Cohiba Gran Reserva Press Release

[Van55]

"Rich fools" might be harsh. True, but harsh.

I guess my point is, that if people generally refused to pay these exorbitant prices for what it costs HSA 50 cents or less to produce, HSA would get the message. But so long as these items sell at the prices asked those of us who want to buy Cuban cigars at reasonable rates will suffer from the inflation. That, plus the fact that the farmers and rollers get nada from the obscene profits just pisses me off.

[habanablue]

Genuine excellence should be applauded. Crap dressed as excellence should be publically stoned.

The reason why FOH and Czars has the following it does. Great line Prez, wouldn't expect anything less!

[El Presidente]

"Rich fools" might be harsh. True, but harsh.

I guess my point is, that if people generally refused to pay these exorbitant prices for what it costs HSA 50 cents or less to produce, HSA would get the message. But so long as these items sell at the prices asked those of us who want to buy Cuban cigars at reasonable rates will suffer from the inflation. That, plus the fact that the farmers and rollers get nada from the obscene profits just pisses me off.

I love the irony. We seek cigar socialism, the Cubans...capitalism

There are no big dollars in this. 75000 cigars @ say $30 a cigar ( let's assume that price to Distributors who onsell to retailers like myself) $2,250,000 Gross return to HSA. Take out the biggies..packaging, cost of production, distribution and opportunity cost (set aside tobacco for 5 years and three year project planning). Let's be ruthless....$5 a cigar production (the boxes are pretty ). $375,000. Under $2 million return for the project. Excellent return on Investment but hardly high finance.

I don't begrudge HSA taking on a project like this as long as it meets its claims. Some LE's and the Opens are another thing entirely.

Surely there is room for genuine specialty super premiums as well as for bread and butter cigars. If they are semi efficient then HSA should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Enjoyed a bread and butter D4 this morning (June 08). Bloody excellent. A cigar that can be found and is affordable everywhere . There is something for everyone.

As an aside, the price increases have certainly hurt them in the hip pocket. The boycott of some LE's and Regionals has been underway for some time. I have a suspicion the penny has already dropped amongst some of the HSA hierachy who are questioning the ongoing viability of the strategy started at the begnning of the decade. There is still plenty of fallout to come as the geniuses who have got them to the probem where they find themselves today....are still running the place. This industry is never dull

[SethG]

I don't think their problem will ever be these pricey sticks. It's always going to be "market".

They exist in a closed-off society with soft money in a world that turns away from smokers more every week. It's harder to smoke, we get boxes in the mail covered in some sort of sticker that can't be torn off easily.

Who cares what we think? They ship 300-400 million cigars a year? Plus a zillion fakes? Not to the likes of us.

If they want to save themselves then they need to begin a worldwide marketing campaign paired around a 10 fold increase in the number of LCDH's. They need to get some push on popular culture and of course approach the US on the basis of the tax dollars we'll rake in.

Most importantly, they need to get in an American or European business expert that can improve QC and manufacturing processes and prepare them to ship more cigars and somewhat curtail the process of fakes.

[SethG]

And this talk of how much it costs them is silly. It doesn't cost them much of anything, it's soft currency. Everyone in their country is paid in funny-money and no portion of the cigar process (besides some sort of pesticide) has to be purchased with international hard currency. At least AFAIK.

[El Presidente]

And this talk of how much it costs them is silly. It doesn't cost them much of anything, it's soft currency. Everyone in their country is paid in funny-money and no portion of the cigar process (besides some sort of pesticide) has to be purchased with international hard currency. At least AFAIK.

Just to be fair Seth.

500M Euro investment. Hard currency.

Some others (Hard Currency)

Imperial (former Altadis) Staff.

Machinery. Drying barns, moisture chambers etc.

Factory refurbs (new ERDM and Partagas Renovation).

Tubes, bands, boxes, specialties packaging etc

Warehousing and offices (building, fittings and equipment).

International staff (wages, travel, accom).

International and domestic promotions

Pesticides, fuel, irrigation supplies (pipes, pumps etc). Everything major is imported.

[kanuna]

These look very nice and tasty and the box is awesome also due to the fact I like black. Prez, will this be a first come first serve?

[El Presidente]

These look very nice and tasty and the box is awesome also due to the fact I like black. Prez, will this be a first come first serve?

We have a sizeable list waiting Kanuna so it s not first in first serve.

Once we know what quantities and final price we will notify all members on the list for a confirmation.

I am very much hoping we will be in a position to do at least one single for all that do want one. Unfortunately I will not know until Tuesday what I will be allocated (1 box 10/20 boxes) or whether the allocation will be immediate or over a couple of months.

