Would this apply to cigars as well?

[Montaigut]

Interesting article in today's Guardian...

You don't think that?... Nah, now way... right?

Expensive wine and cheap plonk taste the same to most people

In a blind taste test, volunteers were unable to distinguish between expensive and cheap wine

People fool themselves into thinking expensive wines taste better than cheap ones, says psychologist Richard Wiseman. An expensive wine may well have a full body, a delicate nose and good legs, but the odds are your brain will never know.

A survey of hundreds of drinkers found that on average people could tell good wine from plonk no more often than if they had simply guessed.

In the blind taste test, 578 people commented on a variety of red and white wines ranging from a £3.49 bottle of Claret to a £29.99 bottle of champagne. The researchers categorised inexpensive wines as costing £5 and less, while expensive bottles were £10 and more.

The study found that people correctly distinguished between cheap and expensive white wines only 53% of the time, and only 47% of the time for red wines. The overall result suggests a 50:50 chance of identifying a wine as expensive or cheap based on taste alone – the same odds as flipping a coin.

Richard Wiseman, a psychologist at Hertfordshire University, conducted the survey at the Edinburgh International Science Festival.

"People just could not tell the difference between cheap and expensive wine," he said. "When you know the answer, you fool yourself into thinking you would be able to tell the difference, but most people simply can't."

All of the drinkers who took part in the survey were attending the science festival, but Wiseman claims the group was unlikely to be any worse at wine tasting than a cross-section of the general public.

"The real surprise is that the more expensive wines were double or three times the price of the cheaper ones. Normally when a product is that much more expensive, you would expect to be able to tell the difference," Wiseman said.

People scored best when deciding between two bottles of Pinot Grigio, with 59% correctly deciding which was which. The Claret, which cost either £3.49 or £15.99, fooled most people with only 39% correctly identifying which they had tasted.

In 2008, a study led by Adrian North, a psychologist at Heriot-Watt University in Edinburgh, claimed that music helped boost the flavour of certain wines. North, who was commissioned by a Chilean winemaker, reported that Cabernet Sauvignon was most affected by "powerful and heavy" music, while Chardonnay benefited from "zingy and refreshing" sounds.

[Hash]

choclatey,cream,cedar,salty,honey

[Fuzz AI]

I'd disagree with that. I got served a glass of wine that I was told was a "good drop". Tasted like crushed musk rats! Grabbed the bottle and found out it was one a cheap ass $4.00 wine.

[IShotAManInReno]

An even bigger joke than this are those Riedel wine glasses that are designed for a specific grape variety because it is engineered to "hit the tongue just right." What kind of fool actually pay $60 for a "Pinot Noir" glass because it enhances the flavor of that wine so much more than a "Cabernet" glass would? Give me a break...

That's like having a different lighter for a Robusto because the flame strikes the foot so much better than a lighter designed for a corona.

I will say this, though. Wine has a vary narrow margin of variability, whereas cigars can have significant variability within the SAME BOX. So yes, there are certainly many examples of us paying up for a premium cigar that fails to deliver better than a comparatively cheaper stick would.

[mm12]

I don't know much about wine, but it seems like this test is comparing generic cheap wine and random moderately priced wine. If they compared generic cheap wine to good moderately priced wine (say only well-regarded $15-$50 bottles) or to $100+ wine, I think you'd see a marked difference in the results.

From my limited experience, super cheap wine sucks, but if I were to randomly pick out a $20 bottle of wine, it would probably suck too.

[melies]

An even bigger joke than this are those Riedel wine glasses that are designed for a specific grape variety because it is engineered to "hit the tongue just right." What kind of fool actually pay $60 for a "Pinot Noir" glass because it enhances the flavor of that wine so much more than a "Cabernet" glass would? Give me a break...

That's like having a different lighter for a Robusto because the flame strikes the foot so much better than a lighter designed for a corona.

I will say this, though. Wine has a vary narrow margin of variability, whereas cigars can have significant variability within the SAME BOX. So yes, there are certainly many examples of us paying up for a premium cigar that fails to deliver better than a comparatively cheaper stick would.

I don't want to be disrespectful in any way but have you used those Riedel wine glasses? the sommelier or vinum kind? they really do make a difference but it's not in the tongue so much as it is in the nose. If you think that wine or any spirit smellls or tastes the same from any kind of glass then you are in for a surprise my friend. And the lighter analogy would be more appropriate if you would compare a match, a butane lighter or a zippo.

Also it's not that people can't distinguish between good wine or plunk or good or bad cigars, it's more that most people are not really that interested in trying to get the flavors or distinguish anything. People are just happy by drinking red or white or by having a "good cuban cigar"

I have been giving wine tastings for a long time (more than 15 years) and the hardest part is to get people to really open up their senses and connect with what they are trying and not to connect with their wallet and in a fast food society it is really hard to get people to do just that. They want instant gratification not something that makes them think.

just my 2c

[IShotAManInReno]

I don't want to be disrespectful in any way but have you used those Riedel wine glasses?

