On the fly analysis. Partagas Jar Cigar

[PigFish]

On another thread Rob and Smithy have reviewed the Partagas Jar cigars. I am curious about those interested in the "3 and 5'er" splits.

What interested you in the cigar? Was it natural curiosity based on the cigar alone? Was it the review? Was it the packaging? Is it important that you just knew how it was packaged and you did not actually get the packaging?

What kept you from buying more? Would you have bought more if the cigars were less money?

I am just interested in exploring the mindset here and whether packaging has anything to do with your decision to buy these. I am also curious if the packaging discouraged you from buying more.

Thanks for opining! -Data Piggy

[CBL]

I would LOVE a jar of these! I've been from airport to airport looking for these when they were announced to be available only at Duty Free shops but with no luck finding them (it turned out they trashed the original idea and just made them randomly available)

I'm a huge Partagas fan and, against your likening I'm sure, I am a bit of a ***** when it comes to collectible stuff As for the price, I can't afford one right now as my summer cigar expenses have been through the roof, but rest assure if I can ever get my hands on a jar I'll jump on it like a fat kid on the last cookie in the tin!

As for the 3 packs, this cigar won't be easily available for single purchases so this is a great and economic opportunity to try one/three. And honestly if this cigar doesn't impress me the least bit, I'll never consider the jar ever again

[sandholm]

Now, i will get a jar, but these are my answers

What interested you in the cigar?

A new cigar from one of the best brands, aren't you interested?

Was it natural curiosity based on the cigar alone?

Yes (and No), I am 100% interested in the cigar, but I am also interested in what the paged (which is different) will do to the cigar. Why were so many cigars packaged in jars before but not now.

Was it the review?

If Rob had said that the cigar rated at 82, chucked it over the railing and vomited in the ash tray, I think i would have passed on it (jar or no jar, I am after the cigar and the experiment)

Was it the packaging?

Well, its is a different package, this will make the ageing different from a box, but i cant smoke the jar, the cigar is still the main thing, but the jar will effect the cigar. Would I buy it if it come in a box, probably.

Is it important that you just knew how it was packaged and you did not actually get the packaging?

Is it important to know where the tobaco is from, Cuba or Honduras? Is it important to know the box code when it comes to cigars? How many here wouldnt love a code that identify a roller. Is it important to know where a wine comes from? Knowledge is never wrong, but still it comes down to how the cigar taste.

What kept you from buying more?

The price (and a tiny bit: a storage problem..)

Would you have bought more if the cigars were less money?

Would you buy more Cohiba if it was less money? It cost money to produce a new cigar, LE, RE or what ever, it cost money to produce the jar. This is not a Cohiba Robusto which they have rolled for years. I want cigars from Cuba to evolve and therefore i want them to come up with newand interesting cigars. Is there a brag factor in the cigar business, of course, just look at brands as Davidoff/Opus (who ever makes thous)/Cohiba and so on. I rather like the RE and LE releases because Habanos at least try to do something exiting and new. You cant see this as a product which you try to press down the production cost and make as many as possible of, this is a product which is one of a kind, where production cost are high due to the fact that they only will make a limited numbers. (I could rant here about product development and the cycle a product goes through, but i skip that)

I say "Friends let friends smoke EL's & RE so the cigar business evolves...", and I smoke EL & RE because I want to try new things.

[PigFish]

Now, i will get a jar, but these are my answers

A new cigar from one of the best brands, aren't you interested?

Yes (and No), I am 100% interested in the cigar, but I am also interested in what the paged (which is different) will do to the cigar. Why were so many cigars packaged in jars before but not now.

If Rob had said that the cigar rated at 82, chucked it over the railing and vomited in the ash tray, I think i would have passed on it (jar or no jar, I am after the cigar and the experiment)

Well, its is a different package, this will make the ageing different from a box, but i cant smoke the jar, the cigar is still the main thing, but the jar will effect the cigar. Would I buy it if it come in a box, probably.

Is it important to know where the tobaco is from, Cuba or Honduras? Is it important to know the box code when it comes to cigars? How many here wouldnt love a code that identify a roller. Is it important to know where a wine comes from? Knowledge is never wrong, but still it comes down to how the cigar taste.

