Discontinued Cigars 2011

[goalie204]

if i recall correctly, trinidads are typically higher priced than similar vitolas of other marcas i believe, but god damnit they're worth it!

[Colt45]

I'd like to hear from the Moderators and other long distinguisheduisted members on how they handled the deletions of past years. Did you guys stock up on your favorites as they were eliminated or did you pursue new releases to replace what was no longer available?

For me, neither - I'm simply buying fewer cigars.

[Stalebread]

For me, neither - I'm simply buying fewer cigars.

Same here. At my current smoking rate, I have enough to last about seven years. Why drive myself crazy trying to decide if I should stock up on this discontinued cigar or that discontinued cigar. On the other hand, I have to admit that I've been giving some thought to getting a box of Rafael Gonzalez Coronas Extra. I've been asking myself is it just because they're discontinued or because I think they're a really fine cigar.

[PigFish]

For me, neither - I'm simply buying fewer cigars.

... well you can look at my join date if that is any consequence. I don't buy **** cigars. H SA is losing me as a customer and has been for long time now.

As stated my rant is not 2011 specific. I have been espousing the same hateful tome regarding H SA et al for a long time now. My argument is not about profiteering, it only appears to be. It is about poor management, stagnant management due to process that stifles individuality and great leaders as a result. I am countering the argument of profitability becasue even though H SA et al pays little to nothing for its labor, essentially abusing its workforce it is still in decline.

The decline is not the result of the ERdM PC (just as an example). It was not because of the Party PC, Party Lonsdale or Party Seleccion Privada... hence proven! They too were merely arguments made to me regarding sales numbers and profitability. Well they are gone and the sales are no better as a result! The problem is with a company run by political nepotism. One team of failures teaches the next team of failures! You don't survive a tough economy with the promotion of failure.

These dumb bastards can't even make an annual delivery date for a dated cigar!

What have I done? I have bought up all the best boxes of cigars that i could afford. The current actions once more add value to my hoard which should please me but it does not. I did not buy cigars as an investment. I don't write about them to add value to that investment. I purchase, smoke and opine for the pleasure of it. I share a cigar, a cigar story and bits of my life for my pleasure and the potential enjoyment of others. The fact that these experiences will be lost within a few years is a disservice not only to those of us who have historically supported faithfully this company, it is a disservice to the heritage of the cigar trade and the pioneering Cuban people who made it what it is.

I find this no different than a barbarian horde storming a museum and ransacking the place. In this light, you might dismiss the folly of the barbarian horde too, as only in it for the profit.-Piggy

[dicko]

Yea, I thought the price point might be the main thing too. But then someone reminded me how much LEs and REs cost ... well, it's priced at just under the Robusto Extra, still $2/stick too high imvho, but not insanely high. And even if someone bought a box in the first couple months after they came out, those boxes would be ... what, 2 years old? That's not really enough time to know for sure if it will be a truly great cigar or not. But fresh ... well, let's just say it's my favorite fresh Habano, and one of only 3 that I even care for with less than 2-years of age.

I really hope there is a loophole here. I haven't purchaed a box because of the price, but have planned to. If they're really done for good, I'll try to get some and just think of them as an LE, only good.

Then again, right now I'm smoking an awesome My Father and it makes me feel good about sending my money to Nicaragua instead.

I reckon the $2/stick overprice is pretty spot on.

I have been buying more NC's now too, much greater range of vitolas and a lot of good stuff out there. Not having to worry about whther you can draw on the thing is a plus too.

I'm with you, but I will also add ring sizes over 47 to the boycott-list. Well, right after I have bought a box of RASSes.

Deleted Bolivars make me angry. I am sorry but I'm not sad about deleting those thick Trinis. (Now everyone wants to kill me... )

I'm in on this >47 boycott.

However, I do love the RASS, and Trini T....lol the main two complaints about cuban cigars, construction and deletions, apply here. From one box to another the RASS is bloody inconsistent and the Trini T is on the chopping block!!!

if i recall correctly, trinidads are typically higher priced than similar vitolas of other marcas i believe, but god damnit they're worth it!

true that, on both counts

[aes8]

... well you can look at my join date if that is any consequence. I don't buy **** cigars. H SA is losing me as a customer and has been for long time now.

