Cuba must compensate US before embargo is lifted: lawmaker

[Jimmy2]

WASHINGTON (AFP) – Cuba must pay the United States six billion dollars in compensation for expropriated businesses and property before Washington lifts a decades-old trade embargo, a US lawmaker said Thursday.

"We must resolve the over six billion dollars in expropriation claims... before developing a more robust economic relationship with a post-Castro democratic government in Cuba," said Kevin Brady, a Republican US representative from the state of Texas, speaking at a congressional hearing on US trade with Cuba.

Brady's remarks come after a top Cuban official last week challenged the United States to lift its punishing economic embargo against Havana.

Cuba's National Assembly president Ricardo Alarcon pressed Washington to "lift it, even for a year, to see whether it is in our interest or theirs."

After coming to power in 1959, Cuban leader Fidel Castro nationalized numerous US enterprises in the name of the communist revolution.

In 1972, the value of Cuba's expropriated US property was estimated to be worth about 1.8 billion dollars, according to a US government panel that examined the issue.

That sum has grown more than three-fold over the years because of compounding interest, set at an annual rate of six percent.

The Foreign Claims Settlement Commission of the United States (FCSC), the independent, quasi-judicial federal agency under the aegis of the US Department of Justice, is tasked with determining the monetary value of claims by US nationals for loss of overseas property as a result of nationalization or military operations.

At Thursday's hearing, the US Chamber of Commerce and non-governmental organizations including the Washington Office on Latin America (WOLA) argued in favor of relaxing trade restrictions against Havana.

Brady said he was "open to loosening some restrictions on Cuba," but only after the US government and private American interests divested of their property after the revolution were compensated.

President Barack Obama came into office seeking better relations with Cuba, but after an initial thaw, tensions have set in again, most recently over Cuba's treatment of dissidents

[LeafLover]

Ahhh.....there's the rub and the deal breaker.

[StumpyJoe]

Yup...there's the rub...

[Ken Gargett]

people like that don't deserve oxygen. just where is cuba going to get 6 billion dollars? and shame on anyone for voting a braindead moron like that into power, though we certainly have more than our fair share of elected idiots over here.

aside from the stupidity of it all, would set an interesting precedent. presumably he'd be the first to insist the states cough up for any claims against it.

[Colt45]

people like that don't deserve oxygen. just where is cuba going to get 6 billion dollars? and shame on anyone for voting a braindead moron like that into power, though we certainly have more than our fair share of elected idiots over here.

aside from the stupidity of it all, would set an interesting precedent. presumably he'd be the first to insist the states cough up for any claims against it.

K. Gargett - poster child for playing the ball and not the man........

[zuma]

Oh boy... that fellow does not realise that were there to be real justice, there would also be innumerable claims for restitution for damages done by the US and its pals and puppets (as well as other "powers")... but then, he perhaps perceives that under the current system, "justice" is only an illusion imposed by the strongest... perhaps like the smoking section in TAROM flights of the very early 90's, "this seat is smoking, this one next to it its not smoking... that one is smoking..." and, believe me, you would not want to argue with the scary looking crew.

[Ken Gargett]

K. Gargett - poster child for playing the ball and not the man........

if voters didn't give power to morons then one would not need to 'play the man'. sadly, when imbecilic politicians come up with nonsense like this, one is forced to look at the dills making those decisions/comments. if there is a vote or a buck in it for the politician then forget about anyone doing the right thing.

and zuma backs up the other point i made above. the problem is (sorry, one of the many problems) that too many politicians have a god complex and fail to think things through. also, the old, we can do no wrong and the other mob is always wrong seems to be apparent here.

[Colt45]

if voters didn't give power to morons then one would not need to 'play the man'. sadly, when imbecilic politicians come up with nonsense like this, one is forced to look at the dills making those decisions/comments. if there is a vote or a buck in it for the politician then forget about anyone doing the right thing.

and zuma backs up the other point i made above. the problem is (sorry, one of the many problems) that too many politicians have a god complex and fail to think things through. also, the old, we can do no wrong and the other mob is always wrong seems to be apparent here.

Sometimes you can call it catching.......

Only slightly more seriously, do you honestly believe everything you read on the internet?

[Ken Gargett]

Sometimes you can call it catching.......

Only slightly more seriously, do you honestly believe everything you read on the internet?

certainly not but i do believe politicians are more stupid and more perfidioud than even i usually give them credit for. and anything they come up with

[PigFish]

certainly not but i do believe politicians are more stupid and more perfidioud than even i usually give them credit for. and anything they come up with

While I don't often take politicians' opinions as my own and I am not going to defend this one, I have to ask you this Ken on an academic level; if I stripped you of your livelihood and property by force of impending tyrannical slavery would you be pissed about it and perhaps want some retribution?