The price (and a tiny bit: a storage problem..)

Would you buy more Cohiba if it was less money? It cost money to produce a new cigar, LE, RE or what ever, it cost money to produce the jar. This is not a Cohiba Robusto which they have rolled for years. I want cigars from Cuba to evolve and therefore i want them to come up with newand interesting cigars. Is there a brag factor in the cigar business, of course, just look at brands as Davidoff/Opus (who ever makes thous)/Cohiba and so on. I rather like the RE and LE releases because Habanos at least try to do something exiting and new. You cant see this as a product which you try to press down the production cost and make as many as possible of, this is a product which is one of a kind, where production cost are high due to the fact that they only will make a limited numbers. (I could rant here about product development and the cycle a product goes through, but i skip that)

I say "Friends let friends smoke EL's & RE so the cigar business evolves...", and I smoke EL & RE because I want to try new things.

It looks as though some of these questions are more than general and addressed at me. I am curious as how the thread plays out without reintroducing my opinion and that is why I am not answering them now. If they are addressed at me I want you to know that I am not ignoring them or being rude. I will be happy to answer at the the end of the thread but wanted to get the mindset of those who are willing to put up the money for these and why.

I suppose it is not really fair to exclude those who are not interested but it is not my intent to always stir up negativity about new products and that is why I chose not to include questions that would bait the negative responses in my query. While I can't stop the naysayers from opining, it was not my intent to stir them up. Being a 'leading' naysayer, I thought it best to keep my opinion to myself. -Piggy

[El Presidente]

On another thread Rob and Smithy have reviewed the Partagas Jar cigars. I am curious about those interested in the "3 and 5'er" splits.

What interested you in the cigar? Was it natural curiosity based on the cigar alone? Was it the review? Was it the packaging? Is it important that you just knew how it was packaged and you did not actually get the packaging?

What kept you from buying more? Would you have bought more if the cigars were less money?

I am just interested in exploring the mindset here and whether packaging has anything to do with your decision to buy these. I am also curious if the packaging discouraged you from buying more.

Thanks for opining! -Data Piggy

OOOOOH....OOOOOOH Pick Me!!!! Pick Me!!!!

I don't buy the book collections or specialty humidors. I did buy this Jar.

1. It looks hot. Perfect for a bar or study. It is a little piece of art that will always give you a warm fuzzy and one that you will have for the rest of your life.

2. The fact that the cigars are very good is a bonus. It would be great if they sold refills !

3. The price point is not too bad. Average out the cost of a unique cigar after applying a value of $300-$350 for the Jar itself (not cost Piggy..what a Partagas Punter would pay for a collectible).

[sandholm]

It looks as though some of these questions are more than general and addressed at me. I am curious as how the thread plays out without reintroducing my opinion and that is why I am not answering them now. If they are addressed at me I want you to know that I am not ignoring them or being rude. I will be happy to answer at the the end of the thread but wanted to get the mindset of those who are willing to put up the money for these and why.

Hi, sorry, I first want to point out that I am not after you as a person, sorry if you got that impression. The questions/arguemnt should be seen as the resons why I am wiling to spend money on these cigars.

I suppose it is not really fair to exclude those who are not interested but it is not my intent to always stir up negativity about new products and that is why I chose not to include questions that would bait the negative responses in my query. While I can't stop the naysayers from opining, it was not my intent to stir them up. Being a 'leading' naysayer, I thought it best to keep my opinion to myself. -Piggy

The questions should more been seen as an argumentative method, not a direct questions, if you want to give your opinion on them, sure, I would gladly read them.

As the president I have never bought the books, I have some singles, but I just think they are way to expensive, but i still want some sticks from them. Same with cuban davidoff, I can never justify the price of them, but i still have some sticks.

So please, let us know what you think of the topic.

(for the "Friends let friends smoke EL's & RE so the cigar business evolves..." you set yourself up for that with your signature and the topic

[PigFish]

Hi, sorry, I first want to point out that I am not after you as a person, sorry if you got that impression. The questions/arguemnt should be seen as the resons why I am wiling to spend money on these cigars.

