Dumb question from a noob

[Smallclub]

I love Guinness Stout. It's flavorful, rich, creamy, etc. But I have some beer-drinking friends who do not like it at all. They prefer beers that are, to me, lacking in character. Does this mean they just can't taste the difference?

Ken, IMO your comparison is inappropriate (both products are too radically different) but it raises an interesting and crucial point:

immediate satisfaction versus education of the taste.

Did you love your very first stout? Your very first glass of red wine? Your first Bolivar?

[Plato]

http://alanboehmer.suite101.com/the-mystery-of-chateau-petrus-a48941

That link will tell you about Petrus. Which is one of the most expensive red wines in the world. It's a mostly Merlot blend. But what makes Petrus so special to wealthy wine snobs around the globe? Certainly Petrus has excellent wine makers. But the thing that makes it really special is its terroir. It's terroir is a blend of things although soil is arguable the most important aspect of terroir. Terroir is the soil (Petrus sits atop this legendary button of clay soil), it's the slope of the land which allows for good drainage, its the climate of the vineyard, it's the soul of the piece of land. No two pieces of land are alike. Does the soil have alot of stones? Alot of clay? Both? Etc. etc.

Its a fascinating concept. Understanding the unique terroir of Cuban tobacco was easy for me since I was into wine long before I got into cigars. People get very very passionate about this concept and it stirs a lot debate in both the wine and cigar world. Understanding terroir is a very important step in understanding wine or cigars. Terroir imparts a totally unique essence to tobacco/grapes. There are no two pieces of land in the world that are identical. That is why cuban cigars are best. They have the best terroir for cigars.

There's plenty of experiments you can do with wine tasting that will showcase terroir and the big, or sometimes suble, effect of terroir on grapes. If your into wine, I'd be glad to tell you a couple different bottles you should taste side by side to get an idea of what im talking about.

[PigFish]

I do have a paper around here somewhere that had some academics performing spectrum analysis on different tobaccos including Cuban. If I can find it I will post it. As far as I can remember the analysis showed that Cuban tobacco did burn differently, meaning displayed additional compounds during the experiments.

This of course would indicate that the samples at least were different. It would not conclude the subjective opinion of taste and no such link was attempted. My taste is acclimated to Cuban tobacco and Cuban cigars. Frankly that is all that matters to me. Additionally I wish my tastes were broader and my opinions less rigid, as H SA et al, the Cuban tobacco monopoly, has all but abandoned me as a customer. I am emphatic about saying Cuban cigars are better. But I am equally emphatic about saying that overall, as a product line they are getting worse. Getting worse to me, means the elimination of superior cigars (coronas and the like) for inferior, albeit higher profit margin cigars. Many would certainly argue the point.

I say smoke what you like, and like what you smoke. You need not rationalize it to anyone else... I don't!. If you don't have a taste for Cuban cigars, don't smoke them! -the Pig

[Stalebread]

Ken, IMO your comparison is inappropriate (both products are too radically different) but it raises an interesting and crucial point:

immediate satisfaction versus education of the taste.

Did you love your very first stout? Your very first glass of red wine? Your first Bolivar?

Actually, I think I did like my first Guinness.

Hell, even if I had an educated palate I would probably go for immediate satisfaction anyway but that's another story.

But, OK, let's suppose an adequate education of the taste over a period of time. Then will we like and dis-like the same things -- cigars, wine, cheese?

[LeafLover]

Why are CC's better? All the latin weather girls across the globe moonlight as cuban cigar rollers and they roll the cuban cigars on their silky thighs.

Seriously, I'm not a firm believer that across the board CC's are better than NC's. Having said that, 95% of my stock is CC's consisting of the CC's I find that are the best of the best. Consistency and construction I definitely have to give to NC's. But flavor-wise, I give it to habanos. But yes, there are some dam good NC's as of late.

Order a box of 898V or Sir Winnies.

[tinknocker924]

order czars robusto sampler its awesome you get a robusto of each of the major marcas and that way when you find a couple you really really like you can narrow it down to the brands you like most and explore their other sizes they offer..

[Guest rob]

When trying to assess the merits and quality of one item against that of another - you need a unit (or units) of measure!