As stated my rant is not 2011 specific. I have been espousing the same hateful tome regarding H SA et al for a long time now. My argument is not about profiteering, it only appears to be. It is about poor management, stagnant management due to process that stifles individuality and great leaders as a result. I am countering the argument of profitabilibecausesue even though H SA et al pays little to nothing for its labor, essentially abusing its workforce it is still in decline.

The decline is not the result of the ERdM PC (just as an example). It was not because of the Party PC, Party Lonsdale or Party Seleccion Privada... hence proven! They too were merely arguments made to me regarding sales numbers and profitability. Well they are gone and the sales are no better as a result! The problem is with a company run by political nepotism. One team of failures teaches the next team of failures! You don't survive a tough economy with the promotion of failure.

These dumb bastards can't even make an annual delivery date for a dated cigar!

What have I done? I have bought up all the best boxes of cigars that i could afford. The current actions once more add value to my hoard which should please me but it does not. I did not buy cigars as an investment. I don't write about them to add value to that investment. I purchase, smoke and opine for the pleasure of it. I share a cigar, a cigar story and bits of my life for my pleasure and the potential enjoyment of others. The fact that these experiences will be lost within a few years is a disservice not only to those of us who have historically supported faithfully this company, it is a disservice to the heritage of the cigar trade and the pioneering Cuban people who made it what it is.

I find this no different than a barbarian horde storming a museum and ransacking the place. In this light, you might dismiss the folly of the barbarian horde too, as only in it for the profit.-Piggy

Piggy,

Point well made and taken my friend. I have also followed the strategy of buying as many and as much of my favorite discontinued, quality cigars that I could afford (and it was VERY EXPENSIVE at times).

At this point my humidor is a little "upside down" as I multiple boxes of disconituned favorites but very few current production cigars that are ready to smoke. Hence the '01 Partagas Corona that I'm smoking now, but I can't help but feel that I'm stealing a cigar from my future. I, also, refused to smoke crap.

I was hoping that the discontinuations would stop and for my tastes there isn't much left for them to cut. Packaging is a big concern to me because I only purchase current prodution cigars for aging in cabinets.

I guess the real question that I don't want to face is what happens when they finsih replacing all my favorites with EL's, RE's and Donkey C*ck cigars that I don't care for and refuse to buy???????????

Am I faced with question that I might have to make my existing hoard last??? Will I be force to to HERF, gift, and trade less?????

If I do find something new or existing that I like will I feel compelled to buy a Master Case against the idoit moves of H SA???

Am I begin too dramatic????

[PigFish]

Piggy,

Point well made and taken my friend. I have also followed the strategy of buying as many and as much of my favorite discontinued, quality cigars that I could afford (and it was VERY EXPENSIVE at times).

At this point my humidor is a little "upside down" as I multiple boxes of disconituned favorites but very few current production cigars that are ready to smoke. Hence the '01 Partagas Corona that I'm smoking now, but I can't help but feel that I'm stealing a cigar from my future. I, also, refused to smoke crap.

I was hoping that the discontinuations would stop and for my tastes there isn't much left for them to cut. Packaging is a big concern to me because I only purchase current prodution cigars for aging in cabinets.

I guess the real question that I don't want to face is what happens when they finsih replacing all my favorites with EL's, RE's and Donkey C*ck cigars that I don't care for and refuse to buy???????????

Am I faced with question that I might have to make my existing hoard last??? Will I be force to to HERF, gift, and trade less?????

If I do find something new or existing that I like will I feel compelled to buy a Master Case against the idoit moves of H SA???

Am I begin too dramatic????

I don't think so amigo! You are looking pragmatically at a problem of phase out. You my friend, along with me and many more are simply being phased out!!! We may have to live with it, but we don't have to like it.

As for me, I speak up about it, often against the majority opinion here and other places. I don't sit silently and take my lumps. I opine openly hand honestly as always. I call them like I see them. I actually wish that H SA et al produced really good cigars, regardless of price that I could get behind... but they don't. While I will typically speak up about being gouged price wise, I can acknowledge a good cigar when I smoke it and do.