The questions should more been seen as an argumentative method, not a direct questions, if you want to give your opinion on them, sure, I would gladly read them.

As the president I have never bought the books, I have some singles, but I just think they are way to expensive, but i still want some sticks from them. Same with cuban davidoff, I can never justify the price of them, but i still have some sticks.

So please, let us know what you think of the topic.

(for the "Friends let friends smoke EL's & RE so the cigar business evolves..." you set yourself up for that with your signature and the topic

LOL- Listen mate, I set myself up every time I opine! I am not afraid to share (my opinions or other things) that is for sure. I was not accusing you of calling me out, and would not mind it if you were, that's what makes interesting conversation. I am not a protected class!!! I was answering you straight, that I did not want to pollute the water and start my usual, predictable string of criticisms. I did not want it to appear that I was unwilling to answer direct questions.

We are often on the topic of "special" or "limited" cigars. I like to see it spelled out by others if they will buy anything at any price, or whether they would have bought more or less of these at a price point etc. I am curious.

I also like to check my mindset against those of other smokers. I am always open to persuasive arguments either way and want to see how I am placed within the general populous.

It is easy to pick on anything and once it starts it is easy for folks to jump on the bandwagon. I was not going to provide the wagon! Cheers, Piggy

[El Presidente]

I also like to check my mindset against those of other smokers. I am always open to persuasive arguments either way and want to see how I am placed within the general populous.

You really need to find out?

Holy mother of God let me call you!

[PigFish]

You really need to find out?

Holy mother of God let me call you!

... it would be about time!!! I think you need an attitude adjustment!!! I was gonna' say, tell me all about myself... then I came to my senses!.

By the way... I am gonna' send you an email. I have got a question for ya' -R

[Guest rob]

What interested you in the cigar? The brand and the vitola

Was it natural curiosity based on the cigar alone? No. I liked the look of the jar. Needed some nice cigar related "art" in my house.

Was it the review? Not at all.

Was it the packaging? Answered above.

Is it important that you just knew how it was packaged and you did not actually get the packaging? Not at all. I want to try them.

What kept you from buying more? My missus.

Would you have bought more if the cigars were less money? Perhaps.

[MIKA27]

ROBWhat interested you in the cigar? The brand and the vitola

Was it natural curiosity based on the cigar alone? No. I liked the look of the jar. Needed some nice cigar related "art" in my house.

Was it the review? Not at all.

Was it the packaging? Answered above.

Is it important that you just knew how it was packaged and you did not actually get the packaging? Not at all. I want to try them.

What kept you from buying more? My missus.

Would you have bought more if the cigars were less money? Perhaps

Hi Piggy.

I completely concur with Rob 100%.

For me, I just really wish to try out the cigar in itself. I love the Serie P2's and the P1's have me interested. I love Partagas!

Whilst I was in Chile, my wifes cousin is an art deco collector and found in her house was an old vintage Partagas Cigar jar that was made out of a real tree trunk? I was told it was Circa 1950.

So.....to have the Serie P1 jar would indeed by nice as it would last a life time BUT I don't feel it's worth forking out so much money at the moment for 'a' jar. Whilst I say this, I do know myself and may cave in to temptation anyway.

[Wil]

It's good to try new things!

[Leopolis Semper Fidelis]

What interested you in the cigar? Was it natural curiosity based on the cigar alone? Was it the review? Was it the packaging? Is it important that you just knew how it was packaged and you did not actually get the packaging?

I simply wanted to try something new. The review brought my attention to this vitola. If it had been unfavourable, I wouldn't have considered the P 1. The packaging had no bearing on my decision.

What kept you from buying more? Would you have bought more if the cigars were less money?

I wouldn't want to shell out on something without having sampled it first.

I am just interested in exploring the mindset here and whether packaging has anything to do with your decision to buy these. I am also curious if the packaging discouraged you from buying more.

Thanks for opining! -Data Piggy

[Guest rob]

So Data Piggy... the results of this study?

[Habanakane21]

When I first heard that this jar was going to hit the market I was all set to buy one. Then I saw the price. Wasn't going to happen. Then to my amazement the 3/5 samplers were being offered. At the same time I watched the review by the boys and it sealed the deal. It wasn't a huge investment so I'm happy.

