character and consistency

[Stalebread]

I’ve been thinking about something (yes, I know that’s dangerous) that was sparked by a couple of other threads – one about NCs and one about Cuba cutting tobacco production.

OK, here goes.

Sometimes people use phrases like, “NCs are good but can’t really compare to a spot on name-your-marque Cuban cigar.” Or, “I still enjoy an NC but they can’t stand up to a CC that is on its game.” Rarely, and certainly not routinely, do I see anyone use qualifiers when talking about NCs – “I really like Ashton VSGs when they are spot on.” Maybe it’s because of their (alleged) consistency. I say “alleged” because I think all cigars a subject to a certain amount of inconsistency.

But what I’m wondering about is this: If the Cubans do whatever it takes to achieve consistency in construction and blend/flavor as in some of the non-Cuban cigars that we often compare them to, is there any danger of sacrificing character?

In other words, is there a trade-off, a potential trade-off, giving up character to achieve consistency?

Or still another way: Is there something inherent in the process of making Cuban cigars that leads both to the character that we prize and the inconsistency that we don’t?

See? I said it was dangerous.

[SamuraiJack]

Is there a trade-off currently? Yes. Do I think there has to be based on raw materials and other resources? No. I believe Habanos could be more consistent if they had to be. But business is business. To be consistent they would probably have to scrap more crops, hire more aggressively, etc.

I would hate to think that the very nature of the tobacco itself makes consistency impossible.

[Colt45]

As long as consistency wasn't a synonym for mediocrity, I believe it could only be a benefit - especially with regards to construction.

As for flavor, as long as a cigar has good flavor, as of late I do find myself looking forward to what nuances the next cigar from a

box might bring - but I suppose still within the framework of the marque.

Maybe like a jazz solo - able to go to the edge and perhaps step beyond, but still mainly within the framework of the composition.

[buster]

As for flavor, as long as a cigar has good flavor, as of late I do find myself looking forward to what nuances the next cigar from a

box might bring - but I suppose still within the framework of the marque.

Agreed, I feel the same way.

Maybe like a jazz solo - able to go to the edge and perhaps step beyond, but still mainly within the framework of the composition.

I rarely post "attaboy" replies, but that is a bloody brilliant analogy. Always enjoy your insights.

Rick

[MontrealRon]

Maybe like a jazz solo - able to go to the edge and perhaps step beyond, but still mainly within the framework of the composition.

Brilliant analogy!

As for consistancy, what do we really mean?

Consistant construction, sure, that would really be great.

Even with the introduction of draw machines,

we are still tossing plugged smokes.

As to consistancy of taste and style, is this what we really want?

do we want every Partagas cigar to have the same basic taste, even it were possible?

Should every Monty 2 taste like every other?

I'll take the jazz, thanks...

[thechenman]

Brilliant analogy!

As for consistancy, what do we really mean?

Consistant construction, sure, that would really be great.

Even with the introduction of draw machines,

we are still tossing plugged smokes.

As to consistancy of taste and style, is this what we really want?

do we want every Partagas cigar to have the same basic taste, even it were possible?

Should every Monty 2 taste like every other?

I'll take the jazz, thanks...

Taste can sometimes differ even among the best NCs and DRs from year to year. I think I would just settle for better quality construction. Yes...you won't get perfection 100% of the time, but the consistency and construction of NCs and DRs, I think are superior in terms of the number of plugged cigars I get out of a box.

[Habanos2000]

Since I'm one of the guys that mentioned the difference between spot on CC's and the usual NC's let me try to expand on that.

Last week I was with a friend in Phoenix that loves NC's and thinks CC's suck. I of course think the opposite. I brought along a couple BRC's from 2007 and he had 3 different Nicaraguan cigars. We lined them all up and compared side by side. In comparing the group I have to say the damn Royal Corona's let me down. Slightly bitter and not as full bodied as I had hoped and have had in the past. The Nicaraguan cigars he had were fine, nothing that would blow anyone's socks off, but slightly below medium body and smooth all the way through. Definately not complex. I ranked my Bolivar as a tie for 2nd amongst all 4 cigars we were evaluating. Which left me qualifying it as "when these cigars are good, they're damn good." But a lot of good that does when you're trying to prove a point.

I think it's possible that if your expectation level is lowered you can find yourself more happy or satisfied. I do have high expectations every time I light up a CC and consequently more often than not find myself maybe slightly disappointed if they're not performing "as they sometimes can". There's that damn qualifier again. But maybe it's because NC's are made to smoke right away and CC's need ageing?

So to answer Stalebread's question about sacrificing character for consistency, I don't think that's necessary. In my heart of hearts I have to think that the capitalisitic drive that's missing in Cuba somehow affects the consistency of their products. I don't doubt the love the farmers have for their work, or others in the industry I suppose, but in the end there are just so many reoccurring 'problems' that I can't contribute to anything other than people just doing their jobs without having the potential of achieving something tangible for going above and beyond what is the standard.

[Taino]

I think cuban tobacco is what makes the difference, terroir and genetics combined. Unfortunately inconsistency has been a trademark in the resent past of CC, but that has to do more with the system and politics than with some planed (or unplanned) strategy or something.

NC are more consistent because you have a factory owner, who is there every day, obsessed with quality, consistency, etc. The owner is smoking his cigars everyday, torcedores are more less well paid and live in a "normal" world, with "normal" incentives.

In Cuba everybody works for the state, they don't really do any money at all, regardless of their efforts, and people is desperate to know how/what are they going to bring home for dinner TODAY. And I remark "today" because they live in a day to day basis, they truly are desperate people.