I will know more when by the end of next week.

[Guest rob]

Van, with no intention of condescending your point - but I, and most here, do actually agree with you that the price of these items is exorbitant... but the same thing happens right through our world. It's just a matter of what we (the buying community) perceive as importance between:

* Value for money.

* Desirability.

* Exclusivity.

Coffee that costs 30 cents to produce... that we pay $3 for.

Jeans that cost $300... yet contain no more denim than those that can be bought for $30

Sunglasses, leather products, wines... you get the point.

Sure, any group of people can finally decide "enough is enough"... and make their protest by not buying the products.

But as Ayala alluded - so long as the market want the items, the manufacturers and producers have the right to charge what the market will bear. If their products don't sell they must adjust their thinking or failure is imminent... but if it sells out they will wish they charged more.

It does not justify the rip off.... it's just the way it is... and will always be.

For the record - I have made my protest with ELs... as long as they remain poor in quality and high on price I will not buy them. Same goes for any cigar regardless of it's band.

But, if these new Cohibas are as good as reported... then I'm in for them. I may be a sucker.. but so be it.

And Colt... lol nice pick up there, mate. Good to see our mods doing their jobs.

[Ozz1113]

Anybody in the New York area want to do a box split? I only want like one or twoishh :/

Yep...

[PigFish]

Being a capitalist Pig(gy) at heart, I cannot deny a for profit organization for price gouging... that is life. I recognize it for what it is, and while it allows a certain consumer to prove he has money to burn, more than I do at least, they won't be gouging me because I won't buy any. Yes it is a shame. I, as many of you, would enjoy trying what our favorite cigar company considers the best they have to offer. As far as obsene profits are concerned... go for it! But lets be fair, if you are going to consider this cigar as the priceless holy grail then you understand that different cigars have different profit potential and I ask you to stop canceling my favorites that have a lesser profit potential. By making these and pricing them accordingly you do admit in understanding that different cigars have different profit potentials, don't you? Make more of these!!!! Price them accordingly. Let the reckless rich pay dearly for their socially stratified once a year smoking experience. Just don't ignore the guy like me who wants to smoke a good cigar everyday. But why stop at $100 a stick? Make a $1000 dollar a stick cigar! Hell, some fool will feel good about buying it and smoking it. He will even tell himself it tastes good, even if it tastes like ****!

For those of you who are pissed at the price, I urge you don't be! Understand that some fool is subsidizing your smoking and be happy about it!!! Hell, I am.

Knowing what I know, I will find some consolation in my wisdom and my own experience. Habanos has a reputation for botching, overcharging and delivering inferior products that they call specialties. I have the knowledge and experience necessary to keep me from buying these and then being correspondingly disappointed by them.

So perhaps I will light up a original release Siglo 6, bullshit myself into believing it is the same thing, save the hundred bucks and get a good performer as Jesuscookies has suggested!

My last thought. Why when I look at the pictures do I think that these guys used the same photographer as the guys that take the McDonald's BigMac promo photos? I have never seen either BigMac nor Cuban cigar that looks as good! At a hundred a stick... this Cuban cigar connoisseur, consumer and collector becomes a seller and not a buyer!

Thanks for reading... - the Big Pig!

[Colt45]

I fall on the side of Ayala and the pros on this one - I don't think it foolish at all, as long as HSA makes sure the cigars are as billed,

and stand behind every box.

I think the wine analogy is especially pertinent. Were it within my means, I'd have absolutely no guilt about buying and drinking the best of

the best whenever it became available to me, though I would of course continue buying and drinking my "every day" faves.

If it turns out that these cigars are produced at the expense of regular production cigars, in the end that will be HSA's cross to bear. So,

if these cigars live up to their billing, were within my means, and a box were available, I'd strongly consider it - except for one thing -

the format is a turn off for me.

If they had chosen to produce esplendidos instead of sig VIs, I'd find them much more desirable.

[mbrody]

Looking forward to these coming in and watching a Video Re-Review. If they blow the boys away again, I will really be up for getting a box instead of singles. It's very interesting reading everyone's opinion on this topic. I find it fun. Such polarizing responses. Reading between the lines is even more fun. What a topic!

[blooz4u]

I'm in for 3 !!

[Ken Gargett]

If the blend is the same as the Havana examples I have no problem on price. The finest cigars I have had this decade were Dunhill Cabinetta's. That was until the Cohiba Gran Reserva. I paid $150 for my last Dunhill Cabinetta as a single. Trust me, I don't do that everyday.