[PigFish]

So Data Piggy... the results of this study?

First Rob I was hoping more would reply but perhaps the lack of a broad consensus of replies represents the essence of the answer in and of itself. Of course it could be that many don't give a **** and that many smokers are not entheuuistic about these or I have just poorly prepared the thread and there is little interest in addressing it due to how I crafted the questions. I think it best to let the thread fester a bit longer coming out of the weekend to see if it can attract more replies.

As it is I am always interested in cigar related marketing data and I was looking to see if there was going to be outstanding support for trying new things regardless of cost. I was interested to see how many of our "proletariat" smokers, of which I consider myself, were going to try to get in on these after analyzing what they would be getting for the money. Furthermore I like to attempt to profile some of our personalities; who thinks like me and who doesn't and sometimes it takes numerous queries to get people to speak up about things. The answers, I would hope, would be of interest to everyone and not just me and that is at least part of the reason for the queries. Lets give it a little longer even though the thread does not really appear to strike a real chord. -Piggy

[El Presidente]

As it is I am always interested in cigar related marketing data and I was looking to see if there was going to be outstanding support for trying new things regardless of cost. I was interested to see how many of our "proletariat" smokers, of which I consider myself, were going to try to get in on these after analyzing what they would be getting for the money. Furthermore I like to attempt to profile some of our personalities; who thinks like me and who doesn't and sometimes it takes numerous queries to get people to speak up about things. The answers, I would hope, would be of interest to everyone and not just me and that is at least part of the reason for the queries. Lets give it a little longer even though the thread does not really appear to strike a real chord. -Piggy

Piggy.

Assume the cigar market as a Piramide structure.

This release and others is targeted at the top of the Piramide. By breaking bulk and offering samplers we are spreading that to the next few tiers but not to the base.

If HSA only sold say 5000 jars globally they would consider it a success and I am quite sure they will achieve that.

Top of the Piramide buyers will be motivated by various factors or a combination thereof:

1. Uniqueness /certain exclusivity.

2. Visuals (Jar).

3. Desire to own this cigar in a unique presentation.

To the majority (the rest of the piramide) it will pose no real interest.

I don't have any problem in HSA targeting this top of the piramide ith these releases. I have a problem when they take away the structure which supports the base.

[Leopolis Semper Fidelis]

I was interested to see how many of our "proletariat" smokers, of which I consider myself, were going to try to get in on these after analyzing what they would be getting for the money. -Piggy

I consider myself to be of the proletariat as well.

[CanuckSARTech]

When I first heard that this jar was going to hit the market I was all set to buy one. Then I saw the price. Wasn't going to happen.

LOL. Me exactly.

When I heard about this release about a year and a half ago, I think when they were first announced maybe February of last year by H S.A., I started bugging some of my contacts. "Duty Free only" be damned, I figured. I figured that some of my local LCDH / HH Canada contacts could maybe get ahold of one for me. Then, I was also put in contact with another LCDH retailer out of London, England, and I finally heard back from Ajay earlier this spring, and he told me the cost.

Gulp. No fricken' way, not right now.

Especially with the Dip 4's disappearing, and some other stuff that I want to stock up on while I still can for the consumption of the future decades, why would I spend $700 or so on a jar with 25 cigars, when I can spend that and get 3, 4, or 5 boxes of some other good stuff that I want to get? I really had to mentally weigh it out - is the container/jar worth 50% of the cost of this? Is it worth another box or two of cigars?

Well, in a word or two - yes, but not right now.

I do fully intend to get a jar of these. And like El Pres said, the fact that it is in the jar does definitely up the "must have" factor. For me, it's not necessarily for the collectibility or show-off-your-wares aspect of it. But, I'm simply very interested in seeing the progression of these in the jar. Years ago, all kinds of cigars were stored and sold in these smaller collectible jars and glass containers. To see the air-tight development of these, and especially with the quality that H S.A. has been rolling out these last 3 years or so, should be very intriguing indeed.