This company is no longer about achieving any form of quality. Quality to H SA et al, means it draws like a straw, and is of an easily marketable size. That's it!!! A good cigar to them, means it sells, nothing more. This works for a nicotine delivery system such as cigarettes, but this model does not work on the seasoned cigar smoker. Some of us just as soon give up cigars than smoke cigars that are not to our liking. I am one such smoker. I don't have to smoke. If it does not do exactly what I want it to do, I will simply stop doing it!!!

While I have an ample supply to last me probably longer than my life time, I find that I am now, due to the actions of H SA, a smoker also in decline. I am in decline solely based on the H SA et al model. As always that means I see it the way it is. I gift less cigars, sell no cigars and smoke a lot less. I piss and moan a lot; I try to educate and open the minds and eyes of others. That is all that I can do.

I would rather own 100 reputable good and excellent cigars that are all the same size, than a 1000 different ones of varying taste quality. I consider a humidor filled with excellent cigars a "balanced" humidor. Storing mediocre cigars is a waste of space, money and time.

-Piggy

[aes8]

I don't think so amigo! You are looking pragmatically at a problem of phase out. You my friend, along with me and many more are simply being phased out!!! We may have to live with it, but we don't have to like it.

As for me, I speak up about it, often against the majority opinion here and other places. I don't sit silently and take my lumps. I opine openly hand honestly as always. I call them like I see them. I actually wish that H SA et al produced really good cigars, regardless of price that I could get behind... but they don't. While I will typically speak up about being gouged price wise, I can acknowledge a good cigar when I smoke it and do.

This company is no longer about achieving any form of quality. Quality to H SA et al, means it draws like a straw, and is of an easily marketable size. That's it!!! A good cigar to them, means it sells, nothing more. This works for a nicotine delivery system such as cigarettes, but this model does not work on the seasoned cigar smoker. Some of us just as soon give up cigars than smoke cigars that are not to our liking. I am one such smoker. I don't have to smoke. If it does not do exactly what I want it to do, I will simply stop doing it!!!

While I have an ample supply to last me probably longer than my life time, I find that I am now, due to the actions of H SA, a smoker also in decline. I am in decline solely based on the H SA et al model. As always that means I see it the way it is. I gift less cigars, sell no cigars and smoke a lot less. I piss and moan a lot; I try to educate and open the minds and eyes of others. That is all that I can do.

I would rather own 100 reputable good and excellent cigars that are all the same size, than a 1000 different ones of varying taste quality. I consider a humidor filled with excellent cigars a "balanced" humidor. Storing mediocre cigars is a waste of space, money and time.

-Piggy

PHASED OUT!! PHASE OUT!! This is worse than hearing your hot girlfriend that you are deeply in love with saying "we need to talk".........

Although I do feel you are correct. Mental adjustments now underway. Looks like I'll need to start pursuing other vices to offset this one. Red wine is too expenisve, if this industry was able to support Ken, I know I can't afford it

I'm going to pour a glass of scotch and run my hands gently over my cabinets of Partagas Lonsdales and RA898s.

[Colt45]

Red wine is too expenisve...

I'll disagree a little here - there are many, many great values in wine out there, and consistent to boot

One thing I might ask - for those who are truly put off, are fed up with the direction they've taken over the past decade -

why give them any more of your money? Why stock up on anything, why add anything to their coffers?

Why let them dictate - show them the gate.

(it's not lost on me that we are also talking about our host's livelihood here)

[aes8]

I'll disagree a little here - there are many, many great values in wine out there, and consistent to boot

One thing I might ask - for those who are truly put off, are fed up with the direction they've taken over the past decade -

why give them any more of your money? Why stock up on anything, why add anything to their coffers?

Why let them dictate - show them the gate.

(it's not lost on me that we are also talking about our host's livelihood here)

Colt,

Please suggest some reds for me to try. I usually like big, red cabs. I'd like to start with No. Cal wines since I'm close and they seem to be eaiser to understand. I'd like to start out in the $20/bottle range until I can get good understanding of what I like, what is good to drink now and what is worth laying down for a nap. (I have a feeling that I might reget this part later).