There are $10 wines, $30 dollar wines, $70 dollar wines, $300 wines and $3000 wines. People choose what they can afford and occasionally may buy a great bottle for a special occasion. I can't see any difference here. HSA never made a secret that these were going to be anything but super expensive but perhaps the best ever made. News reported from Havana was $100 a cigar in Feb. I am lost as to why people are shooting them now. I get pissed when they hide pricing to the last minute (09 LE's) and then throw a 50% premium on a shorter Belicoso which is not as good as its cheaper larger brethren. That makes my blood boil. I will be angry if this general release is not the 99/100 point cigar I had previously. If it is as good (99/100) then really...I just couldn't care what they charged. I will only have one every six months to a year anyway but would look forward to the ultimate treat.

I wouldn't be too concerned that these will not sell. Every dealer in the world has a list a mile long for them. A lot of that comes just from those who went to the Habanos Festival (1400 cigar enthusiasts) who put their name down for a box after trying them. I don't know anyone who didin't.

Genuine excellence should be applauded. Crap dressed as excellence should be publically stoned.

agree with much of this. i am very keen to try one (less keen to hand one over to rob for a very lucky bet). the only comment is with the $3000 wines, to continue the analogy, is that there is actually almost none that are released at that price - they get there on reputation in the secondary market because they are that good.

two very rare exceptions are DRC's romanee conti (every year) and krug's latest release ambonnay 1995. what is interesting is that romanee conti has built its reputation over many years and comes from what is for me, the greatest winemakers on the planet. an analogy here would be if say the cohiba esplendido (top performer and arguably their flagship) had been so good year after year and such small production etc that there was way more demand for it than could ever be suppplied, even if it was at say $200 a stick.

krug is, again for me, the greatest of all the champagne houses, but this was a first release - so much more in common with this cigar. great producer with a new product. it was selling at around A$5000 a bottle on release and no problem selling out. if i had that sort of dish, i'd be more inclined to spend it on something with the credibility and reputation of romanee conti (and by god, they are good) but i sure as hell would want to try the krug. sadly, that sort of dosh escapes me.

[Ken Gargett]

Looking forward to these coming in and watching a Video Re-Review. If they blow the boys away again, I will really be up for getting a box instead of singles. It's very interesting reading everyone's opinion on this topic. I find it fun. Such polarizing responses. Reading between the lines is even more fun. What a topic!

and may i say that i think it essential that they be revisited for the vid. but not for a few weeks (rob, available late october and if they are as good as everyone seems to think, i suspect that they are zacapa xo-worthy).

[Colt45]

KG, part of the point - DRC has earned it's reputation, and you can be fairly assured of the quality of the wine within the bottle.

Not so much with HSA - without some kind of guarantee, the production C GRs could be considered a bit of a crapshoot.

[Ken Gargett]

KG, part of the point - DRC has earned it's reputation, and you can be fairly assured of the quality of the wine within the bottle.

Not so much with HSA - without some kind of guarantee, the production C GRs could be considered a bit of a crapshoot.

colt, i guess that is sort of what i was trying to get to. you can say that cohiba has earned its reputation, as indeed has krug, but no guarantees of the brand new stick with no track record. ditto, the ambonnay 1995. that said, the krug (not that i have tasted it) apparently more than lived up to what one would expect.

but DRC does have the rep, as does r-conti.

[Yoruba Hacker]

Don't really get why some are so offended at the mere idea of a $100 cigar. Or the call for some mass boycott of all cigars over...I have no idea what the dollar figure is.

I also don't get the correlation between the manufacture of these 75000 expensive cigars, for example, and the imminent demise of the regular production stuff.

I don't get that wired up over the launch of a new Bentley or Audemars Piguet, but at the same time I don't think those who are buyers foolish. I like my regular Audi (versus top-end Bentley) just fine, and my cell phone is my watch, but I ain't mad at the guys who go the other route. Don't get me wrong, I'd buy a Maybach if I could, but I can't, so I won't. But God bless the guys who can and do. But I don't think the existence of a Maybach in any way threatens the future production of the C class.

There's plenty of regular production cigars to smoke at reasonable prices. How many of us smoke more than a fraction of the available marcas and vitolas under say, 15 bucks as it is? I know I don't. No matter how many over the top top end or special/limited/regional editions come out, there will always be more regular production offerings than I will ever smoke. No amount of $100 or $1000 or $10,000 cigars will change that.

If that's what you like to smoke, what's the problem?

They're only making 5000 boxes (as far as they say). I think Habanos has pretty well figured out these ain't for everybody. Was everyone this wound up over the original Behike's?

Ok. Bad example.

But you know what I'm saying.

[blooz4u]

Don't really get why some are so offended at the mere idea of a $100 cigar. Or the call for some mass boycott of all cigars over...I have no idea what the dollar figure is.