I'm a big fan of the D4's, and while I like the P2's, they have been a bit hit-or-miss for me. And, I wouldn't think that they would make these just a shortened P2 - I'm hoping there's a bit of a blend uniqueness here, even from the tasting notes that I've seen so far, something a bit closer to a D4 maybe. But, either way, the uniqueness of the storage conditions make me look forward to it.

But for now, I'll sit back and watch on here for others enjoying it. I'm stocking up on other stuff this fall. It will be interesting, however, when I go to Cuba this November to see if I can resist the temptation there, depending on if they have any available there and then what the pricepoint of it would be on the island.

An interesting note for me - if Partagas hadn't built up the reputation of the Series line (D4 & P2), I don't think they could have done this, especially not at this pricepoint. Even with all of the other great Partagas stuff out there, and the huge fan base that they have, I don't think that they could do this P1 without the solid base that they have built with the P2 ahead of it (and D4 too). This builds on, and gets it's high value from, the solid foundation of the other Serie releases.

Good thread, Piggy. Thanks.

[PigFish]

Well, I guess this thread is dead!

My opinion, here goes.

I am a punter that likes the jar! If it were priced right I would like to own one. I have to agree with Rob on that one. His price and my price are different and today so is my economic situation. Those two factors make me an admirer and not an owner. I'll live through the disappointment, I think... -LOL

What's it worth; about $40 to $50 bucks! Yeah, that's it! At $300 there is Elie Blue or Limoges porcelain. The cigar, well there is an interest as there is with all CC's. I am an enthusiast and certainly have a rooted desire to smoke any new or old CC. That enthusiasm has real world economics associated with it. In fact the economics govern the process. These are simply too expensive for what they represent. I could go into a rationale about how I see it, but that is a waste of time. Lets just say I would rather own a box of La Puntas, another limited production belicosos, that does have a reputation already as an excellent cigar.

Sandy (nickname) above made a comment regarding Partagas as one of the best brands, or words to that effect. I am not looking at the post so please forgive me for not getting it exactly as written. I look at brands differently my friend. Partagas is just the name on the box and the band to me. The individuality of each cigar, analyzed via a number of criteria, of which I won't bother you with today, is what motivates me to buy a cigar. Putting Partagas on it means almost nothing in and of itself, to me at least. I mean what's a Partagas? There is no exclusive Partagas factory where Partagas cigars are exclusively rolled. There is no exclusively Partagas tobacco, or Partagas blenders and rollers, managers and employees. There is no real Partagas pride or identity!!! Partagas is a name used by a nationalized cigar enterprise to go on its yellow boxes. The rollers of Patagas cigars are not even told what they are rolling! As individuals we can see what we want to see in Cuban Partagas cigars. You see a great brand (assumption based on your comments), I see a commonly over produced CC where the lesser produced models are criticized and cancelled. With the exception of the 898 the Shorts and the SdC (still indicated on H SA site as active), with lack of regard for commercial success and an assessment based only on the pleasures of my smoking... Partagas as a line is currently a failure! The successful Partagas line included, the Sel. Privada, the coronas, the lonsdale, the PC to name a few. With the best of them gone or scheduled for deletion they are not what they used to be. I cannot judge them by what they once were but what they are; a few individual cigars with red bands that I still like, that is until those few are also cancelled as well.

-Piggy

[ChanceSchmerr]

It's a heck of a jar, Fellas. It looks fantastic, something that would be proudly displayed in anyone's parlour or living room as a prized conversation piece. Is it worth 300$ to me? Heck no. Are the cigars + Jar worth hundreds more to me? Heck no!! It's a nice looking Jar, but like so many others on here, I can't justify 300$ for a porcelain jar, any more than I can justify $110 CAD for a Behike 56 or $1800 for a Habanos Cigar "Book Collection" release. Habanos keeps putting these out, and I can see why - they see themselves as a luxury product producer, so they continue to place (and price) themselves squarely in that market.

How I see Habanos SA's thinking

Cigars are a luxury! The're smoked by Robb Report readers who drive Jaguars and Golf thrice weekly at the Country Club! We can keep coming our with products priced ridiculously high, because even with the global recession, the upper 5% is still obscenely rich, and they will buy our products!

