australia love their Cigars,and therefore their packaging will make it into their homes.

So perhaps the point of your comment is that the "exclusivity" of buying ELs or REs allows Habanos to up the price.....It's a fairly obvious reason for their current direction.

A visit to my local LCDH recently proved this,walls full of ELs and REs,with maybe 10 or 12 classic Habanos,and these were all Monte,Cohiba,Partagas npthing vaguely interesting,and not one skinny...

It's just a shame they have to remove some great classic cigars.

Never take the lowest bidder....only governments accept the lowest bid,and that's why their projects turn to shite.

I always try to be the middle bid......

While going a bit off your topic... I think that places like FoH are effective advertising. When I worked for Yamaha we had what was referred to as "coop" money. We could do with it what we liked. We could give motorcycles to professional racers, sponsorships, parts allowances or put up billboards. They recognized that the local boys were better at pitching the products that their customers would favor than corporate was at the international level.

While I don't want to hang this on the tobacconist this advertising has come down to him/her. With tastes aside, a lot of folks depend on their tobacconist to point them to a good cigar, not the best profit margin cigar. This of course is not fully the fault of H SA but could be cured by them. They could establish pricing guidelines and support some cigars at lower prices, with similar percentage profit margins to support the tobacconist in moving certain product lines. The key is in understanding that at the retail level, there is more to product pricing than the wholesale cost of tobacco! A lot of guys ask for help with cigars. Just look at some of the questions. These questions are not being taken care of by the retailers. That is why these (some people) are coming to places like FoH for answers. There is a great lesson here, but H SA is too effin' dense to see it.

I try to avoid saying never!!! -LOL I may find an EL that is a good cigar and I will say so. The past performance steers me away from them. The lowest bid is not the worst bid, but not automatically the best bid either. I read the contract, rely on my experience and look at the exclusions and fine print. I cover the details. I may try the low bidder on a smaller scale. I have an open mind. Bringing this back to cigars, and calling RG or Diplimatico the low bidder; I find myself glad that I was able to look past the prejudice of a pretty face, a nice box and take a shot at the low bidder! The low bidder in this case is a windfall for me!

One thing that I have found in business and in cigars; the cover has little to do with the product inside. In the cigar world, the price has little correlatoin to quality either. If you could just get a great cigar at the high price, I would get off H SA's back about it. But when you get no warranty of performance, no satisfaction guarantee, no track record and instead get spotty performance; you will also get some pissed off customers!

Sorry for the tangent! Cheers mate. -P

[mazolaman]

I guess it's not really tangential,as my original post is related to my distaste for the current HSA desire to go for shiny bands and boxes,which is a part of their current strategy.

And as Colt and others have said,packaging may affect a new smoker.

The votes show that most here are only interested in cigar quality.

I suppose it is a relatively unusual situation with HSA,as they do no advertising themselves,only their retailers can try to "sell"them.

This thread had also reference to the new laws in Australia,which I see someone has posted on today,I was also curious to see if the new law would affect peoples purchases,with the answer possibly being,only new smokers....

[CanuckSARTech]

I pretty much stopped paying attention to NC packaging when the CAO Vision came out a few years back with the battery/LED lights in the box. A little too "Fast and Furious" for me.

LOL. OMG!!!! I remember seeing those when they first came out! Yup, that really did it for me too, the thing that really put me over the top with the realization that NCs were all about the package more than the cigar.

Those were so gawdy, it was laughable!

[Lotusguy]

LOL. OMG!!!! I remember seeing those when they first came out! Yup, that really did it for me too, the thing that really put me over the top with the realization that NCs were all about the package more than the cigar.

Those were so gawdy, it was laughable!

I got a box (for WAY less than MSRP) just because I like bright and shiny things

[mazolaman]

As new members come along all the time.

I thought I'd bump this up again, as I hope it may be of use to retailers (not only czar, as I'm sure many other retailers around the world read this forum), seeing as the packaging is beginning to come under attack.

Perhaps it will give them a clue as to how it will affect their sales, if at all.

[Hohenthal]

...I care only about the cigar itself,and view the shiny packaging etc as a move away from the tradition of Cuban cigars.

Exactly what I think.

Alex

[Ginseng]

In fact, not only do I not care about the packaging, I don't even care about the cigar either. My one and only concern is the smoke itself. That's what it's really all about. It could be issuing from a cigar, a log, or the back end of a duck but if the stream of smoke smells of good, complex, well-aged tobacco, I'm good. Seriously.

Wilkey

[winelover]

I really dislike the new upmann bands and especially not keen on the extra band they put on to just confirm you're smoking a 46 or a 50. I am sure they taste great but I long for the understated brown upmann bands.

Rant over. Good topic Keith. FWIW I do think we are consciously or not influenced by the banding and I'd say it is a real plus point of the new RA LE. I think CCs shouldn't try and emulate NC banding as it takes something away from all of the heritage.

Cheers

G

[Cohiba Stevie]

Thank you very much for sharing your considered thoughts on this. Most edifying, and well stated. :thumbsup:

As for me, at its best, the full experience of the cigar involves every aspect of the Havana from the cigar itself, to the packaging, to some knowledge about the history, the liquid accompaniment, even music from the island. Simply smoking the cigar is an impoverished experience in my mind. I mean, here we are relishing the fruits of a century and more of the Cuban tobacco industry and yet eschewing all of the dress and decoration that has co-evolved with the tube of fermented leaves which is the target of our adoration. As you point out, the cigar is but one aspect of the whole. The most important, perhaps, but organically and rightfully inseparable.

This is a different thing from the question of whether plain versus fancy containers are/should be best, desirable, appropriate. On that point, I seek balance between function, visual and sensory pleasure, as well as a balance between tradition and innovation.

Wilkey

What he said...