I also don't get the correlation between the manufacture of these 75000 expensive cigars, for example, and the imminent demise of the regular production stuff.

I don't get that wired up over the launch of a new Bentley or Audemars Piguet, but at the same time I don't think those who are buyers foolish. I like my regular Audi (versus top-end Bentley) just fine, and my cell phone is my watch, but I ain't mad at the guys who go the other route. Don't get me wrong, I'd buy a Maybach if I could, but I can't, so I won't. But God bless the guys who can and do. But I don't think the existence of a Maybach in any way threatens the future production of the C class.

There's plenty of regular production cigars to smoke at reasonable prices. How many of us smoke more than a fraction of the available marcas and vitolas under say, 15 bucks as it is? I know I don't. No matter how many over the top top end or special/limited/regional editions come out, there will always be more regular production offerings than I will ever smoke. No amount of $100 or $1000 or $10,000 cigars will change that.

If that's what you like to smoke, what's the problem?

They're only making 5000 boxes (as far as they say). I think Habanos has pretty well figured out these ain't for everybody. Was everyone this wound up over the original Behike's?

Ok. Bad example.

But you know what I'm saying.

Agreed. I'm not rich by any means either, and I'm not sure if I'd know how to "appreciate" a $100 cigar, other than smoke it!

I'm in the catagory of those who would pick up a few and save them for that "grand" or special occasion, whatever that may be

[PigFish]

agree with much of this. i am very keen to try one (less keen to hand one over to rob for a very lucky bet). the only comment is with the $3000 wines, to continue the analogy, is that there is actually almost none that are released at that price - they get there on reputation in the secondary market because they are that good.

two very rare exceptions are DRC's romanee conti (every year) and krug's latest release ambonnay 1995. what is interesting is that romanee conti has built its reputation over many years and comes from what is for me, the greatest winemakers on the planet. an analogy here would be if say the cohiba esplendido (top performer and arguably their flagship) had been so good year after year and such small production etc that there was way more demand for it than could ever be suppplied, even if it was at say $200 a stick.

krug is, again for me, the greatest of all the champagne houses, but this was a first release - so much more in common with this cigar. great producer with a new product. it was selling at around A$5000 a bottle on release and no problem selling out. if i had that sort of dish, i'd be more inclined to spend it on something with the credibility and reputation of romanee conti (and by god, they are good) but i sure as hell would want to try the krug. sadly, that sort of dosh escapes me.

I think that the gist of this is that price to performance correlation is proven first and market driven. A statement that I wholeheartedly agree with.

[Guest rob]

I think that the gist of this is that price to performance correlation is proven first and market driven. A statement that I wholeheartedly agree with.

The Penfolds Grange and Block releases and the Henshke Hill Of Grace (Australian super premiums wines) sell out within days of release.... every year. They generally have 95% of the stock allocated by pre-ordered customers prior to release.

Some vintages are stellar. Others are crap. Regardless, they still all sell out.

The statement you guys make makes total sense... but the mind of a consumer is not a rational and logical one. Performance and value for money is definitely not the key driver with these types of purchases.

You guys have been around the block enough times to know this is just the way it is...

[Ken Gargett]

The Penfolds Grange and Block releases and the Henshke Hill Of Grace (Australian super premiums wines) sell out within days of release.... every year. They generally have 95% of the stock allocated by pre-ordered customers prior to release.

Some vintages are stellar. Others are crap. Regardless, they still all sell out.

The statement you guys make makes total sense... but the mind of a consumer is not a rational and logical one. Performance and value for money is definitely not the key driver with these types of purchases.

You guys have been around the block enough times to know this is just the way it is...

could not agree more re this with both wines priced way above pure drinking value but other factors incorporated. that said, i would argue that it has been a long time since either have released anything that would be regarded as crap. some a little lesser (03 grange perhaps) but still very good wines.

[Guest rob]

i would argue that it has been a long time since either have released anything that would be regarded as crap. some a little lesser (03 grange perhaps) but still very good wines.

You get my point Gargett. Sigh....

Ok, exchange the word "crap" with "less than stellar".

[Colt45]

If I may add, many reputable wine producers will not release their top wines in a sub par year. They'll often use the best grapes of such

a vineyard for one of their "lower tier" wines. For me, this is another sign of how they view their product, of their thoughts on quality.

As mentioned, prices often increase due to high demand on a relatively small supply, but in the case of top houses, we can be fairly confident

of quality of the product.

At this point in time, I would not have the same confidence in a top dollar "top tier" Havana cigar. Some have done a "barrel tasting" of the

C GR - I'm interested in a tasting of the final production product.