JLP's - Do you smoke 'em?

[jdbrown]

After reading this thread yesterday I decided to smoke a JLP Petit Cazadore. Salt of the earth and a real decent smoke. Rather have them than a dried up Rocky Patel that made CA top 25 list

[Colt45]

Now, I'm looking forward to exploring all these second tier Habanos made for blue-collar folks like myself, the cigars most 'aficionados' ignore. They ignore them by giving them no words, good or bad.

Obviously, I can only speak for myself.....

I am not a daily smoker, and smoke for flavor and enjoyment. I've always tried to put quality above quantity, and like many with an ever tightening

budget, this makes the quality aspect that much more important to me. I'd much rather smoke far less often and fully enjoy it than smoke every

day just to have a cigar hanging out of my mouth.

So, my own focus is to acquire really great cigars as I am able, pretty much knowing I'll enjoy the experience. As we all know, "value' is fairly subjective.

With regards to perlas, minutos, and even petit coronas, I personally do not consider these "budget" cigars. They only cost less because of their size -

you get less.

To use a wine analogy, there are plenty of alcoholic liquids closely resembling wine which can be had for much less than $10, but I'd rather spend

double and drink less, knowing I'll enjoy it far, far more. As an aside, Tigger will be doing a Quintero video review - I hear it's going to be a musical.

I'm hoping he'll do a double header and review a Guantanamera as well.

[thechenman]

Guantanamera? Tigger must have a death wish...

[axmncg]

Where does short filler come from, anyway?

I assume it is the chopped up scraps from various brands. Do we know which marcas' scrap tobacco goes into which TC brand?

The JLPs I've smoked are the Cazadores, Creamas, and Nacionales. Really enjoy them, but don't notice any difference between the sizes, as others have noted. Short filler tastes identical from frist puff to last, in my experience. How could short filler evolve?

In a related thread, El Prez referred to these budget smokes as the "Cheap and Cheerful". Being a daily "C&C" smoker, I would love to see a Forum dedidcated to these simple pleasures.

[demiurgic]

I forget how many people don't smoke 1-2 cigars a day like myself. If it's a chicos day, I'll easily put away 5-7 of them, while driving around, at the beach, etc, etc.

I'm reminded to ask something.

Where can I find out production numbers for marques and vitolas? For example, I read someplace that 20 odd milion Monte 4' are made in a year and only a few million Dip 4's (hopefully next year too, HSA boys haven't write back to my letter)

"cheap and cheerful", I like that. Rob could have been a word slingin' ad guy.

[Colt45]

"cheap and cheerful", I like that. Rob could have been a word slingin' ad guy.

Demi, Ron, et al, when RA gets back, bring up the budget cigar forum idea.

[tigger]

Guantanamera my backside!

[tigger]

And, no that wasn't some sort of bath house request...

[Colt45]

Guantanamera my backside!

And, no that wasn't some sort of bath house request...

I'm very, very thankful for the clarification, because I've no idea what guantanamera-ing is, but since we're friends and all.........

[MontrealRon]

Demi, far from jacking my thread, you are taking it exactly where I was hoping it would go!

Colt, I'm a guy who, after a stressful day at work, loves to wind down with a simple home-cooked meal (and I do the cooking around here), a couple of glasses of decent wine, and a cigar for dessert. While I have a well-stocked celler, the best wines are saved for more elaborate Sunday family dinners, when friends or other family members come over, when we are invited to dinner, or go with friends to a bring-your-own-wine restaurant.

Over the years, I have discovered many excellent wines in the $10-15 range, even here in Canada where taxes on alcohol (and tobacco!) are very high. These bottles can also be re-corked and enjoyed over 2 or 3 days, with no loss of quality.

A simple meal does not call for an old and complex wine, nor does it need one's best cigar to top it off.

Great pleasure can be found in simple things!

Tonight's cigar, just finished, was a Dec '08 JLP Brevas. Not bad at all.

By the way, I truly appreciate your encouragement as to the possibility of a seperate forum - "cheap and cheerful" does sound great.

Let's see where this can go.

