Who owns a pistol/firearm?

[Fuzz]

Anyone have any experience with the SIG Sauer P229? I've shot the P226 a few times and found it a really nice, comfortable shooter. I've managed to get some really tight groupings.

And to justify this topic... can anyone recommend a good smoke when hunting?

[El Presidente]

  cellinisart said:

What is this topic doing here

This Thread is sponsored by the NRA

[Wiley]

Rifles and shotgun, yes. Pistol, not yet.

I lust after this:

Uberti 1873 Cattleman, a faithful clone of the Colt Single Action Army.

Beautiful and a pleasure to hold.

[PointSource]

I carry the Sig Sauer P238 .380. I can fit it right in my front pocket. I carry it 95% of the time.

[finecigar]

This is a very special gun- actually not in terms of price but where it has been. I keep it in a working condition and easily located where if and when it needs to be used, it will be used properly. I do not mess around with guns- if I were to pull my pistol out, it would be used officially and one would be left dead.

It is a Hungarian Femaru Model 37 M Pistol caliber .380 acp.

A side-arm for the Hungarian armed forces prior to 1945. A beautiful gun that has been customized to my standards.

[brutusthebuckeye]

Springfield 1911 Mil-Spec...45 ACP....

[tigger]

I believe I've posted this photo elsewhere.

I have fewer guns than I used to, but still have more than I need.

[SethG]

  rob said:

used to also have:

* H&K USP 9mm Pistol

I have the H&K myself but in .45, can't believe how low the recoil is, more like a 9mm and easy to keep on track. No brainer for me, love that gun!

Doesn't Walther have a good one for conceal options? PPK?

[Arzakon]

I own a Kimber Raptor 1911 like another poster, but have shot just about every major manufacturer under the sun. Its all about what feels good to you. I don't like the way a glock feels in my hand, and dislike the trigger action on them. I prefer a 1911 or a Sig for myself, but its all about what feels good to you. Don't worry too much about caliber even if its for defense. Despite what a million people on the internet will argue about, if you hit someone center of mass with a 9mm or a .45 it will take their attention from harming you to survival immediately. That's only if you didn't incapacitate them already by puncturing a lung or major artery which either round will do equally well.

[GP012]

Between 9mm, .40 or 45ACP, don't worry about knockdown or stopping power or all of those gimmicks, try a few models & calibers and purchase what is most comfortable for you. 10rds of 45ACP won't be worth a damn if you can't control the recoil, and vice versa.

I have a Sig 1911 right now, and will be purchasing a Glock 19 in the future after owning a 17 in the past.

[La Suerte]

My first post, hope I don't contravene etiquette!

Glock 19 = Machine made.

CZ-75 SP-01 Shadow = Hand Rolled.

[jacksfull]

  La Suerte said:

My first post, hope I don't contravene etiquette!

Glock 19 = Machine made.

CZ-75 SP-01 Shadow = Hand Rolled.

LOL

Nice analogy.

And welcome!

[PigFish]

...hmmm.... Do I smoke a lonsdale or a coronas???

I could write a book on this... people have already. While I don't own one of every handgun in the world and there are many semi-composites now available and some may have benefits that I have overlooked because of my lack of knowledge about them; I would stick with Glocks, but I shoot Glocks rather well. I own several.

1911's... not for a beginner. Some folks can't cycle the slide, others have grip problems in a panic situation causing the grip safety to disengage and not fire. This is one reason that many competitive shooters would pin the grip safety. The controls are all over the place, they silhouette and hang on clothing. They can be highly accurate... I have several made by some of the worlds best pisltolsmiths that are wonderful firearms... for competition! Single action autos are dangerous for those new to handgun shooting. I would not carry a single action auto anymore, not with the fine choices we have now and the 1911 Browning auto is without a doubt my favorite handgun. Nothing double taps better than a compensated 1911 in 38 Super! But I don't think that is what you are after.

Revolvers are the easiest to operate but there are pros and cons to them as well. They can be defeated by one grabbing the cylinder in a double action mode. They always have a live round under the hammer unless you load them one short. They can be damaged by mishandling, slamming the cylinder like you see on the movies, or by twisting the crane. The hammers can catch on clothing etc... they often spit! Despite all those things if a female will shot the weapon they are a good choice for simplicity and the small frame and choice of cartridges.