Perhaps, given the unending crusade by the Anti-tobacco lobbyists, there will come a time when the casual cigar smoker, who smokes for enjoyment and relaxation, and not because of the rarity or expense of his cigars, is simply priced and outlawed out of existence, and all that will be left of cigar smokers will be those with remaining stashes and rich folks who can still afford the "luxury". BUT THAT TIME HAS NOT COME YET, nor do I ever hope it will come! Habanos seems to have set themselves up for a market state that isn't yet in place (the absence of the casual smoker vice the 'tycoon' type), and by doing so, are actually causing that end state to occur faster. The Chicken before the egg!!!! I'm with Ray - I smoke for the enjoyment of a good cigar, not to enjoy the rarity of it! If I did, my reviews would go like this-

Partagas Corona

Vintage - 2001

Taste - The cigar was plugged and tasted rather bland. I struggled through to smoke it, and was left with an empty feeling inside.

Rarity - this cigar was discontinued in 2006. I can't find them anywhere anymore, and when I do, they are so very expensive! It must be an awesome smoke to be so difficult to find!

Rating - 96

Enough Piggy-style ranting - on to the topic at hand. I'd love to be able to try a few of these cigars. They look great, and although I generally gravitate towards thinner ring gauge cigars these days, I do enjoy some churchills, my A-sized SP Sanchos, Monte Sublimes and a lot of the Torpedo cigars I come across. I love to try anything new and exciting, so I do make an effort to give the LE's and RE's I can find a try by buying a single here and there. I just find the LE's to be more and more disappointment more than anything. The PL Belicosos Extra RE was marvelous, I can't wait to see what more age does to them. I'm sure these cigars would be great too - I just can't try everything that comes out new each year with Habanos - with so many LE/RE/special edition smokes - you really need to pick and choose! I have already chosed to go after the PL Dalias when they are out, and Intend to Get some of the RA Belicosos from Germany once I can afford to do so - but without severe discounts or an unlimited pocket book, I really have to pick and choose what I buy these days!

I have been in a discontinued-cigar-craze these last 10 months or so. As Lisa or Rob can attest from my Czar Locker contents, they have been the focus of my cigar purchases for that time. That's not because of the rarity per say, but more to ensure that I don't lose out on some of the best cigars I've ever tried. The remaining discontinued's I'd like to get have proven impossible to find, I have very little confidence I will find them anymore without some significant travel or risky purchases with online venders I don't trust as much as I do our gracious hosts here. If I didn't like the Diplo 4's - I wouldn't get them no matter how rare they were. It just happens that I love Coronas/PC/Lonsdales, the vast majority of which have been discontinued.

So - for the cigars in question -

-I have not purchased a jar or a sampler

-My decision is not based on the packaging or the rarity, simply the economics that determine that i can't try every last limited/special edition cigar, and at the end of the day I'd like a lot more to try the PL Dalias and RA Belicoso RE Germany instead of these

-I love cigars that have been boxed under the Partagas Marque - I just find that they really have become a great test case for the future of Habanos SA - Smaller, thinner ring gauge cigars are now mostly former Hand Finished cigars like Coronas Jr, Aristocrats, etc, and the remaining handmades are mostly bigger cigars like PSD4, SP2, and 898 (which survives as the benchmark for the brand). Gone are the Coronas, Lonsdales and other greats that didn't sell. Boo hoo that they are gone, the market drives what remains. I accept that, and won't belabour the point any longer. All I know is that I like better what they chose to discontinue.

I love a good rant. Hope I wasn't too late to get mine in here, Ray!

[PigFish]

It's a heck of a jar, Fellas. It looks fantastic, something that would be proudly displayed in anyone's parlour or living room as a prized conversation piece. Is it worth 300$ to me? Heck no. Are the cigars + Jar worth hundreds more to me? Heck no!! It's a nice looking Jar, but like so many others on here, I can't justify 300$ for a porcelain jar, any more than I can justify $110 CAD for a Behike 56 or $1800 for a Habanos Cigar "Book Collection" release. Habanos keeps putting these out, and I can see why - they see themselves as a luxury product producer, so they continue to place (and price) themselves squarely in that market.