As for the stocking up question, I have mostly been stocking up on discontinued lines pre 2008. I didn't get CC savey until after that time frame when many lines have been discontinued and I am now forced play catch up in the after-market where the proceeds don't go to H SA. As for the current production lines, I figure that I'll never see them again at this price so its now or never.

[brassie00]

Just got onto the Boli CE and find them consistently amazing smoke .Now the GDMF tossers have gone and put them on the chopping block.

Give them **** when your talking to them Rob.

[Cig]

Wow. What a bummer! I will be waiting on the official word regarding the Trinidad Robustos. I will be very disappointed if they really kill that one.

[CBL]

Then again, right now I'm smoking an awesome My Father and it makes me feel good about sending my money to Nicaragua instead.

One of the few NC's I REALLY enjoy and call me crazy, but the first time I smoked the My Father Le Bijou it reminded me of a Trinidad Robusto T, so maybe HSA is right, they can be substituted I should probably invest in a box of these some day.

Rob, ever thought about changing the name of the site to Friends of Cigars? Because as far as friends go, Habanos has broken into your house, stole all your stuff, took a crap on your furniture, broke everything it had stolen and tried to sell it back to you at a higher price and it has repeated to do so year in year out.... Plus FOC has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

[tydra]

had to scour through the whole of the UAE to get a half cab of BCE, dated 97. now i have 3 boxes of 25s, think from 01, in addition to the half cab.

how can these idiots discontinue such an amazing cigar?! i'll be crying while smoking each and every one :-(

[Puros Y Vino]

Colt,

Please suggest some reds for me to try. I usually like big, red cabs. I'd like to start with No. Cal wines since I'm close and they seem to be eaiser to understand. I'd like to start out in the $20/bottle range until I can get good understanding of what I like, what is good to drink now and what is worth laying down for a nap. (I have a feeling that I might reget this part later).

I'll chime in on a red. One of my current "drink now" bottles is a Red Diamond Cab/Sauv. It's out of Washington state and is very bold and rich. The 2008/9 vintages are slightly different but deliver enjoyment equally. If you're going to let some sleep, lay down the 2008 vintage. Oh and it's under $20. About $14 in Canada, probably a lot cheaper in the USA.

[nelsontcp]

Hahaha!!! Discontinued these great cigars and turn them into overpriced RE and LE in a few years time!!!

Nice move, Habanos!!!

[Matt Day]

What I want to know instead of getting rid of the bce why not ditch the bolivar no 1 instead then release a tubo version of the bce? As the bce is a far better blend than the no1 and this act would up sales my fear is that there are now virtually no coronas left what are habanos going to go when tastes moves away from big gauges

[BobKincaid]

As a noob to the collection process (and, let's face it, a smoker and not a saver of cigars), I'm particularly annoyed. One of THE reasons for moving through the marcas and vitolas is to find things that matter to one's personal taste and come back to them as appropriate.

Early on, I sensed the Boli CE would be something I enjoyed. It was the second box I ordered from the Czar. I was not disappointed. I was, in fact, thrilled. To find out it's now "pinin' for the fjords" is downright infuriating.

Meanwhile, I've enjoyed the Fonseca Cosacos and was looking forward to trying the #1. Now I have to decide whether that's worth the risk against laying in a few more Boli CEs. That sucks.

Having seen a number of Piggy's posts (and I have real respect for his expertise in cigars, especially his "No RE/LE" position) it seems some of his better analysis is negatively colored by the fact that he's always got his finger on the "Commies!" trigger:

Personally, I don't think his thesis holds up in this instance. In fact, I think it's just the opposite. The opening of more Central American labor space post-Reagan (the U.S. had a little more luck with Nicaragua than with Cuba), expanded production availabilities and facilities. Suddenly, the boutique NC brands began popping up like mushrooms after a spring rain. This, in conjunction with sorely misguided "free trade" agreements, in turn, helped compel HSA into a more market-based economic model. No longer could they simply put the "old guard" marcas and vitolas out there and let them stand on their well-earned reputations. They had to start fooling with glitzy bands, hoity-toity boxes and other crap that has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether a "cigar is only a cigar."