I could go on and on about Glocks. I disliked them for many years thinking they were cheap because they were made of plastic. I was invited to a Glock shoot some 20 years ago and borrowed one to shoot. I shot 1000 round of my reloads out of the borrowed gun on a Saturday and was shooting my own on Sunday. I placed 26th out of 300 plus shooters with a gun I had never shot before that day! I still have that gun, now with a little custom work and it fires as good as the day I bought it.

If you want to see some of the benefits of Glocks, given the time I will take one apart on the forum. The firearm has only a handful of moving parts. It has no safety yet is always safe even in condition one. There are meant to fire in the worst of condtions and they do! The only thing you don't want to do with one is oil the firing pin!

Don't buy a 9mm. The round is underpowered, ask the FBI. While I don't like shooting Glocks in real, real high performance derivations, like the 10mm, the 40 S&W is a perfect auto handgun round. The inventor of the 40 S&W built a custom combat gun for me before he went to work for S&W and I learned a lot about the cartridge from him and from reloading my own. Back then it was a wildcat called the Centimeter. The 40 Smith and Wesson should be your choice.

Be careful shooting reloads in a Glcok. All the Glocks I have ever encounterd have tight chambers. Each reloaded round should be dropped into the chamber of the removed barrel before firing to be sure it chambers correctly. Any slight rub should cull the round. 9mm's are the most finicky.

If you want to know more you can PM me your phone number and I will give you an earful more if you have not had enough already. Take a firearms safety course. Learn how to shoot and learn well and alway keep your FA pointed in a safe direction. IT IS ALWAYS LOADED!!!!

Best, Piggy

[bunburyist]

There seem to be some knowledgeable people here regarding stopping power of 9mm. I'd quite like to hear you guys elaborate on why you think it is / isn't underpowered please.

[Arzakon]

  bunburyist said:

There seem to be some knowledgeable people here regarding stopping power of 9mm. I'd quite like to hear you guys elaborate on why you think it is / isn't underpowered please.

9mm will penetrate any part of the body as well as any larger caliber and making a 9mm (.354 inch) vs a .45 inch diameter hole in someone's head/heart/lung makes little difference. Likewise a poorly placed (leg, gut, pinky finger) shot with either round will create similar amounts of pain for the attacker.

There is no such thing as "stopping power" as the mass of any handgun projectile is insufficient to overcome the mass of the object (another person) it is being fired into, despite its speed. People fall down when they get shot due to shock.

A benefit of a 9mm handgun over a .45 is a larger magazine size due to the fact that you can usually get a double stacked magazine with 15+ rounds rather than 7-10 rounds of .45 in a similar sized 1911. In most situations you won't be firing that many shots so I'll stick with "doesn't matter" on the 9mm vs .45 debate.

[PigFish]

  bunburyist said:

There seem to be some knowledgeable people here regarding stopping power of 9mm. I'd quite like to hear you guys elaborate on why you think it is / isn't underpowered please.

I am sure that you can find all kinds of data on the net about terminal ballistics, bullet design, kinetic energy and tissue damage. Knock down power is a myth... that is correct. Indication by inference that since any bullet can kill you... they are therefore all the same is incorrect.

Like a broad-head arrow can cause more tissue damage and deeper penetration than a sharp stick bullet design, lead and gilding metal, have material design characteristics that have a real life limited design envelope of performance. Drop a bullet on the floor and it may ding. Shoot it at 800 FPS and it may penetrate, shoot it at 1400 FPS and it is fragmented and destroys large amounts of tissue upon impact. Shoot the same bullet, if you could, at 4000 FPS and the air strips the jacket and blows the bullet up in the air!

Like all things in this world there are trade offs. I will choose to use a high performance cartridge over a low performance one even if it mean I get to miss less!!!! Many places do not allow you to shoot large game with .22 caliber cartridges (not 22 rimfire). Why? Because even at the 3000 to 4000 FPS velocities of the 220 Swift or the 22-250 and others, statistically the cartridges don't perform well enough to provide humane one shot kills leading to lost game. Bullet velocity is not everything... terminal energy IS. Bullets must penetrate, they must also carry enough energy downrange to fully expand and impart massive tissue damage in order to reliably make a fatal shot an incapacitating shot.

There is a difference between a fatal shot and and incapacitating shot. Ask anyone in law enforcement or the military who has had return fire from an injured target that later died!

-Piggy

[PigFish]

Alright I did a little work for you.