Being that the most important and most discussed unit (flavour) is not easily quantifiable... then arguments such as "which is better" are absolutely silly.

On the other hand, if we're going to discuss whether NC or CC have better all round construction... its pretty clear that the CC's will be a distant second.

Having said that - Cuban cigars ARE worth the effort! I can live with construction problems and inconsistent blending if I'm lucky enough to get those classic flavours one in three times I light one up!

I've got 4 full boxes of expensive Padrons that have remained untouched for nearly 5 years. When I go to my humidor to select a smoke, I glance right past them and pick one of my favourite Havanas. The only time I open the NC's is just when I do my annual check for mould/beetles etc...

[Orion21]

I've got 4 full boxes of expensive Padrons that have remained untouched for nearly 5 years. When I go to my humidor to select a smoke, I glance right past them and pick one of my favourite Havanas. The only time I open the NC's is just when I do my annual check for mould/beetles etc...

I would happily take a box of those 5 year old Padron's off your hands! (Me = hypocrite) LOL But I know what you are saying. My NC's are aging nicely as well.

[Fuzz]

I'm sorry but you guys have it all wrong. It's got nothing to do with the soil, climate, latitude/longitude, position of the fields in relation to the sun, or type of tobacco grown.

It has all to do with Tobacco Fairies. Scoff if you like, but it is the machinations of the Tobacco Fairies, that make Cuban tobacco the best in the world.

[El Presidente]

I have a good mate who only smokes Cuesta Rey No 7 Maduro. We have shared many Cubans over the years but to him the Cuesta Rey No 7 Maduro is the best cigar in the world.

Who am I to call him an ignoramus! Great bloke, we share plenty of laughs, and he is happy!

Re soil composition much has been written about the uniqueness of Cuban Soil but it is heavily generalized. Even in the Vuelta Abajo the soil composition is variable. Also, some fincas have underground aquifers while the majority do not. Makes a big difference in getting a quality crop out in a dry season!

Nicaragua, DR, Cuba have differing soils, differing growing environments (particularly humidity in the season) and it is that aspect which I believe makes the biggest difference. Cuba is an island with its own micro climate (including constant and gentle afternoon sea breezes).

The one thing I am sure is that the richness of Cuban Tobacco has little to do with the Tabacuba. Some times you just get lucky being in the right place. Even they can't screw up the core product

[El Presidente]

It has all to do with Tobacco Fairies. Scoff if you like, but it is the machinations of the Tobacco Fairies, that make Cuban tobacco the best in the world.

Tobacco Fairies

[CanuckSARTech]

Nah, it's all from the sweat glistening off the inner thighs of the nubile beauties that roll our cigars. Mmmmmm.....

Wait a minute...

Thigh sweat???!

[j0z3r]

Nah, it's all from the sweat glistening off the inner thighs of the nubile beauties that roll our cigars. Mmmmmm.....

Wait a minute...

Thigh sweat???!

So that's what the salty taste is...thigh sweat. I guess that's better than butt sweat.

[Fuzz]

Tobacco Fairies

That wasn't the kind of "fairy" I was thinking of.

[j0z3r]

That wasn't the kind of "fairy" I was thinking of.

Perhaps this is the kind of fairy you were talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2rpYYUEExU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[cigcars]

Are you sure of that? Do you know a book here it's stated? Are you aware of any study that demonstrated it?

I'm quite sure it's a myth, a sort of urban (well, rural actualy) legend.

Aww, m-a-a-n-n, grumble, grumble, grumble! Making me have to dig out my "Theo Rudmann's Cigar Pocket Guide" and my Richard Carelton Hacker's "Ultimate Cigar Book" to look for those references - those and other writings that I've read through the YEARS stating that about high Lithium content in Cuban soil. Finally had to go through the quicker guide references on Bing.com and it gave sources from Puff.com, Cubancigarworld.com, etc. ALL stating the high Lithium content in Cuban soil, giving their tobacco that unique flavor and taste. Some day, when it's not 2am in the morning and when I fully come to - I'll LOOK for the pages in my own at home reference books. Picky, picky!