Yes, I am one of those fools. I have special Riedel wine glasses that I only use for vintage port. But I have other crystal wine glasses (technically "water" glasses according to the manufacturer) that work well for both red and white wine regardless of varietal. My point is that a Merlot, Cabernet, Pinot Noir glass is not going to make any difference in the wine experience because they are all red wine varieties.

My mind was opened when I went to a tapas bar in Spain and drank house wine from regular old kitchen glasses and thought it was the greatest experience.

My mind was expanded even further when I attended a blind tasting and found that none of us (myself included) could consistently and accurately identify grape varieties beyond red and white.

Blind tastings are a humbling experience. I highly recommend you try anything you think you like (cigars, wine, chocolate, sex, driving) blindfolded and you'll discover that you are not as experienced as you thought you were.

[melies]

Yes, I am one of those fools. I have special Riedel wine glasses that I only use for vintage port. But I have other crystal wine glasses (technically "water" glasses according to the manufacturer) that work well for both red and white wine regardless of varietal. My point is that a Merlot, Cabernet, Pinot Noir glass is not going to make any difference in the wine experience because they are all red wine varieties.

My mind was opened when I went to a tapas bar in Spain and drank house wine from regular old kitchen glasses and thought it was the greatest experience.

My mind was expanded even further when I attended a blind tasting and found that none of us (myself included) could consistently and accurately identify grape varieties beyond red and white.

Blind tastings are a humbling experience. I highly recommend you try anything you think you like (cigars, wine, chocolate, sex, driving) blindfolded and you'll discover that you are not as experienced as you thought you were.

What series of Riedel do you have? they are very different one from the other the thing is that it does make a difference, Pinot noir has nothing to do with a tempranillo (spain national grape) for that matter. I am from Spain (living in México now) all my life since I was little I have had wine from those old kitchen glasses and yes I'm with you it's a great experience and something about the simpleness of it makes the heart feel easy

Wine is not an easy task (ask Ken ) and I have been giving blind tastings not just attending them (not meaning to sound rude, my English is not that great) and yes I can identify grape varietals, not always and not with all regions, also lot's of wines are coupages (grape mixtures) but the fun of it is in the study.

I am not saying that I am the best and greatest wine taster in the world, but I defend myself and I stand by Riedel glasses, but there is also another side to the story one is when you are trying great wines, and searching for the brightest star of them all, the other is when you are just having wine or fresh wine like a Riveiro or a Lambrusco with friends and family just for the fun of the conversation and friendship. In those cases A simple glass and love is all that you need.

And yes I have had lot's of blind tastings, cigar tastings, chocolate, even food and aromas and its a great and humbling experience as you say but I think I'll pass in the blind driving tasting hahahaha I still like my face as it is

BTW I am an Oenologist cheers mate

[mazolaman]

One of the nicest wine drinking experiences I have had was drinking reasonable Spanish wine from a little terracotta beaker...in Spain it seemed to work really well.

I think there is much variability in certain wine areas,Bordeaux chief among them!I've spent 15 quid on wine that tasted no better than a 7 quid bottle.

But then,I'm more an onanist than an oenologist!

This does make me laugh re cigars,as for a supposedly communist country,Cuba has certainly figured out that there is a premium to be had from marketing "superior" brands or lines.I think there are only two ELs I've smoked that were clearly worthy of special billing.

[melies]

But then,I'm more an onanist than an oenologist!

You my friend has just won the internet

[sloth]

I bet I could find enough people in my home town that think Boones Farm is good wine and, in a blind taste test, realize they prefer Four Loko Fruit Punch over box wine Merlot.

[melies]

Here is James Suckling's opinion on the article http://www.jamessuckling.com/my-blog-we-ca...nk-and-not.html

[michael69]

What series of Riedel do you have? they are very different one from the other the thing is that it does make a difference, Pinot noir has nothing to do with a tempranillo (spain national grape) for that matter. I am from Spain (living in México now) all my life since I was little I have had wine from those old kitchen glasses and yes I'm with you it's a great experience and something about the simpleness of it makes the heart feel easy

Wine is not an easy task (ask Ken ) and I have been giving blind tastings not just attending them (not meaning to sound rude, my English is not that great) and yes I can identify grape varietals, not always and not with all regions, also lot's of wines are coupages (grape mixtures) but the fun of it is in the study.

I am not saying that I am the best and greatest wine taster in the world, but I defend myself and I stand by Riedel glasses, but there is also another side to the story one is when you are trying great wines, and searching for the brightest star of them all, the other is when you are just having wine or fresh wine like a Riveiro or a Lambrusco with friends and family just for the fun of the conversation and friendship. In those cases A simple glass and love is all that you need.