While you accuse the politician of not thinking it through, do you not realize that there were certainly damaged parties as a result of the Cuban revolution? The Castro government is not exactly about human rights, peace and freedom! Is theft a crime? Is nationalism theft. Were property holders not robbed by a violent means, causing both loss of life and property as a result of the Cuban revolution? While I understand that the current conditions in Cuba certainly pull at your heart strings I ask you too; think it through! Or perhaps the human rights violations of the Castro regime has simply run past its statute of limitations.

Best amigo, R

[Ken Gargett]

While I don't often take politicians' opinions as my own and I am not going to defend this one, I have to ask you this Ken on an academic level; if I stripped you of your livelihood and property by force of impending tyrannical slavery would you be pissed about it and perhaps want some retribution?

While you accuse the politician of not thinking it through, do you not realize that there were certainly damaged parties as a result of the Cuban revolution? The Castro government is not exactly about human rights, peace and freedom! Is theft a crime? Is nationalism theft. Were property holders not robbed by a violent means, causing both loss of life and property as a result of the Cuban revolution? While I understand that the current conditions in Cuba certainly pull at your heart strings I ask you too; think it through! Or perhaps the human rights violations of the Castro regime has simply run past its statute of limitations.

Best amigo, R

ray, i understand that feeling but it is 50 years ago. does this run forever and if it does, then as touched on above, there are plenty of nations that may feel they have a case for some form of reparation from the states - and no doubt many other countries. i would never condone the actions of castro and the hurt it has caused - do we go further and work out what batista did and who benefited illegally/immorally from his actions and expect payment there.

ideally, castro and his cronies would have been those punished but to try and rectify this now simply causes untold suffering for an already poor people. if jose is around, love your take on what would be the impact of cuba having to find $6 billion to pay the states.

all that said, my original comment related to the stupidity of expecting cuba to come up with $6 billion. this bloke is so out of touch with reality if he thinks they can do that - and then think of the enormous pain it would cause 90% of cubans if their country had to find that sort of dosh.

and who gets it? how the hell do you work that out? there may be some cases where the individuals are still with us but most will be descendents. and i'd suggest that the vast majority have lived far better lives and done much better than if they had remained in cuba, though granted that is not a decision that should be forced on anyone. what of the corporate situation? how many of those will be in the same form as 50 years ago?

or is it just to go to the usa's coffers so fat bankers can piss it against the walls of toilets in expensive restaurants.

[mazolaman]

How far back do we go?

Do we British pay money to all the original inhabitants of the colonies we took?

Does the US pay the Africans they enslaved,or the Native Americans?

Do the Italians pay for the inconvenience of the Roman Empire?

Or,Does the US also pay for all the trade Cuba was unable to due to the US leaning on anyone who tried to do business with them,which sadly worsened under G W Bush?

A ridiculous revisionist statement.

[korryp]

The US keeps paying the Indians for lands taken well over 50 years ago.

[Ken Gargett]

The US keeps paying the Indians for lands taken well over 50 years ago.

surely that is an internal matter which makes it a bit different.

[El Presidente]

There will be no compensation. Cuba doesn't have the dollars nor the intention.

As for the "right" to be compensated. Draw a long bow and almost every major OECD country would be paying someone for atrocities and blunders over the past 50 years.

[MontrealRon]

A really close anology to the question of the losses suffered by the Cuban exiles

is that suffered by the United Empire Loyalists -

those who remained loyal to the Crown, and to the "legitimate" governments of the thirteen colonies.

Forced to flee the American Revolution, as they were considered traitors,

they crossed the border into Canada, where they settled, mostly in what is now Ontario.

Lands, houses and businesses were abandoned, without compensation, of course.

Perhaps it is time to press a claim;

imagine 200+ years of compound interest at 6%!

[Mel]

I've heard you can't get blood out of a turnip I bet the same goes for the Cuba and billions. The country with the most mature leaders need to step up and let the past go, start a new begining and move the hell on. Looks like no mature leader exsist.

[PigFish]

A really close anology to the question of the losses suffered by the Cuban exiles

is that suffered by the United Empire Loyalists -

those who remained loyal to the Crown, and to the "legitimate" governments of the thirteen colonies.

Forced to flee the American Revolution, as they were considered traitors,

they crossed the border into Canada, where they settled, mostly in what is now Ontario.

Lands, houses and businesses were abandoned, without compensation, of course.

Perhaps it is time to press a claim;

imagine 200+ years of compound interest at 6%!

I am behind in my history as is but this interests me. Have any reference material titles on hand about this? Might make for some interesting reading. Thanks, R

[ChanceSchmerr]

I am behind in my history as is but this interests me. Have any reference material titles on hand about this? Might make for some interesting reading. Thanks, R

Standard High school history lesson for Canadians.......but I personally don't recall reading any great books on the subject, although MontrealRon may know a few that will interest you, Ray.