[riderpride]

And, no that wasn't some sort of bath house request...

I'm with Colt on this one; thanks for the clarification!

[Colt45]

Over the years, I have discovered many excellent wines in the $10-15 range.......

Ron, I hope I have not been misleading - most of the wine I drink is in the sub-$20 range, and part of my enjoyment comes from finding what I

would personally call great values. I'm only able to imbibe on weekends, and consider my "value" wines very good regardless of price, and have

no problem sharing them. (I totally understand your point - just trying to express mine).

As for the main point of this thread, we're all just having a conversation. As hard as I try to properly articulate my thoughts here, I don't think I

always succeed - but I put forth my thoughts and live with my posts. The forum lives and breathes by it's members, both older and newer. Rob

has given us a direction, and it's up to all participating members to try and keep things on course

And then there's Ken..........

[MontrealRon]

As for the main point of this thread, we're all just having a conversation.

Exactly, Colt, and I, for one, am enjoying it thoroughly.

This is how we get to know each other as human beings,

rather than just another faceless handle with certain opinions about cigars.

Perhaps one day we might have the fortune to meet face to face

(I could have said in the flesh, but didn't. See above...),

but if we never do, at least here we are all brothers.

And then there's Ken..........

True..........

[riderpride]

Just wondering where the line would be drawn. Aside from Guantanamera, JLP, Quintero, and FdC, what would be considered a budget, or 'second tier' cigar? $5 a stick and under?

[MontrealRon]

Just wondering where the line would be drawn. Aside from Guantanamera, JLP, Quintero, and FdC, what would be considered a budget, or 'second tier' cigar? $5 a stick and under?

In my opinion, price should have no relevance.

For one thing, prices can vary wildly according to our sources and locations.

I would exclude from consideration all cigars that were hand-made long filler before 2002.

So, no minutos, perlas, entreactos, etc.

Reviews and commentary on these cigars would remain in the existing forums.

Included would be all machine-made cigars prior to 2002, as well as their hand-finished variants;

their surviving post-2002 hand-made reincarnations; all Tripa Corta cigars;

and, perhaps, if we want to include the "third tier",

the current production of the ICT factory, all machine-made :

the Puritos, Clubs, and Minis, as well as the dreaded Guantanameras.

These products are not consider as "Habanos", nor are the "fourth tier",

the local market "peso cigars", yet all are 100% pure Cuban tobacco.

[Ken Gargett]

Ron, I hope I have not been misleading - most of the wine I drink is in the sub-$20 range, and part of my enjoyment comes from finding what I

would personally call great values. I'm only able to imbibe on weekends, and consider my "value" wines very good regardless of price, and have

no problem sharing them. (I totally understand your point - just trying to express mine).

As for the main point of this thread, we're all just having a conversation. As hard as I try to properly articulate my thoughts here, I don't think I

always succeed - but I put forth my thoughts and live with my posts. The forum lives and breathes by it's members, both older and newer. Rob

has given us a direction, and it's up to all participating members to try and keep things on course

And then there's Ken..........

and i was just about to say i was in complete agreement with you on these.

guys, you have to remember that when you post about smokes like this, rob gets all excited and insists we do a video on them. and that is tough going. so lots more posts about cohibas and partagas and sir winnies and so on. JLP's! you're killing me.

[MontrealRon]

and i was just about to say i was in complete agreement with you on these.

guys, you have to remember that when you post about smokes like this, rob gets all excited and insists we do a video on them. and that is tough going. so lots more posts about cohibas and partagas and sir winnies and so on. JLP's! you're killing me.

Sorry to pull you away from your vertical of Romanee-Conti,

but we're going to do a tasting of my Italian neighbor's home-made wine.

and you are invited!

[Ken Gargett]

Sorry to pull you away from your vertical of Romanee-Conti,

but we're going to do a tasting of my Italian neighbor's home-made wine.

and you are invited!

if only you were a couple of thousand clicks closer.

[demiurgic]

In my opinion, price should have no relevance.

For one thing, prices can vary wildly according to our sources and locations.