And yes I have had lot's of blind tastings, cigar tastings, chocolate, even food and aromas and its a great and humbling experience as you say but I think I'll pass in the blind driving tasting hahahaha I still like my face as it is

BTW I am an Oenologist cheers mate

I have sets of these from the sommeliers hand-blown collection: single malt, VSOP cognac, XO Cognac (these last two are the best for whisky, not the single malt which isn't great), Madeira (for rum)....

I also have a selection of liqueur glasses, the port, water and sherry. the only one I don't have from the sommeliers is the bourbon, that's one I have from the bar collection.

I'm not a wine guy, but I am a whisky, cognac and rum guy! I can tell that these glasses make a big, big difference (and no, it's not all in the mind....)

believe me, I've done alot of experimenting.

conclusion is, the Cognac VSOP and the XO from the sommeliers collection are the very best I have ever used for whisky (as well as cognac). The sweet wine glass is, similarly, the best I have ever used for sipping rum.

the single malt is..... crap actually (as admitted to by Riedel's boss I believe!)

I have the regular versions of most of these too and they are definitely not as good (size and shape less refined, glass thicker).

my 2cents!

[michael69]

Interesting article in today's Guardian...

You don't think that?... Nah, now way... right?

Expensive wine and cheap plonk taste the same to most people

In a blind taste test, volunteers were unable to distinguish between expensive and cheap wine

People fool themselves into thinking expensive wines taste better than cheap ones, says psychologist Richard Wiseman. An expensive wine may well have a full body, a delicate nose and good legs, but the odds are your brain will never know.

A survey of hundreds of drinkers found that on average people could tell good wine from plonk no more often than if they had simply guessed.

In the blind taste test, 578 people commented on a variety of red and white wines ranging from a £3.49 bottle of Claret to a £29.99 bottle of champagne. The researchers categorised inexpensive wines as costing £5 and less, while expensive bottles were £10 and more.

The study found that people correctly distinguished between cheap and expensive white wines only 53% of the time, and only 47% of the time for red wines. The overall result suggests a 50:50 chance of identifying a wine as expensive or cheap based on taste alone – the same odds as flipping a coin.

Richard Wiseman, a psychologist at Hertfordshire University, conducted the survey at the Edinburgh International Science Festival.

"People just could not tell the difference between cheap and expensive wine," he said. "When you know the answer, you fool yourself into thinking you would be able to tell the difference, but most people simply can't."

All of the drinkers who took part in the survey were attending the science festival, but Wiseman claims the group was unlikely to be any worse at wine tasting than a cross-section of the general public.

"The real surprise is that the more expensive wines were double or three times the price of the cheaper ones. Normally when a product is that much more expensive, you would expect to be able to tell the difference," Wiseman said.

People scored best when deciding between two bottles of Pinot Grigio, with 59% correctly deciding which was which. The Claret, which cost either £3.49 or £15.99, fooled most people with only 39% correctly identifying which they had tasted.

In 2008, a study led by Adrian North, a psychologist at Heriot-Watt University in Edinburgh, claimed that music helped boost the flavour of certain wines. North, who was commissioned by a Chilean winemaker, reported that Cabernet Sauvignon was most affected by "powerful and heavy" music, while Chardonnay benefited from "zingy and refreshing" sounds.

http://www.jamessuckling.com/my-blog-we-ca...nk-and-not.html

[Ryan]

While there are often differences between expensive and cheap wines. Price doesn't necessarily reflect quality. One postive review from the right person can affect the price of a wine to a much greater extent than the cost and effort involved in getting the stuff into the bottle.

Whether wines differ more because of what's in the glass or what's in our heads, that's always up for debate, usually heated. There are vested interests on both sides.

Same for cigars and just about every other premium product where sensory perception is involved in its enjoyment.

It's subjective and that's part of what makes it enjoyable. A french writer once defined "Beauty" as "The promise of happiness". While it is replacing one subjective experience with another, at least happiness is easier to quantify for most of us.

Regarding wine tasting, a mathematician and physicist, Leonard Mlodinow, wrote a book about randomness called "The Drunkard's Walk" in which he briefly discusses Robert Parker's and other wine critics' tasting scores. Interesting reading if you're into that stuff.

[Colt45]

Price doesn't necessarily reflect quality.....

Bingo!

[david9985]

I read this article from the Guardian yesterday too. Not that we want to get into "if a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it..." depths of psychology. But... many factors affect the way we view something and our enjoyment of it. Maybe if we pay more for a bottle of wine or a cigar it seems to taste better to us. In the same way, if we smoke a certain cigar for a special occasion, then that smoke may hold special memories and create a fondness for what you in other circumstances may have considered a poor smoke.

In the end, price should have no bearing on the quality, but it is unavoidable that, in the mind at least, price can affect taste and enjoyment.