So in my view nobody is deliberately sacrifying anything to get something else, cubans have the best tobacco in the world. Market makes NC cigars be consistently well made, period.

[bigfunkyg]

We have to accept that there will be some variability among cigars because we are dealing with naturally grown raw materials. However, consistency to me would be defined as a Brand and Vitolia having similar characteristics among boxes, batches, and years. Nothing is more frustrating that pulling out one cigar from a box and having it be a fantastic experience, and then going back to that box a week later and having a lackluster and uninspired experience. Similar statements could be made about the boxes of cigars within a year (e.g. having two boxes of the same cigar within the same year and same factory code, or even same year different factory code). The level of variability comes into play when the same is said about years. Some lines will eventually have not great years, but that doesn't mean that you should accept substandard cigars.

A connoisseur will accept this to a point but still demand a certain level of consistency over a period of years and learn to recognize great years when they see them. For example a connoisseur of CoRo's will buy boxes from many different years. He will accept that some years will be 90 scores and be very pleased when other years hit 94. However he will not accept when one year hits 82 and this will likely affect his decision to but more in the future especially if the occurrence is frequent.

The point is that a as batch sizes increase, the level of variability that must be accepted should increase but to a certain point.

The above refers to the less tangible characteristics of a cigar (i.e. balance, complexity, aging potential). This said I think that asking for more consistency in tangible properties (construction and draw) is not too much to ask and should be demanded by a experienced smoker.

Hope this can add somthing to the conversation!

G

[SamuraiJack]

I'd say CC's put me in a jazz trance http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com%2...v%3DbKwQ_zeRwEs

[Tampa1257]

Ever notice how Fat the NC's are getting to be able to achieve the "Character" and "Consistency"?

The Fatter the cigar, the easier it is to roll. The less qualified a roller needs to be to roll a cigar that smokes well. I would say that because real complex cigars are thinner ring gauge cigars, the higher the skill level is needed to roll a cigar.

NC's are guiding the market toward the fat ring gauge cigars to compensate for their lack of blending skill, tobacco, knowledge of blending and lack of excellent tobacco.

[anacostiakat]

Ever notice how Fat the NC's are getting to be able to achieve the "Character" and "Consistency"?

The Fatter the cigar, the easier it is to roll. The less qualified a roller needs to be to roll a cigar that smokes well. I would say that because real complex cigars are thinner ring gauge cigars, the higher the skill level is needed to roll a cigar.

NC's are guiding the market toward the fat ring gauge cigars to compensate for their lack of blending skill, tobacco, knowledge of blending and lack of excellent tobacco.

I agree about the market driven vitolas. I dont buy them. It is a double wammy.

All joking aside it is pretty annoying. Don't cha think?

[Kangaroo495]

The Fatter the cigar, the easier it is to roll.

Judging by the epic struggle I had with a Monte PE past night, it wouldn't seem this way.

Unless the guy who rolled it had two wooden spoons for hands... Then it would be understandable

[Stalebread]

As long as consistency wasn't a synonym for mediocrity, . . .

Yes. I like this distinction. Something to keep in mind.

[Stalebread]

. . .

NC's are guiding the market toward the fat ring gauge cigars to compensate for their lack of blending skill, tobacco, knowledge of blending and lack of excellent tobacco.

I dunno but it seems like that's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there.

Can the same logic be applied to the Cubans? To the extent that they are producing more large ring gauge cigars it means that they are trying to compensate for their lack of blending skills, etc.? (I don't really think so but if I carry your logic a step further, that's where I end up.)

Those cigar smokers in Europe and Asia who are buying large ring-gauge Cuban cigars are doing so because NCs are guiding the market?

Most importantly -- and the original question -- do you think there is any danger of Cuban cigars giving up something of their character if the focus is placed on making them more consistent?

And on a side note, Tampa, you're consistent support (I was going to say cheerleading but that conjures up some odd images.) of thin gauge cigars is one of the factors that influenced me to buy a box of Partagas SdC #2 from Czar. Smoked the first one from the box yesterday. Outstanding cigar. Thank you.

[thechenman]

I agree with Stalebread in that it is a pretty bold claim to say that the NCs tobacco companies are pushing larger ring gauge cigars on the public to compensate for their lack of skill in blending. I think that the average consumer should be smarter than a monkey. At least I hope so...it would be too scary if that were not so. Isn't it the consumer that dictates to the manufactuer what they want? You could put out all the large ring gauge NCs you want, but if the consumer didn't like it, they wouldn't buy it regardless of what they are told. A small percentage might, but not the vast majority. Trends change with time...thin ring gauge cigars just happen to be less popular now and large ring gauge cigars are in. Who knows for how long that will last? In the end though, it will be the consumer who decides that the thinner ring gauges offer better flavor, value or aesthetics, and the manufacturers will again follow suit. To steal a little from Jimmy (but not verbatim), "It's all about the money!"

[PigFish]

Ever notice how Fat the NC's are getting to be able to achieve the "Character" and "Consistency"?

The Fatter the cigar, the easier it is to roll. The less qualified a roller needs to be to roll a cigar that smokes well. I would say that because real complex cigars are thinner ring gauge cigars, the higher the skill level is needed to roll a cigar.

NC's are guiding the market toward the fat ring gauge cigars to compensate for their lack of blending skill, tobacco, knowledge of blending and lack of excellent tobacco.

Hear, hear! Did I just read that or type it?

Seeing that you are my alter ego, how could I argue? -Piggy