How I see Habanos SA's thinking

Cigars are a luxury! The're smoked by Robb Report readers who drive Jaguars and Golf thrice weekly at the Country Club! We can keep coming our with products priced ridiculously high, because even with the global recession, the upper 5% is still obscenely rich, and they will buy our products!

Perhaps, given the unending crusade by the Anti-tobacco lobbyists, there will come a time when the casual cigar smoker, who smokes for enjoyment and relaxation, and not because of the rarity or expense of his cigars, is simply priced and outlawed out of existence, and all that will be left of cigar smokers will be those with remaining stashes and rich folks who can still afford the "luxury". BUT THAT TIME HAS NOT COME YET, nor do I ever hope it will come! Habanos seems to have set themselves up for a market state that isn't yet in place (the absence of the casual smoker vice the 'tycoon' type), and by doing so, are actually causing that end state to occur faster. The Chicken before the egg!!!! I'm with Ray - I smoke for the enjoyment of a good cigar, not to enjoy the rarity of it! If I did, my reviews would go like this-

Partagas Corona

Vintage - 2001

Taste - The cigar was plugged and tasted rather bland. I struggled through to smoke it, and was left with an empty feeling inside.

Rarity - this cigar was discontinued in 2006. I can't find them anywhere anymore, and when I do, they are so very expensive! It must be an awesome smoke to be so difficult to find!

Rating - 96

Enough Piggy-style ranting - on to the topic at hand. I'd love to be able to try a few of these cigars. They look great, and although I generally gravitate towards thinner ring gauge cigars these days, I do enjoy some churchills, my A-sized SP Sanchos, Monte Sublimes and a lot of the Torpedo cigars I come across. I love to try anything new and exciting, so I do make an effort to give the LE's and RE's I can find a try by buying a single here and there. I just find the LE's to be more and more disappointment more than anything. The PL Belicosos Extra RE was marvelous, I can't wait to see what more age does to them. I'm sure these cigars would be great too - I just can't try everything that comes out new each year with Habanos - with so many LE/RE/special edition smokes - you really need to pick and choose! I have already chosed to go after the PL Dalias when they are out, and Intend to Get some of the RA Belicosos from Germany once I can afford to do so - but without severe discounts or an unlimited pocket book, I really have to pick and choose what I buy these days!

I have been in a discontinued-cigar-craze these last 10 months or so. As Lisa or Rob can attest from my Czar Locker contents, they have been the focus of my cigar purchases for that time. That's not because of the rarity per say, but more to ensure that I don't lose out on some of the best cigars I've ever tried. The remaining discontinued's I'd like to get have proven impossible to find, I have very little confidence I will find them anymore without some significant travel or risky purchases with online venders I don't trust as much as I do our gracious hosts here. If I didn't like the Diplo 4's - I wouldn't get them no matter how rare they were. It just happens that I love Coronas/PC/Lonsdales, the vast majority of which have been discontinued.

So - for the cigars in question -

-I have not purchased a jar or a sampler

-My decision is not based on the packaging or the rarity, simply the economics that determine that i can't try every last limited/special edition cigar, and at the end of the day I'd like a lot more to try the PL Dalias and RA Belicoso RE Germany instead of these

-I love cigars that have been boxed under the Partagas Marque - I just find that they really have become a great test case for the future of Habanos SA - Smaller, thinner ring gauge cigars are now mostly former Hand Finished cigars like Coronas Jr, Aristocrats, etc, and the remaining handmades are mostly bigger cigars like PSD4, SP2, and 898 (which survives as the benchmark for the brand). Gone are the Coronas, Lonsdales and other greats that didn't sell. Boo hoo that they are gone, the market drives what remains. I accept that, and won't belabour the point any longer. All I know is that I like better what they chose to discontinue.

I love a good rant. Hope I wasn't too late to get mine in here, Ray!