I took two samples out of a well known and established reloading guide. I took two bullets of similar weights 9mm 147gr and 10mm (40 cal) 155gr. I used the published ballistic coefficient data, the hottest load listed at the published velocity. I walked it over to Hornady's ballistic calculator and this is what I got.

I picked a nice "long" range handgun shot at 50 yards. This is a good shot for the test barrels and your handgun at 4" bbl length.

See what you see. The down range terminal energy of the two cartridges is substantial. It is actually more than 25%.

What would you rather shoot if the guy is shooting back?

10mm Data:

[jsd]

  Fuzz said:

Anyone have any experience with the SIG Sauer P229? I've shot the P226 a few times and found it a really nice, comfortable shooter. I've managed to get some really tight groupings.

And to justify this topic... can anyone recommend a good smoke when hunting?

I have a 229 in .40. Only shot a few times but I really like it. A few friends in law enforcement carry the 226. Can't go wrong with Sig.

[Trevor2118]

For what is worth, the NSW Police Force (Australia) previously used the 9mm Glock 17 but have now changed to the .40S&W Glock 22 (15 rounds).

I have fired the Glock 17 but not the 22, so I can't comment.

[Arzakon]

  PigFish said:

What would you rather shoot if the guy is shooting back?

A gun that I feel I can fire accurately, comfortably, and know will fire reliably is heads and tails above caliber. I have owned a Sig P229/9MM, Ruger P94/.40, and a Kimber .45 and for around the house I could not care less which one I picked up to fire at someone. Even the type of safety/firing is more important to me (Ability to carry the Sig/Ruger chambered but double action first shot being a major plus for conceal carry in my opinion). I am leaving out anything lower than 9mm as .22 is laughable and even .32 is questionable. I don't think I would feel uncomfortable even shooting .380, I just haven't bothered as guns in that class don't give you any real benefit over 9mm.

Another point for 9mm would be that it is about 50% cheaper to shoot than .45ACP. I haven't bought .40S&W in a while but it always was more expensive than 9mm as well. Cheaper ammo means you can shoot more for less money which means you have more practice. Practice is incredibly important when it comes down to your life on the line situation.

I guess I'm not addressing the point, but I see caliber arguments as a silly distraction for new shooters when most people don't cover the basics above. All things being the same, I vote for .40 as a balance of capacity and power.

Not that energy numbers look any better at 7 yards, but if you are firing from a handgun at 50 yards you will be far more worried about the incoming murder charge (if you even hit anything). Speaking about self defense, you likely aren't going to be in a life or death situation with an attacker at 50 yards where evasion would not be more logical (and lawful) course of action.

  PigFish said:

Like all things in this world there are trade offs. I will choose to use a high performance cartridge over a low performance one even if it mean I get to miss less!!!! Many places do not allow you to shoot large game with .22 caliber cartridges (not 22 rimfire). Why? Because even at the 3000 to 4000 FPS velocities of the 220 Swift or the 22-250 and others, statistically the cartridges don't perform well enough to provide humane one shot kills leading to lost game. Bullet velocity is not everything... terminal energy IS. Bullets must penetrate, they must also carry enough energy downrange to fully expand and impart massive tissue damage in order to reliably make a fatal shot an incapacitating shot.

There is a difference between a fatal shot and and incapacitating shot. Ask anyone in law enforcement or the military who has had return fire from an injured target that later died!

I just don't think there is much real world performance difference between 9mm and .40/45. A ribcage isn't going to stop a pointy projectile traveling at 800+ feet per second and anything 9mm or over is going to create a pretty nasty wound when it expands.

And on your second point, I'd believe that the law man failed to hit a major artery or organ by a lot more than the .05" difference in the radius of his round.

[Fuzz]

  PigFish said:

What would you rather shoot if the guy is shooting back?

Only one choice... this puppy!!

[tugboat]

I own a Glock 23 .40 caliber which is about the same gun as the Glock 19 .9mm,

I like it but am not proficient with it enough to give an opinion. My H&K P30 in 9mm is my favorite. Feels good in the hand and could shoot it all day although just a little heavy for a 9mm. I’ve got a 1911 .45 and some .22 pistols but my night stand pistol is my Sig Sauer P232 .380 ACP. Light, short and quick on the target. If that won’t stop them than I’ll go straight for my JP-15 in .223 with a custom ACOG with a JP reticle on top, Bipod and a M4-2000 Silencer on the end of it.

[NitrousPurger]

my dad has the baby glock 26 (9mm) and he always says bigger calibers are for people that dont know how to shoot LOL