I would exclude from consideration all cigars that were hand-made long filler before 2002.

So, no minutos, perlas, entreactos, etc.

Reviews and commentary on these cigars would remain in the existing forums.

Included would be all machine-made cigars prior to 2002, as well as their hand-finished variants;

their surviving post-2002 hand-made reincarnations; all Tripa Corta cigars;

and, perhaps, if we want to include the "third tier",

the current production of the ICT factory, all machine-made :

the Puritos, Clubs, and Minis, as well as the dreaded Guantanameras.

These products are not consider as "Habanos", nor are the "fourth tier",

the local market "peso cigars", yet all are 100% pure Cuban tobacco.

If I were to make a mission statement for a brand new thread in FOH that is dedicated to budget cigars based on the ideas discussed above and in general, it would read something like

This thread is dedicated to the discussion, review of any Habanos product of Petit Corona size and smaller/thinnner made after 2002 and currently produced by H.S.A and supplied by Habanos retailers

JLP makes some sizes that are bigger like Brevas, and Cazadores, and we'll include those, sure.

And some may say, 'This mission statement makes the budget cigar category sound like a farce, and now we have second tier cigars like Partagas Habaneros mingling with a Trini Reyes in the same forum section, because a TR meets the maximum size requirements!'

However!, this keeps our conversation quite lively. It highlights an intrinsic concept that most people with some sort of a budget understand and apply to all shopping in general. Money paid for quality recieved.

Thus, a so called 'second tier' cigar's real value is revealed far more clearly against the backdrop of of our daily standards. Of cigars which ARE generally better and we know as popular, while always remaning within the specified cigar size 42 RG & under and a hair above 5 inches at most. Sure, standards may cost a bit more, and by including them, we get a richer texture and feel for a 'cheap and cheerful' overall.

Then you may ask, 'How did Demiurgic arrive at the Petit Corona vitola to determine what a Habanos 'budget' cigar is?'

1. Firstly, It encourages people to stop talking about fat cigars (period!).

2. Or longer cigars which may by skinny (to me, there exists an imbalance in this category anyway. One sees a relatively high sticker price for weight of tobacco offered. I understand that this happens because long skinnies are harder to make and require long leaves to be saved for them specially.) And what is left out that is close by to this vitola? Coronas and Lonsdales primarily. I dont think these sizes in Habanos are designed as budget or even have budge counter parts! like Petit Coronas and smaller/thinner vitolas do!

When I look at the H.S.A regular production cigar year 2010, Petit corona is the threshhold to larger cigars and smaller skinnier cigars have been on the decline, overall.

So this is why I think a Petit Corona vitola is the ultimate splurge for a budget smoker and anything under this umbrella, their daily fare.

Mahalo,

D

[MontrealRon]

If I were to make a mission statement for a brand new thread in FOH that is dedicated to budget cigars based on the ideas discussed above and in general, it would read something like

This thread is dedicated to the discussion, review of any Habanos product of Petit Corona size and smaller/thinnner made after 2002 and currently produced by H.S.A and supplied by Habanos retailers

JLP makes some sizes that are bigger like Brevas, and Cazadores, and we'll include those, sure.

And some may say, 'This mission statement makes the budget cigar category sound like a farce, and now we have second tier cigars like Partagas Habaneros mingling with a Trini Reyes in the same forum section, because a TR meets the maximum size requirements!'

However!, this keeps our conversation quite lively. It highlights an intrinsic concept that most people with some sort of a budget understand and apply to all shopping in general. Money paid for quality recieved.

Thus, a so called 'second tier' cigar's real value is revealed far more clearly against the backdrop of of our daily standards. Of cigars which ARE generally better and we know as popular, while always remaning within the specified cigar size 42 RG & under and a hair above 5 inches at most. Sure, standards may cost a bit more, and by including them, we get a richer texture and feel for a 'cheap and cheerful' overall.

Then you may ask, 'How did Demiurgic arrive at the Petit Corona vitola to determine what a Habanos 'budget' cigar is?'