[Stalebread]

Aww, m-a-a-n-n, grumble, grumble, grumble! Making me have to dig out my "Theo Rudmann's Cigar Pocket Guide" and my Richard Carelton Hacker's "Ultimate Cigar Book" to look for those references - those and other writings that I've read through the YEARS stating that about high Lithium content in Cuban soil. Finally had to go through the quicker guide references on Bing.com and it gave sources from Puff.com, Cubancigarworld.com, etc. ALL stating the high Lithium content in Cuban soil, giving their tobacco that unique flavor and taste. Some day, when it's not 2am in the morning and when I fully come to - I'll LOOK for the pages in my own at home reference books. Picky, picky!

I threw away my copy of Hacker's book years ago so I can't check.

Is he (and the other references you list) citing any original, primary source for the lithium content study or is he just repeating what he has heard? Somehow bing.com referring to Puff.com does not exactly inspire my confidence.

[oliverchang514]

I threw away my copy of Hacker's book years ago so I can't check.

Is he (and the other references you list) citing any original, primary source for the lithium content study or is he just repeating what he has heard? Somehow bing.com referring to Puff.com does not exactly inspire my confidence.

Bing.com--> Puff.com is the equivalent(or close) to wikipedia!! Everyone knows wikipedia is the ultimate fact finding source for college essays. If A>B, B>C, then A>C aka Bing>source than trustworthy wikipedia!

My entertainment at 2am..

[cigcars]

I threw away my copy of Hacker's book years ago so I can't check.

Is he (and the other references you list) citing any original, primary source for the lithium content study or is he just repeating what he has heard? Somehow bing.com referring to Puff.com does not exactly inspire my confidence.

*I'm looking, I'm looking, still going through all those pages of books, etc. While I found reference to that earlier comment on the boards about the legendary "Cuban cigars being rolled on the naked thighs of brown skinned young virgins"...I did come across a black & white photo in my 3rd edition R. Carleton Hacker's "The Ultimate Cigar Book" on page 58 of a brown skinned lady with tobacco leaves resting across her thighs...but they were not bare (sorry, guys). And the caption says this probably gave rise to that legend. As I mentioned earlier, this observation about Cuba's soil I came across in my readings through the years about its soil content. But now trying to track down that particular reference for you is giving me lots of work I'll keep searching.

[Stalebread]

* I'll keep searching.

Thanks. I've heard the same thing about the soil and lithium. We all have. It's been repeated and repeated.

I'm just a little skeptical that there's any real science to substantiate what gets repeated.

[brazoseagle]

Here is a post I made on my opinion earlier in the year to a similar subject matter discussion:

I enjoy both, Compared side by side, I think the Best of the Cubans always wins over the Best of the Non-Cubans, but there are a lot of great non-cubans that can stand up against alot of the Cubans now a days. One thing is for sure though, there is no mistaking that authentic Cuban taste ! Many have tried and some have come close, but that is one thing that has not and can not be replicated. But that doesn't mean other flavors can't be just as good. I think it's rediculous when some Non-Cuban makers spend so much time and marketing trying to get into the public's brain that the seed is of Cuban decent, the wrapper is form cuban decent, the recipe was smuggled out from cuba, the family is from cuban decent, and the roller was a famous cuban roller. That's all fine and dandy, but what's great about such products made from the earth is they are leaving out the MOST IMPORTANT KEY to the recipe- The soil and secondly the weather and ambient surroundings. That can't be replicated. The soil that the tobac is grown in in Cuba combined with the surroundings and the weather, is exactly what makes it stand apart. It's just like wine. Does California make some great wine - sure, of course they do, so does Australia, South Africa, South America, and many other places. Would anybody be happy drinking a good quality wine from one of those places - Absolutely, but any one of those regions that tried to produce what they call a "Bordeaux style wine" will fall short, simply because they lack the main ingredient, the soil and weather patterns in the Bordeaux region of France that lends the grapevines such a unique and decedent taste structure. It is the same with cigars. Good flavor is just good flavor and it can be unique to each individuals palate, but there is no mistaking that the Cuban flavor profile is different, unique and one of a kind!

[Colt45]

....but any one of those regions that tried to produce what they call a "Bordeaux style wine" will fall short.....

They can obviously never reproduce Bordeaux, but I'm not so sure about falling short - just ask the French about the Paris tasting of 1976

[brazoseagle]

I was mainly referring to a comparison between high end, premium quality selections.