I think the HSA letter to the Aussie gov't. making reference to market forces making it impossible for them to make "plain" boxes solely for the relatively small Aussie market gives some credence to my argument. HSA is not immune to the idea of marketing. It's as likely that they're simply not very good at it. They haven't had to be. Sometimes being the absolute best at something can be a significant inhibition in the free-market wonderland of marketing over substance. Some NSFW words in the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo

If you want, for instance, to know why cigars are trending more toward short, fat "donkey co*k" cigars, look no further than the non-Cuban manufacturers appealing to and shaping the U.S. market, with emphasis on "shaping." American cigar smokers are being TOLD they want those pornolas. Because so many are being produced in conjunction with a marketing scheme, that's what folks are buying.

On this thread, I've seen a number of folks discussing how to get HSA to change its direction. I agree with those who say it's not likely to happen. I think that's the case because HSA is being driven by those selfsame "market forces" to which our friend Piggy thinks HSA oblivious.

It has been mentioned above, and I concur, that entry of Cuban cigars into the American market post-embargo (come, Lord Stogie!) may well be behind some of these sadly misguided decisions.

[Lotusguy]

Tee-hee "pornolas" - good one

[jawofboston]

I see a growing opportunity for Czar custom cigars in the corona and lonsdale size categories. What are there - two coronas left now??!?!?!?!?! QdS and Monte 3?

[Wicky]

I think Bob K has nailed it.

We all are pissed off because Cuban cigars are the last bastion of "real" cigars for "real" cigar smokers. Now they are being compromised to fit the American model. Bigger is better and if it sparkles brightly enough it surely must be the best.

When I began smoking. I could visit my local shop, buy short skinnys, coronas,perfectos,corona gordas,lonsdales,and if I felt like a large cigar it would be a Rothchild,Churchill or a DC. Many wonderful cigars were available at an honest price. Yeah there was the occasional freak cigar. But no one really smoked them seriously.

Then the boom hit and things began to change. The cigars I loved were slowly but surely discontinued. And then the over priced boutique cigars appeared. And then the fatty trend began. And I wondered what the hell was wrong with what we had? I still wonder that. And now I have to wonder it again.

Welcome to America Cuba. Thank you for taking my money.

And I agree with LeighFermor. Lets see some real cigars again!

[Colt45]

Welcome to America Cuba.

I kind of disagree here - if Habanos are producing cigars for a market they have no legitimate share of, they truly have lost it.

But they do seem to sell an awful lot of Canonazos, Sublimes, Behikes, etc, etc, etc. Someone, somewhere where they do have a legit

market is ponying up.....

P.S. if the Cubans want to bastardize their procuct line and destroy what legacy they have left, as far as I'm

concerned, it's on them and no one else.

[Wicky]

yes, I agree Colt. But I do think they are doing well enough now to know what the rest the goldmine is still to be had when they are able to access the US market freely.

[BobKincaid]

I kind of disagree here - if Habanos are producing cigars for a market they have no legitimate share of, they truly have lost it.

But they do seem to sell an awful lot of Canonazos, Sublimes, Behikes, etc, etc, etc. Someone, somewhere where they do have a legit

market is ponying up.....

P.S. if the Cubans want to bastardize their procuct line and destroy what legacy they have left, as far as I'm

concerned, it's on them and no one else.

I don't think they're directly marketing to the U.S., but rather responding to market trends CREATED in the U.S. and fostered by the boutique and high-end vanity marcas hustling those pornolas. In addition, given some of the defrosting that has taken place, it's possible, as others have noted on other threads, that we might actually see an end to the embargo in the next decade, and especially once Fidel goes on to his "reward."

It is worth remembering that U.S. spycraft at one time included attempts not only to make Fidel's beard fall out or kill him with a poison cigar, but also to destroy the Cuban tobacco crop entirely. I think some of the same attitudes (consider who's creating those boutique marcas)are still at work. By shaping the "consumer demand," treasured CC vitolas are being wiped out in response.

[#2 man]

I have to admit every year when this list comes out I get closer and closer to Piggy's POV.

I'll second that !!!