Always welcome mate! As far at the Party coronas, like all CC's they can be on or off. I still have a few nesting in another box of coronas somewhere and when I next set eyes on them I will pull one out for you! The shame of the deletions in not in my personal loss, but for those who never knew of what they missed. They say ignorance is bliss. I call it a damn shame! The Partagas coronas was a simple, elegant and often time excellent cigar. While modest of stature, it could be a lion at heart. The average working man or woman could attain the lion, or a den of same. There in lies the loss! -

[khomeinist]

Dear Sir. I did not post in this thread because the bait was a bit too obvious. But now that you have sprayed your buckshot (so to speak) allow me a few counters.

I really don't think that somebody buying a 3-5 pack of SP1s is the culprit when we talk of deletions and some of the negative trends in the industry. The problem is that the deleted cigars were not selling. I know we are in agreement that too many classics have been cut, but I would prefer not to gaze bitterly at my fellow consumers. Some people have had plugged thin gauge cigars. Others clearly associated ring gauge with masculinity (as embarrassing as this may be...lol). I think what we need to do as a community is educate each other about the VARIETY of cigars that can be enjoyed for different situations. I am being educated every week. I friend of mine gifted me a bag of 2009 PSD4 (a cigar I have never liked nor respected) and I have to admit that the flavors were there and that it was an outstanding cigar. Do I feel the need to buy a lot of robustos? No. But I see that purpose that this vitola can have for many consumers. If consumers can see that UTILITY of having a varied humidor....future market conditions might allow for more thin gauge cigars and (hopefully) a reintroduction of certain deleted vitolas.

Partagas for me is defined by certain flavors and particular vitolas. I would agree that HSAs apparent disregard for historical vitolas hurts the Cuban brands going forward. As others have mentioned, poorly-selling vitolas can be put out intermittently to supply the connoisseur market with the hopes that market conditions might change (OF COURSE THEY WILL) in the nearby future. I like branding as it pertains to the cigar industry IF the goal is to maintain flavor profiles and historical context. I do believe that HSA is losing the plot a bit with Behike, SP whatever, Mag 666, Monte McOpen, etc. The brands will become silly avenues for brain-dead marketing schemes unless we work as a community to define what we want to consume and spread our discussions outward.

In closing, we are in agreement that the industry is astray. However, I have NO faith that Monte McOpen Capitalism will bring back deleted vitolas. Do you really think that international investors in a glorious, right-wing Cuba would give a rat's bum about 42 ring gauge cigars? Capitalists are going to waive the mareva and the global marketplace will fall to its knees? Ha. Things would likely get more foolish if Imperial was running the entire show. Cobiha Oscuro. Partagas Nub. H. Upmann My Uncle Frank. Bolivar infused with urinal cake essence. Individualizing the brands may or may not help anything. Looking at the NC market....I have little faith.

Please don't shoot socialists. Many capitalists are no better. Its all about what is inside man...SNIFF.

[El Presidente]

Horses for Courses

I don't get upset when HSA add a new unique item such as the Partagas P1 Jar. Each man/woman has their own set of priorities to judge its worth. Some think it is great value (a number of members here have purchased two). Others believe overpriced. I like the Jar, I like the cigar. They have done a good job. HSA twists no ones arm to purchase one. They will sell their quota, they got this one right.

I get upset at discontinuations of great/hallmark cigars due to lack of sales when nothing was done to support these cigars.

Do HSA Listen? Well they did earlier this year when we as a community wrote literally hundreds of letters to the Havana Execs stating our disillusionment. Number of cigars announced this year for deletion: None.

That is only half the battle. We have to get some back but the beast has at least "stopped and propped" and had a look at what the market has said. Perhaps it is our fault as consumers? We ***** and complain on forums but that letter writing program took effort by individuals who spent time and money.

Perhaps it is time for the Habanos Consumers Association. A global entity of individuals whom intelligently agitate HSA for the good of the heritage of Cuban cigars.

For it to be a successful organization, angst needs to be pulled from the agenda. Price/class warfare needs to be pulled from the agenda and recognition made that Habanos lovers come from all levels of the pricing piramide.

[CanuckSARTech]

Here here, El Pres. Well said.

And, regarding Khomeinist's post, and "Monte McOpen" - funniest visualization ever. Well done.

"...Partagas Nub. H. Upmann My Uncle Frank. Partagas Nub. H. Upmann My Uncle Frank...."