The Loyalists have a highway named after them near Kingston, Ontario. Thats about all I remember about them, besides the basics that Ron already detailed. Also, they were spread out too, not just in Ontario, but also in Maritime provinces as well, and a few in Quebec.

[PigFish]

ray, i understand that feeling but it is 50 years ago. does this run forever and if it does, then as touched on above, there are plenty of nations that may feel they have a case for some form of reparation from the states - and no doubt many other countries. i would never condone the actions of castro and the hurt it has caused - do we go further and work out what batista did and who benefited illegally/immorally from his actions and expect payment there.

ideally, castro and his cronies would have been those punished but to try and rectify this now simply causes untold suffering for an already poor people. if jose is around, love your take on what would be the impact of cuba having to find $6 billion to pay the states.

all that said, my original comment related to the stupidity of expecting cuba to come up with $6 billion. this bloke is so out of touch with reality if he thinks they can do that - and then think of the enormous pain it would cause 90% of cubans if their country had to find that sort of dosh.

and who gets it? how the hell do you work that out? there may be some cases where the individuals are still with us but most will be descendents. and i'd suggest that the vast majority have lived far better lives and done much better than if they had remained in cuba, though granted that is not a decision that should be forced on anyone. what of the corporate situation? how many of those will be in the same form as 50 years ago?

or is it just to go to the usa's coffers so fat bankers can piss it against the walls of toilets in expensive restaurants.

Good reply amigo!

My point Ken was not at all the support of the bases of claim but that of my own willingness to look at all parties and not take the familiar side. I think there are a lot of damaged parties in the Cuban book of strife. I am not willing to discount the Cuban Americans simply because they are in fact now Cuban Americans. I also understand the opportunity aspects and think I can identify the clear losing party; you are pretty consistent in your support of the underdog.

I guess this is after all a Cuban problem and not an American problem in my view. The Cuban Americans have rallied an ally in that of this congressman and I suppose there is not much else for me to say about it. In a world where everyones' government is ******* someone there is enough criticism to go around for all of them.

I do find it interesting however that there is an underlying assumption that loose cash in the form of 6 billion would find its way into the hands of the Cuban people over that of its despotic tyrant. That 6 billion would do the Cubans a lot of good, I don't deny it. And if it were to be paid I am certain it would likely come from the hides of hard working Cubans and not the regime that runs the place. If they actually had the ability to acquire the money we can certainly debate how many Cuban on the street would benefit from it.

Who can say for sure what the Castro regime has in the form of material wealth? Wealth that would certainly ease the pains of their countrymen. This is supposed to be a collective state after all. I would love to see the Castro family coffers disclosed for the world to see. I think the Castros are more into the "how can they collect" aspect of collectivism!

Cheers Mate. -R

[Ken Gargett]

Good reply amigo!

My point Ken was not at all the support of the bases of claim but that of my own willingness to look at all parties and not take the familiar side. I think there are a lot of damaged parties in the Cuban book of strife. I am not willing to discount the Cuban Americans simply because they are in fact now Cuban Americans. I also understand the opportunity aspects and think I can identify the clear losing party; you are pretty consistent in your support of the underdog.

I guess this is after all a Cuban problem and not an American problem in my view. The Cuban Americans have rallied an ally in that of this congressman and I suppose there is not much else for me to say about it. In a world where everyones' government is ******* someone there is enough criticism to go around for all of them.

I do find it interesting however that there is an underlying assumption that loose cash in the form of 6 billion would find its way into the hands of the Cuban people over that of its despotic tyrant. That 6 billion would do the Cubans a lot of good, I don't deny it. And if it were to be paid I am certain it would likely come from the hides of hard working Cubans and not the regime that runs the place. If they actually had the ability to acquire the money we can certainly debate how many Cuban on the street would benefit from it.

Who can say for sure what the Castro regime has in the form of material wealth? Wealth that would certainly ease the pains of their countrymen. This is supposed to be a collective state after all. I would love to see the Castro family coffers disclosed for the world to see. I think the Castros are more into the "how can they collect" aspect of collectivism!

Cheers Mate. -R

hi ray, at an airport so no time to address all but i don't think anyone would ever assume that the 6 bill would find its way to the cuban people, more that if they had to cough up, it would come from them.

as for castro, it was always fascinating discussing this with locals, and even with those unhappy/opposed to the regime (and in varying degrees, this was just about everyone), some were convinced that castro was among the richest men on the planet, others that he had nothing. queswtioned on this, he might technically have nothing but he had access to anything in cuba and didn't need anything. but when did you ever see a poor dictator? at least a successful one.

[LowKey]

You can bet this lawmarker has a personal family claim within that 6 billion. Perhaps someone down his bloodline lost property due to nationalization. One most question, Why else would he be involved?

I find these financial stipulations laughable! 6 billion lol.