1. Firstly, It encourages people to stop talking about fat cigars (period!).

2. Or longer cigars which may by skinny (to me, there exists an imbalance in this category anyway. One sees a relatively high sticker price for weight of tobacco offered. I understand that this happens because long skinnies are harder to make and require long leaves to be saved for them specially.) And what is left out that is close by to this vitola? Coronas and Lonsdales primarily. I dont think these sizes in Habanos are designed as budget or even have budge counter parts! like Petit Coronas and smaller/thinner vitolas do!

When I look at the H.S.A regular production cigar year 2010, Petit corona is the threshhold to larger cigars and smaller skinnier cigars have been on the decline, overall.

So this is why I think a Petit Corona vitola is the ultimate splurge for a budget smoker and anything under this umbrella, their daily fare.

Mahalo,

D

Frankly, Demi, with all due respect, I'm not sure that I understand the purpose of such a forum,

as you have defined it.

First, why a seperate forum dedicated to small cigars at all levels, bargain and luxury?

And what about the many 140 x 40 smokes, like Super Partagas, Quintero Brevas, etc.

If we go strictly by size, do they fit?

What about the PL Montecarlos, probably my favorite budget smokes, at 159 x 33?

Size being the only determinant, then why not a dedicated forum for Robustos only.

No doubt it would be more popular than the "cheap and cheerful".

The point is not to divide us into different corners by ring gague, or length,

but rather to bring more attention to the lower-end smokes,

so that those who have not tried them can get more info, commentary,

and encouragement to investigate for themselves.

And why the 2002 cutoff?

There are still machine-made cigars from 1995-2001 readily available from Europe,

in the budget price range of $75-150/box.

This window of opportunity will not stay open forever,

and our members might appreciate knowing more about them before they are gone.

Back in November, I did a review of one, a '98 Upmann Regalia.

Looking back over the last year, I found only two other reviews of cigars that might fit the category

as I defined it in my previous post - one for a PL Montecarlo, the other a Guantanamera Crystal.

My point, then, is that there is so little information on this site about budget-level cigars.

Anyone looking for guidance in this area might be better off elsewhere.

Yet there are many smokers, from newbies to old-timers, who, for one reason or another,

have limited funds available for cigars, and who would appreciate access to this information.

Concentrating it into a dedicated forum would greatly facilitate this access,

as well as encouraging members to participate by posting small reviews and commentary.

IMHO, this would be of greater service to the community than an extended thread on small cigars.

[stargazer14]

I'll agree with Ron on this one - if we did a "cheap and cheerful" area, it should not be limited it a size or class,

as "cheap and cheerful" will be different to different folks.

I enjoy trying to find a gem in the 'lesser' smokes, just as I appreciate a fine wine and enjoy searching for that experience in a $10 price.

Half of my humi is probably PC's.

I'm all for this idea on the forum.

[demiurgic]

Ron,

I was proposing an idea that made sense after looking at cigar retailer's sites I think are authentic and based on what they have to offer (cigar-czar being a good example) This is how the petit corona idea came up... since I rarely see Second Tier cigars sold everywhere, let alone older machine mades. Rare indeed.

however, I'm going to give way to more experiance in this area and I'm with you on this one. I feel we are trying to explore the same little known facets of Habanos.

[MontrealRon]

Ron,

I was proposing an idea that made sense after looking at cigar retailer's sites I think are authentic and based on what they have to offer (cigar-czar being a good example) This is how the petit corona idea came up... since I rarely see Second Tier cigars sold everywhere, let alone older machine mades. Rare indeed.

however, I'm going to give way to more experiance in this area and I'm with you on this one. I feel we are trying to explore the same little known facets of Habanos.

Thanks for your confidence, Demi.

Yes, I am sure that we are on the same page here,

which is to share knowledge on this rather overlooked,

yet stll important area of our mutual hobby.

I have already PM'd El Prez concerning this project,

and he is completely supportive.

Our new playground should be up and running in a couple of days or so.

[stargazer14]

Oh goody. A new place to play!

and we could break off into a new room called...

The CelloVein',

for those who love their Habanos wrapped in plastic.